There is a simple solution -
24 teams that play Prov QFs should have 'little to gain or lose; from the results -
Simply treat the next round of 2x16 as 'balanced' -
Both the Prov SF 16 and the TMC/Qual 16 (Rd 1) have an equal 2 chances going forward -
Problem solved !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2636 - 28/04/2015 18:34:39    1718662

The unbalance really only exists in the Ulster Championship.

First major Championship game: In Ulster Donegal v Tyrone will play on May 17th, and both need to peak on this date or else face an early qualifier bath. Compare this to other contenders for the All Ireland, and when they need to start peaking, and you will see the disadvantage for these two sides.

No seeding in Ulster: We see the reigning Ulster Champions playing one of Ulster's other tops sides in the Preliminary round!! With a the winner then facing another top side in the Quarter final.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 28/04/2015 19:22:52    1718675

It would be very hard to disagree with the sentiments of this article.

link

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 29/04/2015 08:22:52    1718769

The All Ireland Championship is indeed massively imbalanced, even leaving quality aside numbers competing in each province are not even similar. Time to rip the whole thing up and start with something freash.


My preference would be a Champions League style format with National League Division creating 4 seeding pots for groups of 4 - one from each division in each group - 8 groups in all with top two progressing to last 16 with group winners being seeded in draw where they can only meet other group runners up. Get to last 8 and it is open draw.

Simple but effective - gives us best chance of best teams being in last 8 and also gives all teams at least 3 championship games against teams of different standing. Could even work the group draw that the lowest division team gets two home games in the group stage including one against the top seed if you wanted to get creative and boost the occasions in these lesser counties.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 29/04/2015 10:05:16    1718796

Where are the motions at congress? One of many options in this endless debate is a Round of 16 with 50% representation from each province.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7893 - 29/04/2015 10:21:25    1718806

I like the cut of your jib Naysayer.

It's certainly worth a trial anyway. The provincials will hardly die a death if we forego them for one year!

It'd be intriguing for example instead of Dublin facing say, Westmeath in a half empty Croke Park they had to travel away to a full house Celtic Park to play Derry. They probably would still win but it'd spice it up a bit without doubt.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9171 - 29/04/2015 10:46:04    1718817

Naysayer , your idea has merits.The stronger Ulster teams wouldnt be penalised and would get a fair craic of the whip, There would be strong motivation for a county to get promoted so they could be seeded higher. But for the likes of Dublin ,Kerry ,Mayo it would make no difference to current set up. Which really is the crux of the problem.
We nearly already have a champions league set up in Leinster playing a div 2, div 3, div 4 ,team to win Leinster and then we get a provincial loser in the quarters. The Problem is Ulster teams dont get that opportunity.
The one thing i like about your idea is that a county wouldnt want to get relegated from Div 1.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 29/04/2015 11:21:50    1718836

AthCliath

How about the same format as Naysayer but with a weighted draw:

Groups seeded as follows:
Group 1 - two provincial winners, a beaten finalist and a beaten semi finalist - 3 to progress - winner has home draw in Quarters
Group 2 - one provincial winner, a beaten finalist and two beaten semi finalists - 2 to progress
Group 3 - one provincial winner, a beaten finalist and two beaten semi finalists - 2 to progress - best group 2/3
Group 4 - one beaten finalist and three beaten semi finalist - 1 to enter playoff v tommy murphy Runner up

Remaining Q final spot goes to Tommy Murphy cup winner

Q final draw:
Group 1 winner v Play off winner - group 1 winner chooses venue
Best record of Group 2 or 3 winner v Tommy Murphy cup winner - group 2/3 winner chooses venue
All other q finalist in open draw - matches in Croke Park

Plenty of big games and lots to play for.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1140 - 29/04/2015 12:14:34    1718856

Naysayer
County: Antrim
Posts: 1213

My preference would be a Champions League style format with National League Division creating 4 seeding pots for groups of 4 - one from each division in each group - 8 groups in all with top two progressing to last 16 with group winners being seeded in draw where they can only meet other group runners up. Get to last 8 and it is open draw.

Simple but effective - gives us best chance of best teams being in last 8 and also gives all teams at least 3 championship games against teams of different standing. Could even work the group draw that the lowest division team gets two home games in the group stage including one against the top seed if you wanted to get creative and boost the occasions in these lesser counties.

Good man naysayer. By managing the groups your proposal would also give added weight to the league fixtures.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 29/04/2015 12:40:13    1718871

Good man naysayer. By managing the groups your proposal would also give added weight to the league fixtures.

My thoughts too Muckross.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 29/04/2015 13:00:39    1718886

how about a WWF style Royal Rumble where all 34 Teams play in Croke Park and the last team standing wins? Each County would have a walk in Anthem played.

FairShoulder (Armagh) - Posts: 333 - 29/04/2015 13:19:19    1718901

Naysayer, your suggestion is really good. However I cannot see the provincial championships being done away with. It is a tricky one to figure out. Could the provincial championship be ran off first and then used as part of the group seedings?

JimTheLegend (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 29/04/2015 13:20:27    1718902

Apart from the obvious objections from the Provincial councils that want to retain their power (and money making potential) from control of their own competitions, it seems as though one of the biggest obstacles to going down the route of a groups of four/champions league type of format is the reluctance of the so called weaker counties to embrace the concept of a B, or C grade championship.
In this day and age teams should have to earn their right to compete for Sam. The easiest way to do that would be to run the groups of 4 as suggested, and let the top 2 teams in each group progress to compete for Sam. The 3rd placed teams could go into the B and the remaining 8 teams into the C.
The advantage of this would be to give every team at least 4 championship games (3 group + 1 knockout). This would hopefully encourage every team to look beyond their first fixture to a longer season. I mean, it must be tough for the likes of a Waterford footballer to face into early season training knowing a Cork or Kerry are waiting for them the first week in June. The GAA could further incentivise the weaker counties by giving the bottom ranked team in each group 2 home games (ideally against the 1st and 2nd seeds) and 1 away. I'm sure the attraction of a Dublin or Kerry or whoever playing in the likes of Carlow or Belfast would help to attract more supporters to these counties, and at the end of the group stages these Counties would still be facing into a competition they have a realistic chance of winning.
These competitions could be run on the same weekends as the 'Senior' series, and the finals could be played as a double header on the Saturday of the All Ireland weekend, which in itself would give more profile to both competitions, who knows, Sky might even show them live .
I really think the GAA has to do something to maintain and strengthen our Games in the weaker counties, rather than just let them plod along and hope they will be ok. It can't be a coincidence that games like rugby and soccer are making such progress in rural areas where the counties GAA teams are regarded as cannon fodder for the big guns every summer, and hopefully a reinvigorated championship system might help to bolster the GAA in these counties.
Its all too easy for self appointed experts to blame the money from sponsorship deals or the size of a Counties population for the disparity that exists between teams, but lazy analysis like that fails to address the real problems that exist in the GAA and the notion of dragging the best in any game back into the pack rather than helping the chasing pack to catch up is nonsensical in the extreme, and a typical begrudgers solution to a problem.
Hopefully the FRC will be able to make some progress on these matters, sooner rather than later, as it is in everyones interest to have a strong and vibrant GAA in every code.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 29/04/2015 13:29:05    1718906

The reason that the provincials will be kept is two fold.

1) The Munster Hurling Championship
2) The Ulster Football Championship

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13719 - 29/04/2015 13:38:41    1718908

The reason that the provincials will be kept is two fold.

1) The Munster Hurling Championship
2) The Ulster Football Championship

...and the money they generate for their provincial councils....

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 29/04/2015 13:41:49    1718910

AHP
County: Dublin
Posts: 48

...and the money they generate for their provincial councils....

Not so sure, I think that reason given is a bit of a red herring to be honest.

Money would probably be more centralised to the GAA if the provincial championships were abolished but the money would still be generated, perhaps even the provincial councils would end up abolished and a new system in place.

I think people over estimate how difficult it would be to get rid of the councils within the GAA, as it would probably only involve some restructuring of how things are run.

The biggest thing against is that Hurling people in Munster and football people in Ulster want to keep the status quo. I think the majority in other provinces would at least have a go at another system.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13719 - 29/04/2015 13:54:33    1718916

Mothball the McGrath, McKenna, O'Byrne and FBD for a year, play the provincials early as standalone competitions. Then implement the above suggestion. Great idea.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 29/04/2015 13:55:19    1718918

And can you see any county in Leinster abolishing the Leinster championship??? Not a hope, and why would they? It took over a hundred years for Westmeath to win one and so in a little over a decade they ate going to say ahh we will give up our only ever chance of winning a major competition same for Laois. Louth , Offaly. Less of the knee jerk reaction, Dublin are way ahead at present. That will change over the next few years.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/04/2015 14:05:31    1718924

I'm not sure playing a one off Ulster championship as a separate entity entirely to the AI series would work. There would have to be some incentive to do well in it with regard to the AI. Otherwise it'd just be a trumped up McKenna Cup competition. The league would obviously have to play some part also. It's a tricky bugger to resolve but definitely an idea worth pursuing.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9171 - 29/04/2015 14:12:17    1718929

What has hurling got to do with the football championship?

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 29/04/2015 14:15:51    1718931