The issue with RTE is 2 things?
The refuse to see competitive, hard hitting and defensive football as anything positive which is a joke.
There refusal to say anything bad about any game involving Dublin.

I class myself as a football mad guy. I went to Sligo v Limerick last week. It was a poor game but atleast there was some excitement as it was close.

Yesterday I went into town to watch the football as I couldn't make it to clones. I left just a bit into the second half of the Dublin match. It was a non contest.

So my issue with RTE in general is that they then go and slate a highly competitive Ulster match that was exactly what was expected and compare it to Champayne football non contest that was the Leinster final. Honestly I like Dublin but give me a Donegal match in Ulster anyday before seeing Dublin kick the ball around for 70minutes in Croker.


This is where the problems lie in my opinion. Obviously they are there to give their opinion but when they spend the whole half time talking complete crap as apposed to highlighting the many fine moment there were in the game.

Just to answer someones question above I normally tape both RTE and BBC as you sometimes can see stuff in one and not the other. I generally fast forward when pat talks as he is too biased for me. I feel he is outdated in terms of football and cannot see that tactics have evolved since he was playing.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 21/07/2014 14:46:01    1622989

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 7572
Donegal hardly had to break sweat yesterday. Never got into gear and won easily.

ask Ryan Mchugh if he had to break sweat yesterday, ask the Mcgees, Ask Neil gallagher,karl Lacey, in fact ask any one of them.
ridiculous comment.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 21/07/2014 14:50:52    1622999

I didn't see any of the Sunday Game live coverage but was impressed by the analysis on the highlights show.

Three lads recently out of the game, all knowledgeable and well able to put a point across in an articulate manner. No agendas, no constant moaning and harping on about the way the game was played twenty or thirty years ago, just rational and informative points being made.

I haven't seen much of Sky's coverage apart from the first two or three matches and I have to say I was impressed by it. Fair enough it'll take a while for the presenters and analysts to build up a bit of rapport with each other but so far it's been worth the watch, good analysis, interesting breakdowns of different passages of play and an insight into tactical battles. There's definitely an attempt to show the games in a positive light by focusing on many of the good aspects rather than just looking to give out for the sake of it.

As Muckrosshead said though, it's not necessarily the Sunday Game or RTE approach to things that's negative, it's just a couple of individuals who usually get the most air time.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 21/07/2014 15:02:37    1623019

1622999
MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 7572
Donegal hardly had to break sweat yesterday. Never got into gear and won easily.

Mes Amis, three Donegal players had to change jersies yesterday because of blood spill. Really your comment is ridiculous.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/07/2014 15:05:47    1623026

s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 2973

ask Ryan Mchugh if he had to break sweat yesterday, ask the Mcgees, Ask Neil gallagher,karl Lacey, in fact ask any one of them.
ridiculous comment.

It's a figure of speech.

They won handily with plenty left in the tank. Monaghan didn't push them as much as we all thought that they would.

Donegal were in control from start to finish and led the game throughout.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 21/07/2014 15:05:51    1623027

The whole "Cusack would turn in his grave" stuff proves that Spillane hasnt a notion what he's talking about. For the first 30 years or so of football, the goalposts were 17 feet either side the the goals.

So despite having a 55 foot wide area to shoot into, you'll see a lot of AI finals from the early days ended 0-4 to 0-3 and 1-1 to 0-1. I can only imagine it was torturous to watch.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1646 - 21/07/2014 15:13:03    1623038

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2893

A number of Dublin players nursing shiners and facial wounds today after the game against Meath.

Doesn't mean that Meath pushed Dublin in any way yesterday.

Your comment is fairly ridiculous when seen in that context.

Donegal were very impressive yesterday but Monaghan did not give them the game that many thought they would. Donegal controlled the game from start to finish and the result was neverreally in doubt from early on.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 21/07/2014 15:13:25    1623039

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 452

1622944
I would disagree with you on that Naysayer, Id say Canavan, McConville and Mulligan are probably very charismatic characters, just look at how they played the game for an indication of this. However, because they are unable to say anything controversial in case they offend someone, most of their comments are incredibly bland. I challenge you to be charismatic if the only topics you can speak about for 21 minutes is Donegals players pushing up on the Monaghan kick-outs, funnelling men back to fill in the gaps that were exploited last year, and 5 points from play! I actually thought RTE were careful with what they said at halftime yesterday because there has been such uproar in the past about comments made.

I wouldn't expect Oisin McConville to applaud yesterdays game, as It goes against the open attacking style that he and Crossmaglen play. While Canavan and Mulligan mighten like it, they themselves have availed of the original defensive blueprint with great success.

We all know Pat Spillane doesn't like this type of defensive football and has been a harsh critic of it ever since the Tyrone/Armagh days of 2002/2003. Naturally he prefers a style which plays into the strengths of his native Kerry. While Kerry might come short against Dublin at the minute, he knows that within a year or two Kerry will crack that nut. Because the style is suitable to their natural game, and is something they are very comfortable with.

He likes to use reverse psychology, the old "We are a poor Kerry team, trying to make our way against these big Dublin, Cork and Mayo teams". Pat Spillane is the leader in this field, a man who constantly hypes up teams he knows Kerry can and will beat. He does so to later magnify Kerry's achievement, as if against all odds they did it.

He clearly hates the Ultra defensive style, as it negates the natural style of which Kerry are the masters. He is competitive, Kerry are competitive, and naturally they want to always win. I can respect that, that is the core Inspiration of sport.
However If you take away tactical freedom from the game, It will cease to be a sport and become about entertainment like WWE wrestling.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 21/07/2014 15:16:53    1623043

Gary I don't know how to respond to a post like that. I know from your posts that you love tactical battles and seeing how different managers approach games. However, if you think that the only people in the the country who really dislike dour, negative football are Pat Spillane and Kerry due to some plan they have to ensure Kerry remain the kingpins, then you are very badly mistaken. There was an excellent interview in the paper with the Galway goalkeeper from the 1960's 3-in-a-row about the way the game is currently played. He was lamenting the fact that the game has now become so dull, and stated that he only bothers watching the occasional game now, preferring to watch a hurling game instead. This is why people should be worried about negative football, as in the long-run it risks the future of the game.
It would have been fascinating yesterday if we saw McManus and Hughes take on the 2 Magees in a straight battle, and the same with Murphy, McFadden and McBrearty against Walshe and the 2 Wylies, all men going at it for the 70 minutes with the best and most skilful coming out on top. Instead we just had the trench warfare, low risk, negative game instead. This is not something that I would want any RTE analyst celebrating or promoting. It is fine for Monaghan and Donegal people maybe, but most people tune in to be entertained, and yesterdays game was very low in entertainment value.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/07/2014 15:47:43    1623091

I believe that because GAA is new to Sky there is a lot of fresh enthusiasm from the commentators and pundits who have landed themselves a nice new salary. Similar to when we start a new job we are a lot more tolerant of certain things when we start than we would be a year or two into the job. Pat Spillane is a mirror image of BBC's Mark Lawrenson, two lads who have been in the job for years but haven't moved with the times. Yes there is a lot about the modern game that could improve but you could have said that about the game in any era in one aspect or another. Those two lads and the likes take their salaries for granted and need to know they don't get paid to complain they get paid to analyse games. If it is such a hardship to watch then hand in the old resignation and make way for the many who would no doubt be lined up around the corner for such an opportunity. So in the years to come Sky will probably lose some of that fresh enthusiasm but RTE will definitely need to gain some before they turn into full blown BBC. IMO

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 21/07/2014 15:51:50    1623100

Soma i would imagine most folks are like myself. Watch the analysis on BBC, watch the game on RTE. Sidebottom is a disaster

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 21/07/2014 16:16:31    1623126

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 453

However, if you think that the only people in the the country who really dislike dour, negative football are Pat Spillane and Kerry due to some plan they have to ensure Kerry remain the kingpins, then you are very badly mistaken.

Hold on one minute soma, Donegal scored 0-15 yesterday & scored 3-16 against Antrim so a little less of the "dour negative" if you don't mind. There is no way Donegal can play football the way Dublin or Kerry do, they don't have the players to do it & they don't come from a county where club football is played that way either. Granted it is not rip roaring stuff for the armchair viewer but there is plenty there for the real GAA person to get their mitts on. There were some great move in yesterday's game, some super fielding & great point taking from distance, Murphy from over 60 yards being the highlight

It is fine for Monaghan and Donegal people maybe, but most people tune in to be entertained, and yesterdays game was very low in entertainment value.
It is not Donegal's job to entertain anyone, especially those who want to see a spectacle akin to 8 year olds running round a school yard. Donegal went out yesterday to win a game & a full house in Clones testified to the fact that many people enjoy the style played by both teams as it would not have come as any surprise that that was what was going to happen.
A contrast in styles is great for the game & if Dublin & Donegal should meet in an AI Semi I will guarantee you 2 things
1. There will be a full house.
2 The viewing figures will be through the roof.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/07/2014 16:30:54    1623149

I wouldn't necessarily believe that it's RTE's fault. We Irish are just conditioned to be critical.

One of the funniest examples of this was Peter Canavan going to extreme lengths to tell us all (on Sky 3) how poor the 1st half of Armagh Monaghan match was. Then the camera panned back to Rachel Wyse who said something like 'and if the second half is a good as the first then we're in for a cracker'.

squareball_1988 (Donegal) - Posts: 343 - 21/07/2014 16:38:40    1623162

This is getting a bit much. I was at the match yesterday and I totally enjoyed it. 30 players giving their all and no holding back. I watch the game this morning and enjoy it again imagine if we had won. Ulster is very compeditive and u play to win at all cost. In other provinces it is easy to go out and play open football as their is a big gulf in the teams. Pundits are paid to give their views and if they were not controversial it would not be interesting . Take dunphy for instance. I for one would rather have a compeditive ulster championship with football played like this than a one where one team is so far ahead of the rest that they can play all the champagne football they like every game in the knowledge they won't be beaten.

hutto (Monaghan) - Posts: 171 - 21/07/2014 16:48:04    1623178

This is getting a bit much. I was at the match yesterday and I totally enjoyed it. 30 players giving their all and no holding back. I watch the game this morning and enjoy it again imagine if we had won. Ulster is very compeditive and u play to win at all cost. In other provinces it is easy to go out and play open football as their is a big gulf in the teams. Pundits are paid to give their views and if they were not controversial it would not be interesting . Take dunphy for instance. I for one would rather have a compeditive ulster championship with football played like this than a one where one team is so far ahead of the rest that they can play all the champagne football they like every game in the knowledge they won't be beaten.

hutto (Monaghan) - Posts: 171 - 21/07/2014 16:49:18    1623179

Muck I used the term dour negative football because apparently that is how Canavan and McConville described it at halftime - I was afraid of being labelled a brainwashed RTE watcher so used BBC NI terms. And to be fair, Murphys point was from a free was it not? Finlay and McNiollios (spelling is dodgy there!) did kick a couple of great scores though.
And while you are right that there will be big viewing figures for Dublin/Donegal, there will be the incredibly strange situation of many neutrals hoping Dublin win. I hadnt thought about it like this til now, but is this the worst aspect of it all - country people actually hoping Dublin win a game haha? In any case, whatever the figures for Donegal/Dublin, they would be even greater for Dublin/Kerry as people love to see 2 football teams get stuck into each other, with no fear or negative play. Its the same in any sport - in snooker Jimmy White is a legend though he never won a world championship because he played with style and flair - Peter Ebdon has won at least one world championship and is respected but is generally not liked by many who watch the game because he is ultra cautious and dour.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/07/2014 17:02:57    1623199

Ger Canning came out with a very lazy thrown away statement of the 90% home support at the Roscommon v Armagh game - trying to belittle the support - when in fact i believe Armagh outnumbered Roscommon - especially in the stand!!!

As regards the Ulster final - it was tension filled- hard battling game in front of a full house

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 21/07/2014 17:17:45    1623219

Sky are much better than RTE. Did you see their camera angle for the Armagh free from the sideline? Excellent stuff.

Their in their first year and already their panel is better. If you before a joke show at half time then you will be disappointed by RTE. RTE's hurling panel is top class but the football is an embarrassment to the licence payer.

Sky give us nothing but analysis and it's good at that. RTE hurling panel are on par with sky but the footballers are a laughing stock.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 21/07/2014 17:37:30    1623233

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 454

1623199
Muck I used the term dour negative football because apparently that is how Canavan and McConville described it at halftime - I was afraid of being labelled a brainwashed RTE watcher so used BBC NI terms. And to be fair, Murphys point was from a free was it not? Finlay and McNiollios (spelling is dodgy there!) did kick a couple of great scores though.
And while you are right that there will be big viewing figures for Dublin/Donegal, there will be the incredibly strange situation of many neutrals hoping Dublin win. I hadnt thought about it like this til now, but is this the worst aspect of it all - country people actually hoping Dublin win a game haha? In any case, whatever the figures for Donegal/Dublin, they would be even greater for Dublin/Kerry as people love to see 2 football teams get stuck into each other, with no fear or negative play. Its the same in any sport - in snooker Jimmy White is a legend though he never won a world championship because he played with style and flair - Peter Ebdon has won at least one world championship and is respected but is generally not liked by many who watch the game because he is ultra cautious and dour.

But if it is so negative & dour how come the game was a sell out? Those two paragons of open football Kerry & Cork played to just over 20,000 in a half empty Pairc Ui Caoimh. Neither have you answered my point about the sour & negative fallacy. Donegal do defend in numbers but they also attack in numbers with defenders regularly setting up scores & scoring themselves. They scored 0-15 yesterday & 3-16 against Antrim, hardly "negative".
Lastly, to deride Murphy's point because it was a free is laughable. Show me a score from further out this year & I will shake the hand of the man who gets it.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/07/2014 18:12:34    1623274

the main good thing about rte is donal og who again was fantastic last night on the sunday game explaining little things which a lot of non traditional hurling folk wouldnt understand especially such as the position the hurl is held in and why and various tactics..doesnt specialise in cliches which a lot of others do

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 21/07/2014 18:21:33    1623286