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Replying To Dubh_linn: "Reduction in capacity has allowed it to get the green light. Apparently due for completion by 2019." Green light? It hasn't even been submitted for planning permission yet. This is just a design proposal which will be subject to further stakeholder and public consultation in the coming weeks.
Antifa (Donegal) - Posts: 143 - 24/10/2016 20:01:49
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Replying To Antifa: "Green light? It hasn't even been submitted for planning permission yet. This is just a design proposal which will be subject to further stakeholder and public consultation in the coming weeks." It will go ahead, the compromise has been made and capacity is down to 34,500.
The economic benefit alone to the area is too good a chance to miss.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 24/10/2016 20:22:16
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Replying To Dubh_linn: "It will go ahead, the compromise has been made and capacity is down to 34,500.
The economic benefit alone to the area is too good a chance to miss." What about poor old Clones? We had good and bad days there, the bad ones I forget about , the good ones I never forget.
Still I'd be happy enough leaving Casement with Donegal as Ulster champions.
Don't forget they can play All Ireland quarter finals there , again depends on the counties They could play the league final there , indeed lots of options
SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 24/10/2016 21:24:02
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Looks like a great stadium, a remarkable design.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 24/10/2016 21:31:23
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Replying To Dubh_linn: "It will go ahead, the compromise has been made and capacity is down to 34,500.
The economic benefit alone to the area is too good a chance to miss." What economic benefit is that? And to whom precisely will it benefit?
It's costing £77 Million ( €86 Million ), will maybe be filled 1- 5 times per year if Ulster GAA run double headers (Check the Ulster Championship attendance figures for the last few years to see what I mean, very few matches attract 25k to 30k).
From a logistical point of view, there is no value in moving the Provincial Stadium from Clones (Extreme South of Province) to West Belfast (In extreme East of the Province). A Provincial GAA Stadium serves a very different purpose to a National Stadium, the Provincial GAA Stadium is supposed to cater to all teams within that Province, rather than International teams who may fly in to view International matches and events in a National Stadium.
I have been the most frequent opposition voice to the New Casement Park project, not because I don't want Antrim getting a Stadium, but simply because the entire logic behind this whole thing is seriously flawed. This benefits lots of people, except the broader Ulster GAA supporters, who are really only an afterthought in all of this.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 24/10/2016 22:28:02
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Replying To SamOnErrigal: "What about poor old Clones? We had good and bad days there, the bad ones I forget about , the good ones I never forget.
Still I'd be happy enough leaving Casement with Donegal as Ulster champions.
Don't forget they can play All Ireland quarter finals there , again depends on the counties They could play the league final there , indeed lots of options" Some good days in Clones no doubt but this new stadium is going to be a special place too.The future is bright and the whole area will benefit from it.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 24/10/2016 22:45:14
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Replying To Offside_Rule: "Whether it is the right place or not you are bang on in that it is a decision which is happening - which is why I have disengaged from serious debate on it long time back. Now, if for some reason Casement falls through then I am more than happy to debate where is the best location to put a new stadium. Belfast would still be a strong runner on the fact of every positive already pointed out but of course you will have other locations, like Garys proposal, that would be put forward and at the point of 'candidates' are proposed then we could have a real good debate about it. In my mind in such situation I would look at all the information on each site independently and make a decision in my head based on which makes the most sense, both from a sporting and sustainability viewpoint. If this turns out to be near Omagh or the likes then I would say go build it there and put my weight behind that. Contrary to what Gary thinks my views on this have never been Parochial as previously said, if I was then I would be looking for it closer than it currently is (1 hour in normal traffic). In the same way that I think Dublin is the correct place for Croke Park to be located despite its lack of centrality.
Anyway, there is only one show in town at the moment so embrace it rather than hate it." you're forgetting one major stumbling block to that argument. The brit money is secured by SF to be spent in casement with the approval of ulster council who couldn't turn it down. If this falls through then the brit exchequer will benefit from the 65 million squids being returned, as there is no plan b because of the decision by d murphy and co. So all the talk of alternative venues is only hot air and a waste of debate. With SF securing the largest % of the pot from the maze project they were guaranteeing the money being spent in their gerrys heartland.
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts: 361 - 25/10/2016 01:16:55
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From a logistical point of view, there is no value in moving the Provincial Stadium from Clones (Extreme South of Province) to West Belfast (In extreme East of the Province).
lol - lots of logistical reasons to have the provincial stadium back in Belfast over Clones. In fact as myself and other Antrim Gaels have said time and time again (though on to deaf ears) - if you asked Antrim GAA what we wanted then we would say near to a man (and woman) that we are happy with a smaller stadium to fit our needs. But this isn't nor was it ever about Antrim GAA and when you take off the blinkers and look at everything then logistically it makes most sense to have it in Belfast - or you could go with the White Elephant you were looking for in the middle of a field somewhere in the geographical center of Ulster where then it would only get used about 5 times a year and would become unsustainable very quickly (not to mention how many factors of the £70m odd you would have to multiply by to get this new stadium, infrastructure etc etc etc in the first place).
Anyway, still a way to go before it gets the green light but at least the wheels are in motion now.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 25/10/2016 10:51:17
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you're forgetting one major stumbling block to that argument. The brit money is secured by SF to be spent in casement with the approval of ulster council who couldn't turn it down. If this falls through then the brit exchequer will benefit from the 65 million squids being returned, as there is no plan b because of the decision by d murphy and co. So all the talk of alternative venues is only hot air and a waste of debate.
Oh I am not forgetting any stumbling blocks :-) - I have said from day one this is the only show in town and it is Casement or nowhere and the day that changes is the day I would enter in to serious debate about best locations for an Ulster stadium but others are the ones who seem to have difficulty with it.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 25/10/2016 10:55:58
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Replying To Offside_Rule: "From a logistical point of view, there is no value in moving the Provincial Stadium from Clones (Extreme South of Province) to West Belfast (In extreme East of the Province).
lol - lots of logistical reasons to have the provincial stadium back in Belfast over Clones. In fact as myself and other Antrim Gaels have said time and time again (though on to deaf ears) - if you asked Antrim GAA what we wanted then we would say near to a man (and woman) that we are happy with a smaller stadium to fit our needs. But this isn't nor was it ever about Antrim GAA and when you take off the blinkers and look at everything then logistically it makes most sense to have it in Belfast - or you could go with the White Elephant you were looking for in the middle of a field somewhere in the geographical center of Ulster where then it would only get used about 5 times a year and would become unsustainable very quickly (not to mention how many factors of the £70m odd you would have to multiply by to get this new stadium, infrastructure etc etc etc in the first place).
Anyway, still a way to go before it gets the green light but at least the wheels are in motion now." You and your fellow Antrim posters have a vested interest in this Stadium being located in your County, meaning Antrim posters have a biased opinion on the matter.
I
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 25/10/2016 12:15:05
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you're forgetting one major stumbling block to that argument. The brit money is secured by SF to be spent in casement with the approval of ulster council who couldn't turn it down. If this falls through then the brit exchequer will benefit from the 65 million squids being returned, as there is no plan b because of the decision by d murphy and co. So all the talk of alternative venues is only hot air and a waste of debate. With SF securing the largest % of the pot from the maze project they were guaranteeing the money being spent in their gerrys heartland.
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts:42 - 25/10/2016 01:16:55
Your forgetting that this due to the nature of the Six Counties, grants for sporting or community investment must be evenly spread across both sides of the divide. The scare-mongering being spinned that this money will dissapear if the Stadium is not located in Belfast is ridiculous, Sinn Fein are peddling this because they want there name attached to this in West Belfast.
The lack of talk and discussion about alternative options in the run up to this is the very reason I started looking into this project, I was shocked that nothing else was even remotely considered. Essentially Sinn Fein bent over for British money, just so they can later brag about the great Infrastructure they brought to West Belfast and use it as a symbol of the great work they have done during their time in power.
However in reality, this entire project was suggested, funded and controlled by the British Governements sport funding, all so they can have the Rugby World Cup on their doorstep. The wider Ulster GAA community have been completely Ignored here, not even remotely considered. This proposed Stadium will have Ulster GAA written on the door, but that's where the commitment ends.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 25/10/2016 12:29:35
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Replying To SamOnErrigal: "What about poor old Clones? We had good and bad days there, the bad ones I forget about , the good ones I never forget.
Still I'd be happy enough leaving Casement with Donegal as Ulster champions.
Don't forget they can play All Ireland quarter finals there , again depends on the counties They could play the league final there , indeed lots of options" Agreed, I would imagine the new Casement will see action outside of Ulster Championship matches. As for Clones well to its detriment it wasn't redeveloped properly when the chance was there and for a stadium which was upgraded in the early 90's it is now quite dated with its bench seating and lack of covered accommodation. It should be maintained as a major venue in the province but I would suggest that a gradual improvement of its facilities and a reduction in its capacity would be the way forward. Clones could be a fine stadium with a 25k capacity which would be adequate with the new Casement in place.
Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 25/10/2016 12:46:59
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Replying To GaryMc82: " Replying To Offside_Rule: "From a logistical point of view, there is no value in moving the Provincial Stadium from Clones (Extreme South of Province) to West Belfast (In extreme East of the Province).
lol - lots of logistical reasons to have the provincial stadium back in Belfast over Clones. In fact as myself and other Antrim Gaels have said time and time again (though on to deaf ears) - if you asked Antrim GAA what we wanted then we would say near to a man (and woman) that we are happy with a smaller stadium to fit our needs. But this isn't nor was it ever about Antrim GAA and when you take off the blinkers and look at everything then logistically it makes most sense to have it in Belfast - or you could go with the White Elephant you were looking for in the middle of a field somewhere in the geographical center of Ulster where then it would only get used about 5 times a year and would become unsustainable very quickly (not to mention how many factors of the £70m odd you would have to multiply by to get this new stadium, infrastructure etc etc etc in the first place).
Anyway, still a way to go before it gets the green light but at least the wheels are in motion now." You and your fellow Antrim posters have a vested interest in this Stadium being located in your County, meaning Antrim posters have a biased opinion on the matter. I"
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/10/2016 12:53:03
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Replying To GaryMc82: "you're forgetting one major stumbling block to that argument. The brit money is secured by SF to be spent in casement with the approval of ulster council who couldn't turn it down. If this falls through then the brit exchequer will benefit from the 65 million squids being returned, as there is no plan b because of the decision by d murphy and co. So all the talk of alternative venues is only hot air and a waste of debate. With SF securing the largest % of the pot from the maze project they were guaranteeing the money being spent in their gerrys heartland.
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts:42 - 25/10/2016 01:16:55
Your forgetting that this due to the nature of the Six Counties, grants for sporting or community investment must be evenly spread across both sides of the divide. The scare-mongering being spinned that this money will dissapear if the Stadium is not located in Belfast is ridiculous, Sinn Fein are peddling this because they want there name attached to this in West Belfast.
The lack of talk and discussion about alternative options in the run up to this is the very reason I started looking into this project, I was shocked that nothing else was even remotely considered. Essentially Sinn Fein bent over for British money, just so they can later brag about the great Infrastructure they brought to West Belfast and use it as a symbol of the great work they have done during their time in power.
However in reality, this entire project was suggested, funded and controlled by the British Governements sport funding, all so they can have the Rugby World Cup on their doorstep. The wider Ulster GAA community have been completely Ignored here, not even remotely considered. This proposed Stadium will have Ulster GAA written on the door, but that's where the commitment ends." The reality is that its about regenerating the local area economically as well as in GAA terms as I have often stated before.
I don't care who paid the money btw, it could have come from Timbuktu for all I care.
I would remind you that Andersonstown and West Belfast in general is one of the most deprived areas in the north and why shouldn't the shinners push their agenda there given there is f**k all other investment in it.
If it regenerates the area financially, provides jobs for locals as the social clauses will ensure and encourages kids in the surrounding areas to play our games then that's job done imo!
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/10/2016 13:03:34
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You and your fellow Antrim posters have a vested interest in this Stadium being located in your County, meaning Antrim posters have a biased opinion on the matter.
The only vested interested we have in this whole scenario is that we would like to have a County ground available again asap. I will say it again and again and again until it finally sinks in. I couldn't give two monkeys if Ulster Finals etc were played in Belfast, Clones, Armagh or Timbuktu. If you asked me a number of years back would you like to be sitting in a number of years with no ground but with the prospects of a new 34,500 capacity stadium (planning allowing) or in a position where you have a much smaller stadium already in place which will suit the needs of Antrim GAA then I can tell you which I (and probably most others in the County) would have said. This doesn't mean however that I am not excited about the new stadium that is on the offering nor does it mean I can't take a step back and see why a place like Belfast is the obvious choice but let's not confuse this with some sort of bias towards getting it in our County. The only bias seems to be from those who are obviously anti-Antrim/Belfast but as the saying goes, haters will always hate......
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 25/10/2016 13:11:46
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Good to see the country's second city getting a modern stadium and it will be good for the GAA and quite central from a road network prospective with motorway into the city.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 25/10/2016 13:42:48
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Replying To GaryMc82: "What economic benefit is that? And to whom precisely will it benefit?
It's costing £77 Million ( €86 Million ), will maybe be filled 1- 5 times per year if Ulster GAA run double headers (Check the Ulster Championship attendance figures for the last few years to see what I mean, very few matches attract 25k to 30k).
From a logistical point of view, there is no value in moving the Provincial Stadium from Clones (Extreme South of Province) to West Belfast (In extreme East of the Province). A Provincial GAA Stadium serves a very different purpose to a National Stadium, the Provincial GAA Stadium is supposed to cater to all teams within that Province, rather than International teams who may fly in to view International matches and events in a National Stadium.
I have been the most frequent opposition voice to the New Casement Park project, not because I don't want Antrim getting a Stadium, but simply because the entire logic behind this whole thing is seriously flawed. This benefits lots of people, except the broader Ulster GAA supporters, who are really only an afterthought in all of this." Well, I suppose if your completely against the whole ides from day one there's very little chance of you changing your mind.
I believe you could have certainly made a similar arguement against redevelopement of Croke Park, Lansdowne/ Aviva or Pairc Ui Caoimh but it's about looking to the future and aspiring to providing 21st century facilities for generations to come. Considering it's the second most populated city on the island I think it is justyfible in having a 34,500 capacity venue. Who will benefit ? well the economy in the local area will undoubtedly benefit in the years that the stadium is being built and will benefit when events are staged there in the future.
Anything would be better than what's there at the minute surely.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 25/10/2016 13:57:18
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Replying To bumpernut: " Replying To GaryMc82: "you're forgetting one major stumbling block to that argument. The brit money is secured by SF to be spent in casement with the approval of ulster council who couldn't turn it down. If this falls through then the brit exchequer will benefit from the 65 million squids being returned, as there is no plan b because of the decision by d murphy and co. So all the talk of alternative venues is only hot air and a waste of debate. With SF securing the largest % of the pot from the maze project they were guaranteeing the money being spent in their gerrys heartland.
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts:42 - 25/10/2016 01:16:55
Your forgetting that this due to the nature of the Six Counties, grants for sporting or community investment must be evenly spread across both sides of the divide. The scare-mongering being spinned that this money will dissapear if the Stadium is not located in Belfast is ridiculous, Sinn Fein are peddling this because they want there name attached to this in West Belfast.
The lack of talk and discussion about alternative options in the run up to this is the very reason I started looking into this project, I was shocked that nothing else was even remotely considered. Essentially Sinn Fein bent over for British money, just so they can later brag about the great Infrastructure they brought to West Belfast and use it as a symbol of the great work they have done during their time in power.
However in reality, this entire project was suggested, funded and controlled by the British Governements sport funding, all so they can have the Rugby World Cup on their doorstep. The wider Ulster GAA community have been completely Ignored here, not even remotely considered. This proposed Stadium will have Ulster GAA written on the door, but that's where the commitment ends." The reality is that its about regenerating the local area economically as well as in GAA terms as I have often stated before. I don't care who paid the money btw, it could have come from Timbuktu for all I care. I would remind you that Andersonstown and West Belfast in general is one of the most deprived areas in the north and why shouldn't the shinners push their agenda there given there is f**k all other investment in it. If it regenerates the area financially, provides jobs for locals as the social clauses will ensure and encourages kids in the surrounding areas to play our games then that's job done imo!"
brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 25/10/2016 14:06:10
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Replying To brendtheredhand: " Replying To bumpernut: "[quote=GaryMc82: "you're forgetting one major stumbling block to that argument. The brit money is secured by SF to be spent in casement with the approval of ulster council who couldn't turn it down. If this falls through then the brit exchequer will benefit from the 65 million squids being returned, as there is no plan b because of the decision by d murphy and co. So all the talk of alternative venues is only hot air and a waste of debate. With SF securing the largest % of the pot from the maze project they were guaranteeing the money being spent in their gerrys heartland.
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts:42 - 25/10/2016 01:16:55
Your forgetting that this due to the nature of the Six Counties, grants for sporting or community investment must be evenly spread across both sides of the divide. The scare-mongering being spinned that this money will dissapear if the Stadium is not located in Belfast is ridiculous, Sinn Fein are peddling this because they want there name attached to this in West Belfast.
The lack of talk and discussion about alternative options in the run up to this is the very reason I started looking into this project, I was shocked that nothing else was even remotely considered. Essentially Sinn Fein bent over for British money, just so they can later brag about the great Infrastructure they brought to West Belfast and use it as a symbol of the great work they have done during their time in power.
However in reality, this entire project was suggested, funded and controlled by the British Governements sport funding, all so they can have the Rugby World Cup on their doorstep. The wider Ulster GAA community have been completely Ignored here, not even remotely considered. This proposed Stadium will have Ulster GAA written on the door, but that's where the commitment ends." The reality is that its about regenerating the local area economically as well as in GAA terms as I have often stated before. I don't care who paid the money btw, it could have come from Timbuktu for all I care. I would remind you that Andersonstown and West Belfast in general is one of the most deprived areas in the north and why shouldn't the shinners push their agenda there given there is f**k all other investment in it. If it regenerates the area financially, provides jobs for locals as the social clauses will ensure and encourages kids in the surrounding areas to play our games then that's job done imo!"
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/10/2016 14:41:42
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I'm disappointed that the capacity has been reduced but delighted that this project is still going ahead...... We the gaels in the north have to beg for funding , beg for media exposure ... now with this state of the art stadium we can promote and show case our games in this new arena
West belfast needs a new stadium.... Belfast is the second city and the GAA needs to be looked after in the city...
To talk about Omagh etc is madness - you place a stadium in an area of mass population.
cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1671 - 25/10/2016 14:44:51
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