Exactly. Donegal v monaghan sell out. Their views and lack of excitement don't represent the people of ulster. Think they need to get 3 ulster panelists for their ulster matches. It's insulting having spillane doing them.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 21/07/2014 18:25:57    1623290

But if it is so negative & dour how come the game was a sell out? Those two paragons of open football Kerry & Cork played to just over 20,000 in a half empty Pairc Ui Caoimh. Neither have you answered my point about the sour & negative fallacy. Donegal do defend in numbers but they also attack in numbers with defenders regularly setting up scores & scoring themselves. They scored 0-15 yesterday & 3-16 against Antrim, hardly "negative".
Lastly, to deride Murphy's point because it was a free is laughable. Show me a score from further out this year & I will shake the hand of the man who gets it.

Muck the game is a sellout because neither Donegal or Monaghan people care how their teams play, they just want to win. Nothing wrong with that at all, both counties have had many lean years and should enjoy the good days now. If Martin McHugh is describing Donegal games as negative, uneventful and boring, which I think he did at halftime in the Derry game, then maybe if he wasn't getting paid to attend he might not go to every game. This is a man with a son playing! It is not just 'snobbish southerners' who find many of these games difficult to watch. Munster finals have smaller numbers largely because another Munster title means a lot less to Kerry and Cork, they are much more used to success, and success in Croke Park at the business end of the year.
Regarding Murphys point, it is a great effort but I always enjoy points from play much more. If long-range freetaking is your thing then you should go along to the next cic-fada, you will love it.
Finally I have been looking in the match thread and there was much more talk about what might happen in the game than what actually happened. In fact people have moved onto talking about Palestine in there now. There is no great debate about scoring, marking, man-of-the-match etc, simply because I don't think there is much that can be said about the game. Someone said they wouldn't care if Murphy played in goal as long as Donegal won, but surely when you go to a game you want to see one of the countrys best forwards show the skills he has been practicing since he was 6 years of age, rather than being turned into another body in defence?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/07/2014 18:32:46    1623304

Soma don't worry about Murphy, he will come up against weaker defences from now on in where he will get more opportunity to display his full array of talents.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 21/07/2014 20:29:10    1623439

I think you could just as easily contrast RTE's football coverage with RTE's hurling coverage, because they're covered an analyzed very differently. RTE's football analysis is pretty joyless, can be overly dour, and at times pretty sensationalist. And at times in the past, it can get too personal.

Contrast that with RTE's hurling coverage, which veers in the opposite direction. The positives in every game are celebrated, and analysts seem to revel in their enjoyment of matches more. This approach is far from perfect, as cracks can be papered over sometimes, and nasty/cynical elements of the game get shrugged off.
But compared to RTE's football coverage, I enjoy the hurling coverage alot more. And when it comes to hurling coverage, I think RTE's coverage is much better than Sky's so far (that's just my personal opinion.)

Its worth noting that RTE's hurling coverage went through a patch in the early/mid 00's where its coverage was more dour and negative. But that changed, so maybe the football analysis can be similarly re-booted

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 21/07/2014 21:07:12    1623497

ulster championships always have the biggest crowds outside of the dubs obviously even with games involving some of ulsters weaker teams which shows you it cant be all bad and the interest is huge meanwhile crowds can be very ordinary in leinster and munster

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 21/07/2014 21:07:42    1623498

fabio8 probably helps that it is competitive.

Competitive like yesterdays Ulster final or a procession like yesterdays Leinster final - give me competitive any day of the week or any weekend of the summer for that matter - others beg to differ - that is their prerogative but crowds in attendance are a very good indicator of what is going on.

What some pundit says to seek attention is neither here nor there in the bigger scheme of things when people are voting with their feet.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 21/07/2014 21:20:52    1623521

fabio8
you know that the Leinster counties would actually draw crowds like the ulster counties if dublin was in leinster and their province was competitive. Meath and Kildare already do draw crowds similar to Ulster but the rest would as well. The secret to Ulster attendances is it being so competitive for so long.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 21/07/2014 21:27:04    1623537

dublin having home advantage all the time doesnt help the whole competitive thing but still armagh and tyrone absolutely dominated ulster for years and donegal have dominated it in recent years yet crowds for antrim cavan and fermanagh games are consistently good..stop making excuses for meaths decline..meath are just not good enough right now simple as and havent been for a long time...the last time they won leinster they won it using foul play after all and were comprehensively beaten in the next match....at least next time meath supporters wont be going round on here making silly boasts about their tradition and other things

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 21/07/2014 21:36:38    1623552

on a side note how have people taken to the news that big bad sky officially have exclusive rights to dublins quarter final?

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 21/07/2014 21:40:30    1623563

jack goff meath and kildare played only 3 weeks ago and there was about only 11 thousand max between both countys at it.
as for sky sports please its so plastic
they have had what 5 or 6 matches now and its no wonder the uk viewers still dont grasp the sport
they keep going back and forth to screens and giving you endless stats instead of actually talking and giving opinions
and please its getting embarrasing with the did you see that camera angle for a free haha
i actually felt there cameras where way to distant in dr hyde park

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/07/2014 21:49:18    1623583

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 456

1623091
Gary I don't know how to respond to a post like that. I know from your posts that you love tactical battles and seeing how different managers approach games. However, if you think that the only people in the the country who really dislike dour, negative football are Pat Spillane and Kerry due to some plan they have to ensure Kerry remain the kingpins, then you are very badly mistaken. There was an excellent interview in the paper with the Galway goalkeeper from the 1960's 3-in-a-row about the way the game is currently played. He was lamenting the fact that the game has now become so dull, and stated that he only bothers watching the occasional game now, preferring to watch a hurling game instead. This is why people should be worried about negative football, as in the long-run it risks the future of the game.
It would have been fascinating yesterday if we saw McManus and Hughes take on the 2 Magees in a straight battle, and the same with Murphy, McFadden and McBrearty against Walshe and the 2 Wylies, all men going at it for the 70 minutes with the best and most skilful coming out on top. Instead we just had the trench warfare, low risk, negative game instead. This is not something that I would want any RTE analyst celebrating or promoting. It is fine for Monaghan and Donegal people maybe, but most people tune in to be entertained, and yesterdays game was very low in entertainment value.

You will always have open free flowing matches between the likes of Kerry and Dublin, Cork, Mayo, Galway, Kildare etc. So why can't we have more defensive approach amongst some other teams?

I think eventually the current defensive approach will evolve in time, and will transition to a more balanced approach. You see it in other teams sports like soccer, no set style dominates for too long. The styles that normally dominates the longest, is the Man Utd/Bayern Munich style which is a balance of defending and attacking. I believe GAA will go in that direction too, but for now I enjoy seeing top drawer managers like Malachy O'Rourke, Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness etc duel it out.

We have Kerry with 36 x All Ireland titles, and Dublin with 23 or 24. Combined they have won All Ireland titles for 60 years, and for me that is boring and kills the game as much as anything.
If a counties like Laois, Tipperary, Antrim, Sligo or Roscommon won an All Ireland SFC title, could you Imagine what that would do for the game in those counties and the neighbouting counties? The game would grow considerably I think.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 21/07/2014 21:56:38    1623594

lol, RTÉ being slammed for being negative on negative football! While it wasn't a great game it was a battle. People from negative football counties tend to be very defensive and sensitive! Innocuous comments like wanting to see champagne football win out are even seen as attack!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7869 - 22/07/2014 08:47:06    1623613

legendzxix it is all about context - Pat sitting waxing lyrical about the champagne football on display in the Leinster final when digging the Ulster final - champagne football is excellent when in a competitive game but my local team play some champagne football when they are up against much weaker opponents also.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 22/07/2014 09:57:20    1623660

Naysayer, your focusing too much on last Sunday. Attacking football has been known to win out over negative football and vice versa. Donegal were awesome in a negative approach 2 years ago. Mayo blew them out of the water last year and one semi-final produced some attacking approach from both teams.
When people pass an innocuous comment that they want to see attacking football win out, defensive counties go on the defensive and see it as attack! It's simply a desire to see a certain style of play win out.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7869 - 22/07/2014 10:12:34    1623672

legendzxix the thing is the game has been evolving for decades and will continue to evolve - people thought the black card would solve the cynical fouling which it may have done to an extent but it has seen cynicism evolved with the like of the drag down. As such why don't we savor the different approaches teams bring, the different strategic battles that are going on, the evolution of one type of approach to beat another and then another approach born to overcome that. It has been happening for a long time and will continue to happen as teams play to their strengths with the aim of victory. Can we not just be a bit more open minded about this whole evolution rather than trying to batter it down from high?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 22/07/2014 10:37:29    1623701

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 8156

1623583
jack goff meath and kildare played only 3 weeks ago and there was about only 11 thousand max between both countys at it.
as for sky sports please its so plastic
they have had what 5 or 6 matches now and its no wonder the uk viewers still dont grasp the sport
they keep going back and forth to screens and giving you endless stats instead of actually talking and giving opinions
and please its getting embarrasing with the did you see that camera angle for a free haha
i actually felt there cameras where way to distant in dr hyde park

if their cameras were way too distant that's hyde parks problem. They can't just build a big camera stand in front of the supporters on the half way line. Overall their coverage is miles ahead of RTE. If you want to hear 3 old men make funny or controversial statements then watch rte's live coverage. If you want to see more recent players actually analyze the game tactically then watch sky. Their HD quality is also much better and that makes a big difference for the hurling.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 22/07/2014 15:08:37    1624104

Jack_Goff I tend to agree with you on that one. Much as I dislike how Sky monopolize it has to be said that their Sports coverage is second to none and lets face it sadly they do not have great competition when it comes to Gaelic games.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 22/07/2014 15:31:53    1624157