Tinryland man,

Where did you get those figures from?

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 24/03/2015 10:55:13    1705934

Forget Rugby. why is this thread on a GAA forum? Lets be positive. Outside of the middle class nobody follows Leinster schools rugby. Take pride in the GAA! There is a problem with Soccer schools also. How about GAA schools and Soccer schools joining up to play tournament at Croker for example.
These are good days for Rugby. A good team and good supporters have brought them up to this. Don't panic lads

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2520 - 24/03/2015 11:00:47    1705936

You are a bit out of touch with them figures Tinry, there was less than 8000 at this year's final and last year's finals had one of the lowest attendances in many years. Close to 8000 is still a fine attendance of course, just a good way short of your 20000 figure. It's the most prestigious trophy in youth rugby in the country which explains the decent attendance.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 24/03/2015 11:13:31    1705941

24/03/2015 11:00:47
galwayford
Forget Rugby. why is this thread on a GAA forum? Lets be positive. Outside of the middle class nobody follows Leinster schools rugby. Take pride in the GAA! There is a problem with Soccer schools also. How about GAA schools and Soccer schools joining up to play tournament at Croker for example.
These are good days for Rugby. A good team and good supporters have brought them up to this. Don't panic lads Wrong to say nobody outside middle class follows schools rugby in Leinster. How is there a lack of pride being shown in the GAA?
What is the problem with soccer schools?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 24/03/2015 11:48:43    1705952

24/03/2015 08:23:02 hurlinspuds
Rugby is certainly elitist in Leinster. No it isn't. How is it when most people who play are from provincial towns etc or didn't attend a few fee paying schools
24/03/2015 09:54:31 daytona11
The fact that all bar one Leinster guy was privately schooled says all that needs to be said about the situation in Leinster.
Leinster town (Arklow, Gorey, Athy, Naas, Edenderry) might be located and play Rugby in Leinster but when it comes to the provincial team this is far more a Dublin 4 thing. wrong wrong wrong. How is only 1 leinster player not privately educated. Who is that sole player. There is plenty more than 1

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 24/03/2015 11:51:06    1705955

Seanie OBrien Ormond.

Work away, start naming them if there are more.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 24/03/2015 12:17:58    1705975

Ormond, rugby in Leinster is dominated by D4 which is the richest postcode in Ireland. Most of the big rugby schools in Dublin seem to me to be fee paying private schools. Maybe you could tell me how many schools in the more deprived areas of Dublin compete in this Leinster Schools cup competition?? Whether by accident or design, rugby in Dublin is still elitist.

I think there is little doubt that the GAA and soccer are far more inclusive than rugby in Dublin thanks to the people on the ground that run those organisations.
I would like to hear from people from the 6 counties as to how good the clubs up there are in welcoming nationalists to play. Are all rugby clubs up there pretty much made up of as many nationalists as unionists or do they have the same challenge as the GAA up there in encouraging numbers to come from the community that traditionally would not have played it??

My own experience of rugby in Munster is that they were very welcoming to anyone and everyone once rugby took off in the early 2000s. Before the Munster thing started they were probably welcoming as well but it was a niche kind of market.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/03/2015 12:19:18    1705977

In Cork, I would not say that rugby is elitist. It is noteworthy though that the bigger clubs are in the southside which may be considered more salubrious let's say. The northside of Cork has one club (technically outside the city). There soccer/GAA is king. Lots of Munster supporters though when they play. All fairly harmless.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 24/03/2015 12:42:16    1705995

24/03/2015 12:17:58 daytona11
Seanie OBrien Ormond.
Work away, start naming them if there are more.Tadhg Furlong, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Aaron Dundon are just those off top of my head and there is plenty more
24/03/2015 12:19:18 hurlinspuds
Ormond, rugby in Leinster is dominated by D4 which is the richest postcode in Ireland. Most of the big rugby schools in Dublin seem to me to be fee paying private schools. Maybe you could tell me how many schools in the more deprived areas of Dublin compete in this Leinster Schools cup competition?? Whether by accident or design, rugby in Dublin is still elitist.
I think there is little doubt that the GAA and soccer are far more inclusive than rugby in Dublin thanks to the people on the ground that run those organisations.
I would like to hear from people from the 6 counties as to how good the clubs up there are in welcoming nationalists to play. Are all rugby clubs up there pretty much made up of as many nationalists as unionists or do they have the same challenge as the GAA up there in encouraging numbers to come from the community that traditionally would not have played it??
My own experience of rugby in Munster is that they were very welcoming to anyone and everyone once rugby took off in the early 2000s. Before the Munster thing started they were probably welcoming as well but it was a niche kind of market.What do you define as more deprived areas of Dublin?
which rugby clubs/organisations have ever stopped anybody from playing the sport?
Again which clubs have ever, anywhere stopped people from joining/playing?
Most of the people who think rugby is elitist etc have never played or barely been in a rugby club in their life

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 24/03/2015 12:58:41    1706004

Hurling spuds,

Let's just say that in my experience us from the 3 are tolerated. That being the best word I can think of. How tommy bowe made it, I dont know. Bit like Leinster, right school and your laughing.

Bain (Donegal) - Posts: 470 - 24/03/2015 13:10:38    1706011

Ormo
Tadhg Furlong, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Aaron Dundon are just those off top of my head and there is plenty more
Rather amusingly the fact you have named 2 lads educated in Munster and 1 educated in New Zealand probably reinforces the point daytona was making.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 24/03/2015 13:34:34    1706022

Ha HA Ormond.

To be specific,

Name players born in Leinster and educated in Leinster that were in the public school system in secondary school.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 24/03/2015 14:08:39    1706039

What do you define as more deprived areas of Dublin?
Those areas where unemployment is high and social problems are rife and the average wage is lower than the national average. Do you want a definition of deprivation?? Maybe you don't know Dublin very well, there are plenty of deprived areas, none of them play schools rugby as far as I know.

which rugby clubs/organisations have ever stopped anybody from playing the sport?
To prevent someone from joining a club on the basis of their address or background would be illegal so it's no great achievement that rugby clubs don't do this. I was more talking about rugby schools if you look at my post again.

Again which clubs have ever, anywhere stopped people from joining/playing?
You can foster a spirit whereby people are made to feel welcome and you can go into their schools and communities and openly recruit or, you can stick to the already converted. There is no great achievement in not openly stopping people from playing.

Most of the people who think rugby is elitist etc have never played or barely been in a rugby club in their life
That's a nice generalization based on nothing but it doesn't stop the fact that schools rugby in Dublin is elitist and no effort is made to correct that as far as I know. Correct me if you know of great underage rugby work going on in a particular disadvantaged school. The Dublin under-16 hurling schools final could easily be contested by a school from a working class area and a school from a better off area. I think the GAA covers all strands of Irish society barring northern unionists, rugby has much improved but in Dublin and maybe Ulster still has a long, long way to go to be fully inclusive. Soccer obviously has its heartland in working class areas but is played and supported by everyone everywhere and is probably the most non-divisive sport in the country apart from the fact that two teams compete internationally and the clubs are divided along political lines in the north it seems.

"You're free to join if you like" is one thing but you need a lot more in order to properly be inclusive. Dublin schools rugby is, by every definition, elitist. Maybe the club rugby is more inclusive but I don't know enough about it to comment.
I don't think any sport should be applauded for not openly preventing people from joining their clubs.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/03/2015 14:11:14    1706041

Bain
County: Donegal
Posts: 304

1706011 Hurling spuds,

Let's just say that in my experience us from the 3 are tolerated. That being the best word I can think of. How tommy bowe made it, I dont know. Bit like Leinster, right school and your laughing.

If I got a job in Down tomorrow and was a big rugby fan could I stroll into whatever local club I was living beside in down with my big cork accent and there would be no tension and no issue?? I presume so??

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/03/2015 14:13:32    1706044

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 930

1706022
Ormo
Tadhg Furlong, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Aaron Dundon are just those off top of my head and there is plenty more
Rather amusingly the fact you have named 2 lads educated in Munster and 1 educated in New Zealand probably reinforces the point daytona was making.

That's priceless in fairness.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 24/03/2015 14:20:43    1706046

Is Roscrea a private school as well??

Ah here.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/03/2015 14:50:02    1706063

We all know that Tallaght,Clondalkin,Liberties etc have Rugby Clubs. The people in these clubs are doing excellent work providing an outlet for chaps to have an interest in something. As the people are in other countless town clubs across Leinster. This isn't a cut at them.

The point being made is that the "franchise" Leinter Rugby and D4tress is elitist. If you come from a private school and are upper or middle class you will have a much easier time making it. You will also be accepted into the club more.

Ormond I admire your passion for Rugby and your knowledge of the game. But sometimes you fail to accept the obvious.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 24/03/2015 15:09:19    1706068

It is laughable that Dublin posters on here are talking about rugby being elitist in Dublin . the GAA is everybit as much middle and upper class in the capital all its strongholds are generally in the leafy suburbs and GAA people in Dublin are the first ones to look down on the working class and care little about developing the games in these areas .

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 24/03/2015 15:33:35    1706085

Listen at the end of the day its all about the money. The big fee paying schools can hire professional rugby coaches to train the teams and invest in a group of young lads from 1st year to build them into a cup winning team over their time in the school. The fact that they live in the school most of the year helps this a lot. No matter how much they try non-fee paying schools cannot compete with that kind of investment. The reason these kids are the one that are snapped up by the provincial academies is because they are already semi Pro in their outlook on the game. Hence more of them break into the professional squads.

jpcampion (Laois) - Posts: 194 - 24/03/2015 15:35:48    1706088

We all know that Tallaght,Clondalkin,Liberties etc have Rugby Clubs.

I didn't know that. Do they compete in the AIL at a high level?? Where are the best clubs from?? Presumably from the places where school rugby is strong??

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/03/2015 15:40:44    1706092