Gary from Derry. Will you get this into your head - the stadium has to be in Belfast, the location was never open to discussion, and for reasons unconnected to the Rugby World Cup bid.

The money to build this stadium is going to be there regardless of whether the World Cup bid is successful.

The one condition, which I suspect many in the GAA in Ulster may not like, is it must be in the capital i.e. the capital city of Northern Ireland. Talking about Omagh or any other location outside of Belfast is just bunkum and, whilst you might wish it were different, everybody at the table including GAA top brass fully understands and appreciates this. Such decisions are pre-ordained in Whitehall and at this stage it's take it or leave it and the GAA would be fools to leave it. Move on.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 31/10/2016 09:39:37    1930348

oNIon Breath - NI in your name, and B for Belfast. You must be an Antrim poster too - careful now!

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 31/10/2016 10:00:39    1930349

It's bad for the GAA that we don't already have a decent stadium in Belfast.
The greenfield stadium plan (or any other amenities really) is seriously flawed as it forces people to drive to stadiums which of course limits access.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 31/10/2016 10:45:55    1930358

The proposed "Casement Park" is a doggy bag handed to Ulster GAA, leftover's from the IRFU's Rugby World Cup 5 course banquet, hosted by the British Government . My point!! The GAA are an afterthought in this whole thing, this Stadium is being funded and built for the Rugby World Cup which will now definitely be in Ireland, the British are simply justifying it's construction by saying it's GAA stadium and will regenerate West Belfast somehow.

Where are you getting this idea of the Rugby World Cup being the be all and end all of the Casement Park project? It's not even that big of a competition. I would agree with you if Casement Park was being being pushed to be turned into a stadium for hosting the the Olympics where the stadium could be used as a major catalyst for re branding the city of Belfast. Casement's role in the rugby world cup will be a tier 2 stadium. Can you name or remember any tier 2 stadiums from the previous rugby world cup? Did you care? Probably not. The GAA realises this, the push for Casement is for the good of Ulster GAA and with the GAA solely in mind. Most GAA members agree and support the development, you are very much in the minority. We need a word class stadium in this province for our games and the only suitable place for a modern stadium is in a city. Have you been to new stadiums in greenfield sites of on the edge of towns/cities? They are completly devoid of soul, removed from who they are meant to serve. A place to get to and from as quickly as possible. A white elephant hemorrhaging money is what any new stadium of this quality and size is what it would be if it is anywhere other than Belfast.

The WC will not definitely be in Ireland, there are other nations bidding. If Ireland fails in this bid the GAA will still be committed to delivering this stadium and funding will still be available. I suppose you would think the GAA will still be under the thumb somehow by the IRFU then.

The WC is something to be taken advantage of in terms of funding and why the hell not? Why is this a bad thing? Where do you get the idea of the GAA being and 'afterthought' in this process? The GAA is absolutely central to the bid, so much so that we have representatives on the oversee committee of the bid. Without us the IRFU has no bid yet you think we are some sort of after thought, weird.

A left over doggy bag? I fail to see any new rugby stadiums being built? Possible GAA stadiums would include a redeveloped Casement,Páirc Uí Chaoimh and Fitzgerald stadium. Not bad for breadcrumbs. In fact If I was a rugby man I would be quite concerned with so much time and resources being diverted to GAA stadiums rather than rugby stadiums. Also this banquet you speak of would help businesses in the host cities and not necessary the IRFU. The IRFU has to pay close to 100m to host the games. And will also have to pay the GAA to rent the majority of stadiums in their bid, add that to ancillary costs required to plan and operate the games this banquet you speak of will not be so lavish.

Antifa (Donegal) - Posts: 143 - 31/10/2016 13:42:05    1930394

@GaryMc82 Have you seen detailed designs yet? Or are you basing that on the few concept pictures released that lack sufficient detail, and can only be considered concept art. Anyone who loves our games should be in favour of more careful planning, which first and foremost considers "us" the GAA fans and our specific needs.

Yes of course I have. I attended the phase 2 community consultation and detailed plans and drawings are available in the Project Information Booklet. Also included are rebuttals to almost every 'flaw' you have cited in this thread. Perhaps you should familiarise your self with the new proposal which you are so dead, before commenting further since you haven't bothered to attend the consultation or look over the new plans yourself. Thats probably the GAA's fault though, they should have had the consultation in clones or perhaps the Magherafelt roundabout where we could have parked down a country lane and have some tea and sandwiches out of the boot.

Antifa (Donegal) - Posts: 143 - 31/10/2016 14:21:47    1930399

Where are you getting this idea of the Rugby World Cup being the be all and end all of the Casement Park project? It's not even that big of a competition.

The Rugby World Cup is the main reason the GAA is receiving the funding from the British Government, at a time when the British Government are cutting spending across all regions. It is a big tournament, one the English feel they can win if given a proper crack at it on home soil or as close to home as possible.

The WC will not definitely be in Ireland, there are other nations bidding. If Ireland fails in this bid the GAA will still be committed to delivering this stadium and funding will still be available. I suppose you would think the GAA will still be under the thumb somehow by the IRFU then.

Yes Ireland will definitely host it, sure it's not confirmed yet, but with Italy having now pulled out of the race and France and Italy now backing Ireland along with the other Six Nation Countries. Ireland are now the clear front runner. I don't think the IRFU have much influence on their own, I think they are just a figurehead for this tournament, the British and Irish Government are the actual stakeholders, both seeing massive political benefits in hosting such an event.

The WC is something to be taken advantage of in terms of funding and why the hell not? Why is this a bad thing? Where do you get the idea of the GAA being and 'afterthought' in this process? The GAA is absolutely central to the bid, so much so that we have representatives on the oversee committee of the bid. Without us the IRFU has no bid yet you think we are some sort of after thought, weird.

The GAA are an after-thought, there would be no Stadium funding to the North at all from the British if this Rugby World Cup wasn't going ahead. The IRFU are the host, but they themselves are not developing GAA stadiums for this tournament, but the British and Irish Government are both on board and determined to support such a bid, which is why all this Stadium funding is happening North and South at a time when both sides are broke.

A left over doggy bag? I fail to see any new rugby stadiums being built? Possible GAA stadiums would include a redeveloped Casement,Páirc Uí Chaoimh and Fitzgerald stadium. Not bad for breadcrumbs. In fact If I was a rugby man I would be quite concerned with so much time and resources being diverted to GAA stadiums rather than rugby stadiums.
Antifa (Donegal) - Posts:116 - 31/10/2016 13:42:05


The IRFU are not funding these Stadiums in the North, or those other Stadiums in the South that you mentioned. The British Government are funding the Northern Ones, with the Lotto, GAA and other sponsors funding the Stadiums in the South. The doggy bag comment was in reference to "why" the Stadium was being funded by the British Government, they weren't giving the GAA funding for a Stadium just because they like the GAA or want it to do well. They couldn't give a rats arse about the GAA, but are obliged to be even handed with all funding in the North, and clearly the powerful English Rugby Union canvassed them in support of such funding, as they would benefit in having the tournament practically on their doorstep.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 01/11/2016 22:31:46    1930798

The money to build this stadium is going to be there regardless of whether the World Cup bid is successful.

The one condition, which I suspect many in the GAA in Ulster may not like, is it must be in the capital i.e. the capital city of Northern Ireland. Talking about Omagh or any other location outside of Belfast is just bunkum and, whilst you might wish it were different, everybody at the table including GAA top brass fully understands and appreciates this. Such decisions are pre-ordained in Whitehall and at this stage it's take it or leave it and the GAA would be fools to leave it. Move on.
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts:792 - 31/10/2016 09:39:37 1

Your chatting a load of nonsense here,

- The RWC bid has already been decided, many who understand the process now accept that Ireland who now have unanimous support from the European Rugby power-brokers since Italy withdrew, are basically certain to host it so long as they can build the required facilities. If the bid collapsed somehow due to planning delays or something unexpected, I suspect the funding would dry up or certainly be reduced.

- Belfast is the Capital of nothing, Northern Ireland is not a Country, only people of a Unionists mindset believe it is or maybe wish it was, but then when it comes to the Brexit vote, those same Unionists will quickly remind people that NI is just a section of the wider UK. Sure Belfast is the largest City in the occupied Six Counties, but Dublin is our Capital, and I as a Republican will never recognise Belfast as any Capital.

- Omagh and other more central locations make more sense to the greater Ulster GAA community, just look at the map of Ulster and see why both Clones and Casement share a similar problem for fans. I drive to Belfast once a week, I travel to Clones a few times every year, and I attend various matches in Derry, Donegal, Tyrone, Cavan, Armagh and Monaghan, and can tell you that a more central and less extravagant Stadium is precisely what Ulster GAA fans need.

- The top brass of the GAA are the same bunch of Ammatan's who couldn't hold the 2014 All Ireland Football SF replay at Croke Park, as they had American Football double booked. So don't for one second here pretend to know what the GAA top brass understand or appreciate, or that they are the voice of reason in all of this. And don't believe that British funding cannot be negotiated, because it can. The British have to give funding to the Nationalist side in the North "after" building Stadiums for the Rugby and Soccer which are seen up North as mainly Unionist Stadiums.
Until now there has been no alternative suggested to them, so this is untested.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 01/11/2016 22:53:35    1930804

It's bad for the GAA that we don't already have a decent stadium in Belfast.
The greenfield stadium plan (or any other amenities really) is seriously flawed as it forces people to drive to stadiums which of course limits access.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10166 - 31/10/2016 10:45:55

I think you should look into this a bit more, understand the poor road and rail networks in Ulster, and that Belfast is simply not the easiest accessed part of Ulster from all corners. You should also consider the GAA families who love going to games, but don't require hotel's or City restaurants, airports or shopping before or after a game, the game itself is the attraction and a trip to Belfast will simply mean families coughing up more cash to attend these matches.

What services will Belfast offer the average Ulster GAA fans attending a Provincial Game, that another more central venue in a large town like Omagh that is more easily reached can't offer? Omagh rivals the likes of Kilkenny, Carlow, Tralee, Castlebar, Port Laoise etc in both population and facilities, is supported by a number of other very large towns like Dungannon, Enniskillen, Monaghan, Strabane, Letterkenny, Cookstown and gives more easy access to all 9 Counties of Ulster and thus would be a brilliant option for more club games as well as Inter-County games.

Belfast is not practical, It is not the best option for the greater community of Ulster GAA fans, and it is those fans who have not even been considered. Romantic notions of GAA matches being in Belfast City are attractive to some, but offer little or no benefit to the good aul GAA fans who pump millions into GAA every year, and are least considered in these plans.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 01/11/2016 23:12:21    1930809

Yes of course I have. I attended the phase 2 community consultation and detailed plans and drawings are available in the Project Information Booklet. Also included are rebuttals to almost every 'flaw' you have cited in this thread. Perhaps you should familiarise your self with the new proposal which you are so dead, before commenting further since you haven't bothered to attend the consultation or look over the new plans yourself. Thats probably the GAA's fault though, they should have had the consultation in clones or perhaps the Magherafelt roundabout where we could have parked down a country lane and have some tea and sandwiches out of the boot.

Antifa (Donegal) - Posts:116 - 31/10/2016 14:21:47

Regarding your post, as you praised the wonderful design, I asked had you actually seen detailed designs, as I could not access them on the Casement Proposal website which I thought was strange, most Stadium proposals give a much greater level of design in detail in their launch, yet this one gave only zoomed out images on the website and the news, and saved the detail plans for your Community Consultation meeting. I will seek out a copy and will review in the next 14 days.

I will seek out the document you speak of, although I seriously doubt it will provide rebuttals of any substance, it will probably give similar "Spinal Tap" answers like the parochial Antrim brigade "But it can hold concerts and business meetings", or "It's beside the airports and hotels". All potential and viable answers in their book, until you realise few if any GAA fans use any of those facilities when travelling to a match.

I can appreciate the poor Antrim posters like yourself being so grateful to the thought of getting this Stadium in a run down area of Belfast, that they are blind to its severe flaws. But this project is so bad, that people from republican/Nationalist backgrounds are on here saying "But the British say it must be spent in Belfast!!".

The British say a lot of things, it doesn't mean we have to accept it.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 01/11/2016 23:35:40    1930811

So Omagh has better bus/train links than Belfast?

I wouldn't have thought so.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 02/11/2016 09:57:56    1930833

Ah holy f**k... so now its English Rugby whose secretly behind the casement development.

Folks please stop responding to his nonsense....we've already endured over 30 pages of paranoia, fantasy and prejudice.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 02/11/2016 10:19:21    1930836

duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 02/11/2016 10:23:39    1930838

Gary no harm to you, you're talking out your hole.

lol, course he is - which is why I stopped engaging in serious debate with him on this topic a good while back. The longer it goes on the harder it is to hide the underlying feelings and the anger towards us Parochial Antrim folk. But I suppose they say letting it out is good therapy so chip away lad. It is keeping me amused on these shorter days and longer nights that's for sure.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 02/11/2016 10:56:30    1930844

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 02/11/2016 11:32:28    1930861

The simple facts are that the stadium has to be in Belfast, like it, loathe it, but it is going to be there and your insistence that anything is better than casement shows your hand, so instead of telling us that the world is flat why don't you just accept that this is the only option.
duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts:135 - 02/11/2016 10:23:39

Chatting out of my hole? You're lacking a technical argument of any credibility, so naturally you resort to personal attacks of sarcastic tone. Why? Because you and the other Antrim posters fear alternatives being discussed on here, in case it somehow catches fire and spreads, and threatens this already fragile proposed project. I don't hate Antrim posters have failed for years now to justify why such a Stadium should be located in Belfast, although they believe everybody outside of Belfast does hate them, perhaps an inferiority complex of sorts.

Collectively Antrim Parochial Project Support group have tried to justify Casement by saying things like
- The money will only be given on the condition its spent in Belfast
- Belfast is Ideal for amenties like Hotel's, Bars, Restaurants, Airports and shopping.
- The venue will be ideally located for holding major Concerts and Corporate events.
- Ulster finals used to be in Belfast years ago.
- Maybe Derry's County Stadium should be located in a more central location (Which I back, despite living in Derry City).
- This Stadium will help regenerate West Belfast, support the local community.

I already have showed my hand over the last number of years by mentioning the following
- A Provincial Stadium should serve the needs of the greater 9 County Ulster GAA Province - Not just Belfast or Antrim, and their politicians.
- Considering travel options to all corners of 9 County Ulster, a more Central location would provide easier & cheaper access to all Ulster Gaels.
- Why spend £77 million on this project, when upgrading an existing large town site like Healy Park for less than 30-40% of this current cost.
- Construct this Stadium using materials and workers from all 9 Counties of Ulster, making it truly the home of Ulster GAA.
- Build our own Stadium on our own terms, not under strict guidelines from the British Government of all feckin people.
- When building any major venue, primary consideration should be given to those who will use it the most, this is not the case with this project.
- The vast majority of Ulster GAA fans do not require Airports, Hotel's, Bar's, Shopping etc on match day, the game is their priority that day.
- West Belfast is clearly not suitable for a Provincial Stadium, the majority of fans will have to park and ride, as their isn't enough parking available.
- Look at all other options, and weigh up the pro's and con's of all of them, and then choose the most suitable option for all Ulster GAA fans, nothing else was even considered here.

Conclusion
My points continuously ask that we look at what is best for ALL Ulster GAA fans collectively, your points look at whats best for West Belfast and squeeze as much as possible out of the Ulster GAA fans, to boost the local economy in West Belfast.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/11/2016 17:19:55    1930974

btw the brit taxpayer who paid for Ravenhill, Windsor and ultimately Casement includes me, you and countless other gaels from the 6 counties, so why shouldn't they pay for it and why shouldn't we take it!
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1453 - 02/11/2016 11:32:28 1

Oh they should and will pay for it, they have already given large Stadium grants to the primarily Unionist backed sports, and they are obliged to follow suit now by also donating to Nationalist backed sports. Don't forget that Northern Iron is a special case when it comes to funding, funding must be dished out in a more even handed manner than anywhere else.

The actual location is for the GAA to decide, based on what is best for the fans who use it. Sure the British Government and also Sinn Fein will want it based in Belfast for their own reasons, but ultimately Ulster GAA can contest this point and put forward logical and viable alternatives in a public forum without risk of losing the funding. Who cares if it takes a little longer for the project to be completed ( Apart from the Rugby Crowd), so long as it is done right and with careful consideration.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/11/2016 17:30:17    1930975

So Omagh has better bus/train links than Belfast?

I wouldn't have thought so.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10168 - 02/11/2016 09:57:56

Well actually,

- Omagh is a major bus hub in Ulster, so yes it actually has better and certainly shorter bus links in all directions across 9 Counties of Ulster. This is another reason why it would be a more suitable location than Belfast.

- The rail network does not reach all counties, so it is irrelevant to GAA fans when considering travel to and from all 9 Counties of Ulster.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/11/2016 17:41:00    1930976

Ah holy f**k... so now its English Rugby whose secretly behind the casement development.

Folks please stop responding to his nonsense....we've already endured over 30 pages of paranoia, fantasy and prejudice.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1453 - 02/11/2016 10:19:21

"Folks please.... " Do you really think you're the voice of reason here??

You and the other Antrim posters blindly support this flawed and ridiculous waste of money because its going to be in your doorstep, and technically be your County Stadium. Collectively you resort to being critical of me, rather than providing strong arguments in favour of the project.

It drives you banana's that I am highlighting some of this stuff, the real life flaws that no Politician or GAA official will mention. Hell a Dublin poster thinks Belfast is the most easily accessed part of Ulster, while in reality Ulster's transport networks are not so clear-cut, with Belfast being a logistical nightmare for Ulster GAA fans, and offers little improvement on issues currently encountered with Clones.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/11/2016 18:02:17    1930983

Gary over 50% of the population of Ulster live in Down and Antrim. Do you accept that it makes sense to have the main stadium close to where the majority of the population is or do you think it should be in the geographical centre regardless of how few people actually live reasonably close to that point?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/11/2016 19:26:41    1930996

Gary over 50% of the population of Ulster live in Down and Antrim. Do you accept that it makes sense to have the main stadium close to where the majority of the population is or do you think it should be in the geographical centre regardless of how few people actually live reasonably close to that point?

Soma (UK) - Posts:1634 - 02/11/2016 19:26:41

Over 53% of that population in Counties Antrim & Down are of Non-GAA supporting Unionist persuasion, and those are the only two Counties now in 9 County Ulster and Northern Ireland with Unionist Majorities.

So carefully considering the Ulster GAA population, I do prefer a central 9 County Ulster location over West Belfast, not just because its central geographically, but also central to the wider GAA population with Ulster too.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/11/2016 21:07:59    1931025