seanfinn
County: Monaghan
Posts: 38

1635548
The best of the rest in Ulster is simply better than any other province. Maybe not by much, but better.

Not all the results back this up. Longford knocked out Derry, Laois knocked out Fermanagh and Kildare knocked out Down. Ulster might be competitive but don't confuse competitiveness with quality. There are a lot of mediocre teams up in Ulster just like there are in all the other provinces.

beir_bua (Kildare) - Posts: 746 - 12/08/2014 13:46:36    1635575

Sean your own county have played 3 teams from outside Ulster in the last 3 years, all of them from Leinster. Ye were easily beaten by Laois, beat Kildare narrowly after extra time, and got destroyed by Dublin. In between them games ye won an Ulster title. Don't forget Kildare went to Newry this year and beat Down comfortably enough, any Ulster side would tell us that it's never easy to win in Newry. And of course there is also Longfords record against Derry. No Ulster county has won an u-21 All-Ireland in the last 10 years and this apparent neglecting of underage seems to be having an affect now on the senior sides.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 12/08/2014 13:47:02    1635576

seanfinn
County: Monaghan
Posts: 38

1635548 Well Jayp, results don't agree with you. If Kildare and Meath were at our level they would have beat ourselves and Armagh. They didn't. They would be contending in league 1 football next year. They aren't. Armagh are probably the most improved side I have seen in a long while, granted. However, Westmeath lost every single league game and didn't win a championship game this year. Something more going wrong there behind the scenes is a fair conclusion. The best of the rest in Ulster is simply better than any other province. Maybe not by much, but better.


I agree that Monaghan are a stronger outfit than Meath or Kildare, But I was really shocked by Monaghan's lack of physicality against both Kildare and Dublin.
I don't know whether it was the awe of playing in Croke Park, but they weren't themselves in either of those games. You play Monaghan in Clones, and they take lumps out of you, I didn't see any of that physicality by Monaghan in Croker.

Now against Kildare, I thought maybe it was to do with the rain and very slippy ground. But against Dublin, they also tip toe'd a little. Which surprised me quite a bit.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/08/2014 13:54:16    1635583

Armagh, Monaghan and Donegal were 3 of the weakest teams in the last 8 along with Galway

sharpshooter23 (Westmeath) - Posts: 187 - 12/08/2014 13:54:55    1635585

I think we all agree that Dublin appear to be well out in front of everyone at this stage.

Given the best of Ulster and the best of Leinster shared one side of the draw this year we had Dublin, Armagh, Donegal and Monaghan make the Quart Finals from this side - I know what that tells me.

I would be of the opinion that had the best of Ulster shared their side of the draw with the best of Munster or the best of Connacht you could very well be looking at both semi finalists on that side being from Ulster with the only side I would realistically give any chance of coming through against Armagh, Donegal or Monaghan would be Mayo though I have concerns that Mayo are running out of steam this year after a couple of long and in particular mentally challenging summers.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 12/08/2014 14:08:56    1635601

beir_bua
County: Kildare
Posts: 424

1635575 seanfinn
County: Monaghan
Posts: 38

1635548
The best of the rest in Ulster is simply better than any other province. Maybe not by much, but better.

Not all the results back this up. Longford knocked out Derry, Laois knocked out Fermanagh and Kildare knocked out Down. Ulster might be competitive but don't confuse competitiveness with quality. There are a lot of mediocre teams up in Ulster just like there are in all the other provinces.

Ulster's average strength is probably stronger than Leinster. We still had 3 x teams in this year's All Ireland QF's, 4 teams in National League Div 1 next season, Almost half the teams in the top 2 football divisions are Ulster teams. It is on average a strong football province, but normally we only have one or 2 teams at a level that can challenge for the All Ireland.

Donegal are Ulster's No 1 side this year, and have been mostly top dogs since 2011.
You then have Monaghan, Armagh, Tyrone, of which I suspect Tyrone this year may have actually been the best having got more scores than Monaghan and been a man down against Armagh.
Then Derry and Down, two talented sides that are still very much a work in progress.

Cavan are solid, but lack firepower. Still have decent prospects moving forward.

Antrim and Fermanagh are substantially below those sides, and are generally Div 3/4 teams at best.

I'm not trying to rub people the wrong way on this, just trying to look at it in a factual way.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/08/2014 14:09:45    1635603

Al this arguing about how strong provinces are is laughable as it can change in any season and it depends on how you gauge strong?

If you base it on the league, Ulster has more teams in Div 1 than any other province but if you base it on championship only 4 counties in Ulster have competed in an All Ireland Final in over a quarter of century!!

Truth be told everyone bases their teams on championship and so you look at each province on their merits.
Connacht - Mayo are dominating with a resurgence possible for Roscommon and Galway
Leinster - Dublin have and will continue to dominate with possible challenges from only Meath and Kildare
Munster - Cork and Kerry continue to dominate with only Tipp to possibly improve things.
Ulster - Donegal and Monaghan are dominating with Tyrone and Derry looking like next best.

After the teams mentioned above the remaining best is anyones guess. Is Ulster strong?, Overall I'd say just as strong as Leinster and Connacht with Munster propping up but the truth is that like the Munster Hurling Championship the Ulster championship brings out the best in even to weaker counties which leads to a proper battle for honours.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 12/08/2014 14:26:00    1635621

Beir bua…Laois scraped past Fermanagh who are currently the second weakest Ulster has to offer. Derry v Longford was a big shock to all I think it's fair to say. Derry were tipped by some to win ulster and started reasonably well against Donegal. They threw in the towel after that. Down v Kildare was the only result that could say something to make my point debatable.
Soma. Longford v Derry was an anomaly. A real win for the bookies. We lost to Laois at a low ebb under poor management in 2012. EMcE brought us from divison 1 straight to division 3. Kildare did indeed deserve a win against down. So that is one real example you have….This year Leinster recorded a few wins against ulster, certainly more than last year but you keep ignoring that no leinster team (aside from the best team in the country) has been at the business end of the championship in the last 2 years.
As for U21 extrapolation….Armagh won in 2004, down (x2), cavan and Donegal all runners up. No team aside from Dublin in Leinster have won it in that time and Kildare were runners up once.
Sharpshooter, I do agree with your post. That is definite.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 12/08/2014 14:39:47    1635645