Well It's true, I never seen the logic in building what clearly is an "Ulster GAA stadium" primarily for the 9 county Ulster GAA, and locate it in the extreme East of the Province.

But Gary - Clones is and has been used and it is in the very South of the Province with a pretty poor road network, bus links, lacking train station etc etc whereas while Belfast might be on the East Coast (though it is located half way down the East Coast) it has great infrastructure serving it making it a lot more accessible for fans who would probably be able to get to it and away as quick if not quicker than a lot of the other green field sites which have been suggested.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 16/10/2014 16:55:21    1664366

johnboy7
County: Tyrone
Posts: 57

1664328
Now I'm not happy that Casement is not getting a facelift just yet, as I do think a redeveloped Casement would be great. But not at that kinda money.


I don't quite understand the logic behind this kind of parochial thinking and the Clones Forever brigade. The Casement redevelopment is being majority funded by the British government and at this point is the only show in town. That is where that "kinda money" is coming from, not the GAA. Is Clones such a great place that we should tell them to keep the money, we are grand as we are. It was a hard fight to get this funding and I'm sure there are plenty in Stormont who would be delighted to take it back off the GAA. Are you really going to look a once in a lifetime 24 carrot gold gift horse in the mouth just because you prefer Clones or don't like Belfast?? Get real.

You quoted me, and then the first line you type mentions the "Clones forever brigade". When did I ever qualify as a member of the Clones forever brigade?.

While you think the British may be the only show in town, your method of thinking is way off.

Do you think the British gave the money out of the kindness of their hearts? Because I can assure you that your are wrong. They gave the money, because they were also dishing out a fortune to the other major sporting bodies for Stadiums ( See Windsor park and Ravenhill ). My thinking is the opposite of Parochial, unless by Parochial you mean considering all the people of Ulster?

Personally I would stare down that particular gift horse in the mouth, and explain that it isn't logical to build a Stadium for all of the Ulster GAA counties in the extreme east of the Province.

Many Ulster Gael's already suffer a similar pain in having to travel down to Clones, I would have thought this would have been to the fore of everybody's minds when choosing a new Stadium location for Ulster's next Premier GAA Stadium.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 17/10/2014 20:28:09    1664815

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1727

1664366
Well It's true, I never seen the logic in building what clearly is an "Ulster GAA stadium" primarily for the 9 county Ulster GAA, and locate it in the extreme East of the Province.

But Gary - Clones is and has been used and it is in the very South of the Province with a pretty poor road network, bus links, lacking train station etc etc whereas while Belfast might be on the East Coast (though it is located half way down the East Coast) it has great infrastructure serving it making it a lot more accessible for fans who would probably be able to get to it and away as quick if not quicker than a lot of the other green field sites which have been suggested.

I agree that Clones is not an Ideal location for many reasons, however I must stress that "Hub for Ulster Gaelic Football" should have automatically been placed in a Location thats central to All 9 Counties of Ulster.

One Central Stadium for all the Counties of Ulster, with a pitch made up with clay from all 9 Counties of Ulster. Ensuring every team that plays there, plays on home soil.
With building work sub-contracted to firms from all 9 counties, to ensure people from all 9 counties helped build it.

Create a special Stadium, that will have so much more than a mere monetary value to the Ulster Gael's.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 17/10/2014 21:37:10    1664834

For starters Clones is out of the question so can Monaghan folk please get that into their heads.

For me Belfast is the obvious choice due to road networks, public transport networks (including the planned light rail to service the area round casement), hotel beds, restaurants, bars, shopping etc etc. It also houses people from every corner of Ireland and provides a location that would also see other events being well attended should they be hosted - revenue streams will be important to maintain a stadium. Also Casement has on many an occasion recently hosted over 30,000 supporters at games.

If not Belfast the somewhere in the East Tyrone, North Armagh area I would suggest - somewhere to avail of what would also be a good road network without necessarily having the additional advantages that Belfast has. The stubborn streak in me would say actually take the stadium here because of the hassle coming from Belfast but then I am also aware this is a minority who are against and a good chunk of them are not even so much against as they are trying to see what they can profit from it.

Embarrassing all the same that this pot of money has been on offer, the other two codes are well on their way to completion and our lot are squabbling and holding to ransom but hey welcome to handout culture.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 17/10/2014 21:39:50    1664835

In this day and age do people really think that to maintain a stadium of the standard that has been proposed that the only source of revenue and income is derived from match days? Get real!!!!! Clones, East Tyrone, etc????? Without the infrastructure, hotels, and ambiance required to host any major event other than an actual match. Someone mentioned atmosphere in clones, by that you simply mean pubs, drinking in the street, urinating in the streets and burger vans. If that is your idea of atmosphere then you will have a much needed educational visit to a rejuvenated west belfast when the stadium goes ahead. People question the atmosphere in the existing casement, how would they know? When was the last meaningful close competitive later stages ulster championship game staged in a packed casement park to create any atmosphere? The atmosphere is only as good as the crowd and intensity of the game itself no matter where it is. I am afraid that the age old problem we have in the GAA is rearing its backwards head again here, everyone wants their own little kingdom and to look after their own for selfish reasons! Lets get real, lets move forward, lets embrace a comfortable modern stadium proposal in the 21st century where children can enjoy matches in comfort and they can attend other concerts or social events with their friends as they get older that are hosted in 'our stadium' rather than letting those on the other side of the Boucher road reap the financial benefits and rewards and handing them our cash!

oso (Antrim) - Posts: 168 - 18/10/2014 11:48:10    1664879

Nobody here mentioning the fact about Belfast hosting Ulster finals in the middle of July

Will the gaels feel safe in their Derry and Down jerseys walking around Belfast if there is any flegs issues. I'm sure the Armagh fans will be safe enough

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 214 - 18/10/2014 17:10:01    1664982

oso
County: Antrim
Posts: 130

1664879
In this day and age do people really think that to maintain a stadium of the standard that has been proposed that the only source of revenue and income is derived from match days? Get real!!!!! Clones, East Tyrone, etc????? Without the infrastructure, hotels, and ambiance required to host any major event other than an actual match.

It's a GAA Stadium at the end of the day, thats the sole reason it is being built. And more Importantly It's an Ulster GAA Stadium, supposedly for the 9 Counties of Ulster. I say this, as that is where all major GAA games will be hosted after it is built.

And full building cost is to be fully funded, meaning no loan or mortgage costs to pay back over 20 years like Croke Park. So maintenance will be easily covered in Gate receipts. This should afford us an exclusive venue, and stop the need to move replay's in order to facilitate an American Football game or One Direction concert.

This is more about boosting Belfast, than boosting the game. Check back through all the poster's, and you will see the vast majority are from Antrim. I can understand this, as clearly they want a superb home Stadium and of course the Belfast Gael's would like a superb Stadium in their own yard.

But this should be about more than that kind of Parochial thinking.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 18/10/2014 20:28:45    1665037

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1460

1665037

It's a GAA Stadium at the end of the day, thats the sole reason it is being built. And more Importantly It's an Ulster GAA Stadium, supposedly for the 9 Counties of Ulster. I say this, as that is where all major GAA games will be hosted after it is built.

And full building cost is to be fully funded, meaning no loan or mortgage costs to pay back over 20 years like Croke Park. So maintenance will be easily covered in Gate receipts. This should afford us an exclusive venue, and stop the need to move replay's in order to facilitate an American Football game or One Direction concert.

This is more about boosting Belfast, than boosting the game. Check back through all the poster's, and you will see the vast majority are from Antrim. I can understand this, as clearly they want a superb home Stadium and of course the Belfast Gael's would like a superb Stadium in their own yard.

But this should be about more than that kind of Parochial thinking.

This is going to be my last post on this subject as clearly people are ill informed and are not aware of nor have they viewed the proposed stadium plans!!! The very point is that the proposed stadium has hospitality facilities and potential sources of revenue all year around and not only on a handful of match days. We are not talking about a white elephant that lies idle 7 months of the year and in doing so gathers moss and becomes dilapidated in 10 years time!. if we want this standard of stadium in this day and age these facilities HAVE to be included in order to maintain the spec of the stadium by raising revenue. For example I have done post graduate exams and job interviews throughout the UK and where have these been hosted? Yes soccer stadiums and rugby stadiums, and such a facility raises a serious amount of money! There are bar and lounge facilities which can be utilised for functions conferences etc. Now someone please tell me where else in Ulster can generate this business interest and revenue? Belfast has the biggest population, the most business and at any point in time a significant proportion of the population comes from counties all over ulster. This is the reality folks in this day and age, realise it and move with it, we are not wasting the money on a drab stadium in a drab town with no potential to utilise this potential income. Too many dinosaurs!

oso (Antrim) - Posts: 168 - 19/10/2014 09:37:32    1665069

oso Antrim
Yes, everybody that raises an issue ( of which there are many - Parking for about 7000 cars being one ) about this vanity project are ill informed and ignorant, it's only the Antrim posters that are really clued in, that possess the insight and business acumen to see and realise the full potential of the stadium for what it is !!!. Are you telling me that these state of the art conference facilities don't already exist in Ireland's 2nd largest city. If not, I must gather together a group of investors eager to explore this lucrative avenue. IMHO, if there is £77M to spent on a new stadium in the wee six, then the best place for all the obvious reasons should be somewhere in South / East Tyrone. It is after all meant to be a GAA stadium for Ulster GAA and it would be best situated in the middle of Ulster which is easily accessible to all the nine counties and has all the facilities needed for a modern stadium of which we can be all proud of.

drumlinbelt (Monaghan) - Posts: 179 - 19/10/2014 11:14:07    1665078

Does anyone know when the judicial review decision will be forthcoming?

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 09/12/2014 11:14:10    1677544

So Casement is really a rugby stadiun at heart then?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 09/12/2014 13:29:26    1677577

why is clones not deemed fit to host the ulster final here? Its the spititual home of ulster football.

we are too quick in the gaa to build grounds that will never be full.

lowballplease (Galway) - Posts: 935 - 09/12/2014 13:52:27    1677586

Well Ravenhill is definitely a GAA pitch at heart as it was used for Gaelic matches before it became a Rugby stadium.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/12/2014 13:52:36    1677587

So by building casement it gives the british exchequer a nice pay day every year which they dont get with clones. The ulster council will have to pay taxes on the gate receipts it collects in Casement, while in Lovely clones the money is tax free. Clones needs a major face lift but a certain Monaghan man put and end to that when he helped out his former club.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1929 - 09/12/2014 14:02:05    1677592

lowballplease
County: Galway
Posts: 290

1677586
why is clones not deemed fit to host the ulster final here? Its the spititual home of ulster football.

we are too quick in the gaa to build grounds that will never be full.


Totally agree, Ulster Final day in Clones is a day to behold, with a spirit and a character that will never be matched in Andersonstown.

The saying 'you don;t know what you got 'til its gone comes to mind'.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 09/12/2014 14:09:42    1677595

Just a point of order on this notion that Clones is the spiritual home of Ulster GAA - Belfast was holding Ulster finals before Clones had its first in 1904 so, if Casement does go ahead it will be good to see football finally return to its spiritual home after 100+ years in wilderness.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/12/2014 14:35:54    1677605

While Clones is a trek from most fans, the Ulster GAA's alternative solution is another trek in the opposite direction.

I understand the Antrim posters being parochial and fighting for Casement, but the only sensible and logical solution would be to locate an Ulster Provincial Stadium in a location that would give equal access to All Counties.

Everybody and their dog knows this Casement thing was pushed through by the British, in order to see the RWC hosted in Ireland. The Ulster GAA were weak minded, and afraid of the money being withdrawn. However If they had fought hard for a more central Stadium, the money would eventually have been granted, as Rugby and Soccer both already got huge grants. And the British Government would not wish to be seen as biased in their funding.

Ulster GAA has 9 counties, maybe those elected Ulster Council representatives should start considering logistics of the fans who majority fund the organisation, and consider that they drive or bus it to all games.
Yes they don't fly to Ulster Semi final's, so the airport isn't that big of "must".

At this point, I would prefer travelling to Clones than Casement.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/12/2014 17:18:15    1677665

No harm GaryMc82 but that is a load of old poppycock. There is only one city worthy of the name in Ulster and with all that goes with being a major city makes it the only sensible location for a major stadium. Yes it would be nice if it was everyones concerns could be met but the fact is you have to make these calls based on real logistics and on this basis there is no competition.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 09/12/2014 18:53:48    1677692

Gary - my thoughts are not Parochial and I have made this clear in other posts on this matter. A lot of posters on here and many Gaels would be at Casement as quick if not quicker than me with. I have always said that it makes logistical, economic and common sense to have the home of Ulster GAA somewhere that can get people there and away again relatively easy. Belfast is far better served by road, rail and air than any other part of the North. It has more accommodation than any other part and also has greater appeal for concerts etc than any green field site or small provincial town.

If I was being parochial I would suggest one of the fields on the farm in the Glens and not Belfast both for handiness and the financial reward for the family. Also, being a Derry man you must surely be aware of how much us Glens folk love Belfast! No, I am prepared to look at things from a sensible point and not let any prejudice cloud my thoughts. Its a good philosophy for life.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 09/12/2014 19:12:15    1677693

So back to my question raised yesterday. Does anyone know when the judicial review decision is due. I think all the merits and negatives of the Casement Project have been done to death already on this forum but whether we like it or not the train has left the station, its just waiting to see if planning pulls up the tracks!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 10/12/2014 09:45:02    1677744