18/11/2014 21:33:03 joncarter
Interesting to hear Mulligans reasons for retiring for a year. Putting a huge amount in and, in return, getting well beaten consistently has disheartened him (understandably). He has decided to take a year out (dont blame him).
I just thought that this wAs interesting because I heard Diarmuid Lyng say something recently that was similar, getting hammered time after time by Kilkenny damaged Wexfords confidence and their motivation. We hear alot that Kilkennys awesomeness (and they are awesome) will encourage other counties to up their game and the whole sport will benefit, but I think that if anything, players from other counties are becoming almost disillusioned.
Limerick have stepped up to the mark these last couple of years, but will it last? They undoubtedly put in a lot of effort these last couple of years, but at the end of it all still had to watch Tipp and Kilkenny battle it out on AIF day, (with the usual outcome). It must be annoying.
This is not an anti Kilkenny post (Ballydalane) but as someone who thinks that the cats DOMINANCE (not the cats themselves, but their DOMINANCE Ballydalane) will not necessarily benefit hurling, but could in fact hurt it, I though it was worth noting. Kilkennys dominance has benefited hurling though overall. Everyone has had to up their game to compete or at least try compete with them. That isn't a bad thing.
What can be done about it though?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2014 17:04:39    1673774

18/11/2014 21:49:40
cuederocket
Why wouldnt Mulligan be disheartened?I hope some day the likes of Leitrim,Longford and Roscommon almagate to form a new,competetive GAA county.Where a person is born,should not determine a whole career.If DJ Carey was born a mile across the border in Carlow,we would probably never of heard of him. But who would ever be brave enough to try do something meaningful like a change like that?
19/11/2014 16:28:12 Marlon_JD
I know I've posted this before, but while Kilkenny are the best team out there, they're not dominating like they did in the late noughties. And Tipp certainly aren't their main rivals. Look at the last 6 years:
2009: Kilkenny narrowly get past Tipp in the AI final 2010: Kilkenny beaten by Tipp in AI
2011: Kilkenny beaten by Dublin in League final 2012: Kilkenny beaten by Galway in Leinster final, held to draw in AI (before going on to win replay) 2013: Knocked out of Leinster by Dublin, knocked out of Championship by Cork
2014: Won the triple crown, but should have been beaten by Limerick in semi, and needed a replay to win AI
Then at underage:
Kilkenny haven't won an U21 AI since 2008. They won the minor this year, but it was their first appearance in a minor AI in over 4 years.
So still the best team? Yes. An unstoppable force that no other teams can compete with? No. Dublin, Galway and Cork have beaten them in the championship in the previous 3 years. In fact, the only team that are truly psyched out by Kilkenny at this stage, it's Tipp. If anyone is going to dominate in the next five years, its not going to be Kilkenny or Tipp, its going to be Clare. Marlon but they keep winning. Yes their underage teams haven't dominated but if they can get 1/2 players through from 21s every year into the senior squad full of all Ireland winners then that's enough

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2014 17:07:18    1673776

cuederocket you must never have travelled the roads of the west twists and turns you know not see in Dublin and it would take 2 and a half hours to go from the bottom of Roscommon to the top of Leitrim, training takes place usually in the evening when the roads are quieter in Dublin. You did not answer how these counties would attract sponsors, what would you do with surplus county grounds, how would you sort of the major arguments that would inevitably happen, plus a lot of people would be turned off by the idea of supporting a team with maybe 2 or 3 players from your own county, plus the would have long distances . Your posts are coming across as do as i say not as i do, how many gaa clubs are in Dublin, how many teams are in each of these clubs etc etc the idea that the are only able to field one county team is ridiculous especially when most other teams would struggle to cope with any merger. Zinny every county could say the same the have people who do not participate in football for example Roscommon and Leitrim have the oldest population in Ireland, old bachelor farmers and widows are not much use to a county team, the amount of people who play hurling in Munster/Kilkenny, the unionist population in the northern counties, the amount of people who play soccer in Sligo and Louth etc etc i am sure every county in Ireland could say the same. At least Dublin have the population to expand there playing base, for example have a Tallaght county team which could encourage people there to play gaa, the same in other weak gaa areas in Dublin in which the Dublin county board have failed to get into.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 20/11/2014 18:40:49    1673807

Ros1,i proposed this as a way of giving every county a fair chance of success.That is my one hope.I never said i had the answers for such a radical plan.I dont.Ive already said it a few times that it more than likely wont happen.I would listen to any propossls that would lead to the likes of Emilynn Mulligan having a decent chance of winning honours and All Stars.I can already see the calls for change again next Summer as various teams get beaten out the gate by far superior opposition.Ive said all i can say on this matter for now as it has fallen on deaf,or wax filled ears.Ill join the rest of yhe people just giving a damn about their own.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 20/11/2014 20:13:48    1673839

cuederocket i find it very funny you saying you care about other counties when you don't want any change to your own county yet suggesting randomly merging other counties ignoring all the problems that would arise from that.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 20/11/2014 20:59:16    1673854

Fair enough Ros1.I actually find the current Championship structure a joke.Difference sense of humours i guess.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 20/11/2014 21:21:10    1673861

Yes indeed cuederocket i just find your find idea of counties losing there identity but be still far weaker then Dublin in both population and finances a joke.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 20/11/2014 21:41:45    1673865

Ros1

You are quick to dismiss Cuedrockets points. You say that Leitrim people would not support a team made up of Roscommon and Longford players in area encompassing Leitrim. Do you expect people from certain clubs in Leitrim still support Leitrim even if they have no players on the team? But your argument is that if the boundaries of their 'representative' team were widened they would stop supporting them even though that team's probability of winning or becoming more competitive would increase?

There are about 170 clubs in Cork. At any one time, possibly 30 of them will have panelists on all our county teams. Do the rest decide not to support them as they are not 'represented'?

You talk about distance. Cork selector - Ciaran O Sullivan lives in Eyeries. Driving from Eyeries to Mitchelstown is about 200+km. The first 60 along mountain roads would take an hour. Luckily enough: (i) he is an exception and (ii) training tends to be on in accessible places that facilitate the majority who train. Cork train in Cork and not Mitchelstown.


For the record, I am not for Cuedrocket's idea (at the moment anyway) either but I cannot dismiss it as lightly.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 21/11/2014 11:01:32    1673910

Gaillimh_Abu....."Its all very well saying that the weaker counties just need to work harder but the fact is that many of them are putting in a trojan effort and still have nothing to show for it. Look at Laois hurlers whose performances have improved dramatically since the 10-goal drubbing from Cork a couple of years ago. They gave Galway a good rattle on two occasions but they still lost, and realisticaly that is probably as good as it is going to get for them."

funnily that is exactly what i would have said of galway and the top teams!

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 21/11/2014 11:07:40    1673914

Seeing as though it only took 130 years for the black card to be introduced,i certainly wouldnt be holding out much hope for such a radical idea being implemented.I was just putting the idea out there.I know im in the absolute minority on this one but cheers for keeping an open mind on the subject Benny.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 21/11/2014 12:43:36    1673943

Leitrim will always struggle against bigger population bases. As said previously Cork have 170 clubs Leitrim has 24. Take a look at the following article taken from the Leitrim Gaa website. A team produced for every 42 men in the county aged between 18-32, and not all these men will play or have an interest in football! Its a bit old but not a lot has changed really except maybe there are less young men around now due to emigration:

"Leitrim has 24 G.A.A. Clubs for a population of 25,057 (1996 Census) and 54 adult teams playing in 5 League divisions. If you consider that the number of males between the ages of 18 - 32 in the whole of County Leitrim is only 2310, that means there is a team produced for every 42 males of normal football playing age, resident in the County. Of course a proportion of these players are normally outside the County during the week and return at weekends.

Not alone is this not matched by any other County in Ireland, but it is doubtful if any sporting organisation anywhere in the world could come close to this level of participation, it is an amazing achievement."


How can we compete due to sheer numbers never mind financially...

leitrim4sam (Leitrim) - Posts: 644 - 21/11/2014 13:08:22    1673947

I agree with Gaillimh abu regards Laois.Theyve done trojan work to get where they are now.Ran Galway agonisingly close for 2 years,but bar maybe the odd scalp,i cant really see them progressing further.I hope im wrong,and Cheddar and co are doing great work,but the next step of reaching Leinster finals seems out of their reach.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 21/11/2014 14:23:27    1673973

Leitrim4sam,i agree with you.The numbers are staggering.No way in any fair competition Leitrim would be able to compete with the likes of Kerry.One big win in Connacht every 5 years or so.If i was a talented Leitrim footballer i could easily be following Emilyn Mulligan taking a years sabbatical.The odds are ridiculously stacked against counties like Leitrim.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 21/11/2014 14:41:26    1673982

I would actually see Laois as being one of the real up and coming sides, just because it is unfashionable Laois doesnt make them any more 2nd rate than Galway/Wexford/Dublin/Cork/Waterford. There is great work going into hurling in Laois at present. If anything, I think Galway's limitations were shown bare for all to see last year v Laois.

And I can guarantee you of 1 thing - Wexford's toughest games in 1B next year will be away in Portlaoise, since we have Waterford and Limerick at home. And every county will find it a tough place to go. They are working hard for respect whereas about 5-6 other counties think tradition and being from a traditional hurling county gives you a god-given right to beat the less traditional counties.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 21/11/2014 16:09:54    1674009

ROS1
cuederocket i find it very funny you saying you care about other counties when you don't want any change to your own county yet suggesting randomly merging other counties ignoring all the problems that would arise from that.

Well whats your solution to the "Dublin Problem"? a County Tallaght? seriouly! You want to dice Dublin up just to make the likes of Leitrim competitive?

The reason it won't EVER happen is because your suggestion is not a very good one.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 21/11/2014 17:50:16    1674029

Bennybunny one of Leitrim main problems down the years is the county is spilt in 2 by a lake and the some of the best players in north Leitrim have not bothered playing with the county team, this would get worse if merging went ahead, i know for example if there are not players from the local clubs on the Roscommon teams, some people will not be overly bothered travelling going to support Roscommon. My main point was even if his suggested merger went ahead ros/leitrim/longford would still have less then a tenth of the population of Dublin and about a fifth of the population of Cork, plus a fraction of the finances these counties have, so while the 3 counties would lose there identify i don't see them challenging at the later stage of the championship with much bigger and financially better off counties still there, plus the other issues i raised which he has failed to address, it is easy to come up with changes for other counties when you are unwilling to consider any change for your own. The only way mergers would work would be if every county was playing with the same hand. It is much easier to travel for training when you will be getting to all Ireland semi finals/ finals as is the case in Cork and splitting Cork would be a solution to the size of Cork.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 21/11/2014 18:10:51    1674034

How has Kilkennys dominance benefited the game though Ormond? Saying that everyone else has had to up their game is all well and good, but have they? Cork have fallen way behind, tipp are the second best team in the country but are still a long way behind the cats. I dont think that Galway are any better now than they were 10 years ago. Offaly are almost finished as a force, while Wexford fans wont be celebrating senior honours anytime soon. Ulster hurling has also fallen way behind where it was.
I think that teams are fitter and stronger now, but from a skill point of view I think that standards if anything have fallen.
Saying that the cats dominance is benefiting hurling is like saying that the Dubs dominance is benefiting Leinster football. If Carlow want to win leinster, its up to them to reach Dublins level etc.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 22/11/2014 16:31:42    1674208

Yes arock i was responding to your fellow dub poster who sees it is very easy to make changes to other counties and not make changes to your counties, the fact that Dublin's population is about to pass a million and a half about a third of the population of Ireland makes it is inevitable that Dublin will be spilt, my suggestion would help those areas of Dublin where the gaa is weak.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 22/11/2014 17:25:58    1674223

Well Tipp arent a "long way" behind, but Kilkenny are unquestionably the better side.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 22/11/2014 17:42:17    1674229

Ros1,dont be putting words in my mouth.I never said it would be easy.Anything but.I was throwing the idea out there and using the 3 counties i named as an example.Nothing more.Nothing less.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 22/11/2014 18:24:56    1674235