I can understand pulling fixtures for a championship match, but a NFL DIV 2 Final - lets face it most can't remember who won the last couple of Div 2 titles

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 22/04/2014 21:50:11    1578779

cuchulainn,
This has nothing at all to do with the Div 2 final & everything to do with meeting our neighbours Derry in the championship.

Don't forget, Derry have been flying in a division above us & are in the Div 1 final. They are on a high, playing great football & we will need everything possible to be right to have a chance at getting past them.

As has been pointed out here on numerous occasions our squad is not big & we can ill afford injuries to key players.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/04/2014 08:28:05    1578794

I think were missing the point.

Having this arrangement with a county board is very dangerous. Jim is culpable as it was one of his conditions for retaking the job. We are not talking about an elite county we are talking about a county that has one one all ireland in two decades. And if this is the way it will in all counties over time you will see the erosion of clubs and thus the Gaa in general.

It isnt rocket science there is already a big draw from soccer , rugby and countless other sports and we all know its hard to field teams for the smaller towns and villages. If we loose our clubs we will loose our counties. Every players from junior b upwards just wants to play and if the spend their summer waiting for their county team to finish then they will just go pick another sport its fairly simple. Im lucky in cork where as much as is possible they play their club matches through the summer.

Lets say that donegal go all the way to the final then they wont play a club fixture from april till the last week of september/ first week of october. Dont tell me that they can play their league games as a club you should be able to put out your strongest team for every fixture if not why bother entering a competition at all.

I think the stance taken by donegal is a disgrace and a slap in the face to all club players there. But the short sightedness is probably the biggest flaw in this plan. They may or may not have short term sucess with its current panel of players but what happens when good players leave the gaa for other sports cause they cant get a competitive game all season. Also what happens with the lack of skill sets in future players cause they dont take training seriously cause they know they havent a match for months on end .

I think anyone looking at this with real vision sees it for what it is. Jim getting the better of whats best for club and county
With specific dedication maybe Jim will win another maybe two all-ireland titles and walk into the sunshine leaving behind him an aging team with limited talent coming through to be competitive. He will have done what no one did in previous 20 yearrs and won a couple of titles. But the club structure will have been torn apart.

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 23/04/2014 11:29:57    1578907

I just read paddy Mc Brearty's interview on the mater, it is a very good insight into the issue. Checkmate as far as I can see it after reading it.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/04/2014 12:36:04    1578952

ritchie
County: Cork
Posts: 102

1578907
I think were missing the point.

Lets say that donegal go all the way to the final then they wont play a club fixture from april till the last week of september/ first week of october. Dont tell me that they can play their league games as a club you should be able to put out your strongest team for every fixture if not why bother entering a competition at all.

Interesting post ritchie, only one small flaw with it.

We had a full program of league games on Sunday with all the county players featuring.

Still, why let facts get in the way?

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/04/2014 19:26:27    1579247

MuckrossHead

obviously since im on the complete other side of the country i wouldnt be uptodate on your league fixtures. However it really isnt the point. I think you will in the fullness of time see the point im making to be valid. Im sure if your playing yourself and you cant get a championship match till september all going well for donegal you will find another out let for your sports as im sure you dont just want to train.

And as i said if this becomes the norm you will see an exedos to other sports simple as that. Donegal took 20 years to recapture the sam maguire and in my opinion leaking talent to other sports will make that feat even more difficult in the future. In the end the club should always take priority over county as its the clubs that are the life blood of the gaa and if the clubs die the intercounty games will become an irrelevance. Its great cheering on your successful county but i can tell you most players would agree with me that being sucessful with your club thrumps any intercounty success.

If you asked ben and jerry o connor with all ireland they treasure most im sure it would be their club all ireland and henry sheflin is on record as stating as such

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 24/04/2014 11:50:24    1579389

I think the stance taken by donegal is a disgrace and a slap in the face to all club players there.

ritchie,

If as you say you are at the other side of the country & not up to date then you should not make comments like the above.

The reason JMcG asked for the players to be excused from playing on Good Fri was that they had just arrived home from a tough training camp in Portugal late on Thursday night, would have had a game on Friday & another on Sun.

Now we have fellas on here complaining about player welfare, then complain when a manager looks out for his players. We can't have it every way but I think JMcG was quite right. The clubs could have played the fixtures without the county players as they did the previous Sunday but chose not to. This is not a "Donegal" stance as in county board or management, it came from the clubs & that is, I think, where the blame lies

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 24/04/2014 13:42:55    1579449

Kildare inter-county players didn't play league games at all during McGeeney's time. By getting all specific about Donegal you're all very obtusely missing the point.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 24/04/2014 14:51:01    1579491

Well said doublehop.

Since Jim Mc Guinness took over at Donegal and DARED to be different the media driven agenda against Donegal has continued. Other counties can do whatever they want but as soon as Donegal do something that is even remotely controversial the headlines appear. Donegal do this... Donegal do that....Now Donegal are doing this. Croke Park is no different in their anti-donegal stance. The County Board was called before them when they added money onto the ticket price prior to the All Ireland in 2012 yet when Mayo were offering additional tickets to clubs for the same game and charging extra they weren't questioned. The same has happened with the DCB decision to delay the club championship, this has gone on in other counties but it was Donegal that had to travel to HQ to explain their decision.

Dublin seem to think that its 31 counties against them but in Donegal we are thinking its 31 counties, the media and the hierarchy of the GAA that are against us.

As regards to a dictatorship as in the thread. All decisions made about county championship delay and calling off league games were requests from the county management, voted on by the clubs and therefore decided by the clubs. Thats called a democracy for those who don't know!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 24/04/2014 15:41:15    1579519

It is an issue for sure, there are going to be club players emigrating or playing soccer this summer in donegal if there is no gaa club football. It is sad to see, but it would be a lot worse were donegal to travel up to donegal and get hammered by a bigger team again this year. This would certainly be the case were club football to go ahead. You would nearly be better off having a crack at the champoinship every other year and having a strong club year in the regrouping year. There is no point in falling 100% on either side of the fence as both are equally detrimental to the health of the game.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 24/04/2014 17:53:01    1579606

Ritchie.
In my opinion Jim McGuinness was right in making his stand as regards training and managing the County team He is right to demand he has access to the full panel at all times There was a vote taken on the issue and it was agreed to postpone the championship until the County is out of the championship. I can't see many Donegal clubs complaining or people complaining if they are heading to Donegal town on the Monday after the All Ireland to greet a winning team. This team is not going to go on forever and neither will Jim be manager forever We might win another All Ireland or two and then again we might not But let's us do everything to try and achieve another one. So let's rally behind Jim and the team for at least another year
As regards It taking Donegal 20 years to regain the Sam ,did it not take Cork as long ??
I agree with the post about an anti Donegal thing going on and especially with Croke park. But I would not worry about that. I had a banner made up for the 2012 All Ireland :::: it read like this ::::
Neither King, Queen nor country ,Our allegence is to DONEGAL and DONEGAL ALONE

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 24/04/2014 20:22:50    1579671

24/04/2014 20:22:50
SamOnErrigal
County: Donegal
Posts: 143

1579671
Ritchie.
In my opinion Jim McGuinness was right in making his stand as regards training and managing the County team He is right to demand he has access to the full panel at all times There was a vote taken on the issue and it was agreed to postpone the championship until the County is out of the championship. I can't see many Donegal clubs complaining or people complaining if they are heading to Donegal town on the Monday after the All Ireland to greet a winning team. This team is not going to go on forever and neither will Jim be manager forever We might win another All Ireland or two and then again we might not But let's us do everything to try and achieve another one. So let's rally behind Jim and the team for at least another year
As regards It taking Donegal 20 years to regain the Sam ,did it not take Cork as long ??
I agree with the post about an anti Donegal thing going on and especially with Croke park. But I would not worry about that. I had a banner made up for the 2012 All Ireland :::: it read like this ::::
Neither King, Queen nor country ,Our allegence is to DONEGAL and DONEGAL ALONE


Youve missed the point completely , most who are against county championship postponements have already said they are against them in all counties and rather than bring it down to Pro Jim or anti Jim , most outrage is from people who are PRO the club player , Jim is the poster boy for the be all and end all that represents county ambition , but is by no means alone .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 24/04/2014 20:30:22    1579677

Damothedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1639


Youve missed the point completely , most who are against county championship postponements have already said they are against them in all counties and rather than bring it down to Pro Jim or anti Jim , most outrage is from people who are PRO the club player , Jim is the poster boy for the be all and end all that represents county ambition , but is by no means alone .

But what are we to do damo? The odds are stacked against us as it stands & if counties with small squads are to compete for honours at a national level then they must take every precaution & advantage they can. If we really want the same policy throughout Ireland then let that equality permeate all levels of the game.
1 Dublin, the best team in the country, playing their fair share of games away from home.
2 Games being played at follower friendly venues & not pulling us to Croke Park every turnabout.
3 Provincial championships being levelled out in difficulty so that one team isn't knackered while another strolls through.

We realised a long time ago that if we are to succeed then we have to reach out & take it using whatever fair means possible & if that means county players being rested from some games then so what?.

As to the rubbish spoken about the club players, there is no reason why league fixtures can't take place during the summer months without the county players on occasion. There is plenty of football to go around & it might indeed give a few more players a chance to perform & give clubs without county players a chance to go for honours.

I can see why the clubs wouldn't want to play championship without their best players, but unless your county reaches the AI final then there is plenty of time.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 24/04/2014 20:54:22    1579685

Damothedub
Donegal came back last Thursday from a week out in Portugal so I can't see how people would expect the members of the panel to go out and play last weekend and a big game in front of them in Croke park this weekend. A few weeks time we have the first round of the championship so I can see why JMcG wants a fully fit and hopefully injury free panel Club players will have plenty of time to play in the coming months alough without their county men. J McG gave an insight into the disruptions in the panel last year because of injuries, some of the players took part in less than 50/ per cent of training sessions. Now there is no way you could get a team ready to challenge for the All Ireland under those circumstances. This is why we should observe the wishes of the management and put in one big effort to retain Sam I don't see why the rest of the country should be too worried what Donegal does , as that's up to ourselves to sort out. One thing I don't want iss to see a weakened Donegal team ,with players not fit enough going out to play in the championship.
I'm not worried about what point I'm supposed to be missing ,all I want to see THIS YEAR is a successful Donegal team ,where the end justifies the means.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 24/04/2014 21:38:57    1579709

I feel for the lad who just wants to play for his club at the weekend and I think its crazy that he has to sit by and wait until the intercounty team loses , equally I think Muckross you make some valid points and if Donegal want to win Sam they have a right to try and give themselves the best advantage. Although I not sure this is the right way to go.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 24/04/2014 21:45:18    1579712

Muckrosshead
Very well said and you are spot on The point that nobody has made is that if we don't get to the All Ireland final then our championship won't be that late. We would have more or less 8weeks to play it off which would bring us towards then end of October. Don't forget Donegal are not going to reach every All Ireland final or Semi final for that matter, but we have a panel that could do it this year. So I think it is quite right to give the management and squad every chance to succeed this year. We played club games all through 2012 and it can be done again. But we want to spare the county players and hopefully they will avoid injuries. Are some of these posters from different counties beginning to fear Donegal and see them as serious All Ireland contenders.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 24/04/2014 21:51:26    1579716

All this talk of lads leaving, losing interest, heading away etc...one thing would solve this all, but the GAA will not do it, or maybe other counties do it and my own does not - Saturday games.

This would see a dramatic upsurge in people playing the game. Thus really cutting the legs off the argument that the many are sacrificed in order to satisfy the few.

I firmly believe this.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 24/04/2014 21:52:19    1579717

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3017

1579712
I feel for the lad who just wants to play for his club at the weekend and I think its crazy that he has to sit by and wait until the intercounty team loses , equally I think Muckross you make some valid points and if Donegal want to win Sam they have a right to try and give themselves the best advantage. Although I not sure this is the right way to go.

Exactly what I think. I dont think there is a right way to go either. It is a check mate situation. Look what happened a very strong Cork team last weekend, and they are putting in serious work with a very big squad and a new manager. If you go to croke park with the true amateur ethos you will get beaten out the gate in the first 20 minutes never mind 70

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 24/04/2014 21:53:59    1579718

Some of the Donegal lads are getting a bit defensive. Ritchie from Cork and Damothedub for instance give a different perpespective on this. The point too is Dublin and Cork are very much duel code counties, not only do they have the issues with County versus Club, but problems between both codes as well at all levels of the game.

If as the Donegal lads say that the suspension of club activity will benefit the county team, it is surely easy to conclude that it is a very short term, short sighted goal. All the lads from other counties are pointing out is the long term consequences of this.

Its all about balance, and doing what is right for your county. I personally think this is not a sustanable model or template for other counties to follow. You may (and its a long shot) get Sam this year or even the next but it will be at the cost of a thriving club scene which is vital to produce the players to sustain your county panels.

Clearly you all feel this is for the best, well good luck with it.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 25/04/2014 08:32:21    1579729

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3019

1579712
I feel for the lad who just wants to play for his club at the weekend and I think its crazy that he has to sit by and wait until the intercounty team loses.

AthCliath,

If the club players had to sit twiddling their thumbs all summer then I would agree with you. But as I have said the league can be played without the county players. We also have the Gaeltacht competiton which many of our clubs take part in not to mention the under age champonships.

I agree that this hasn't been well handled here but don't forget this was only one round of games, due to be held on Good Fri, there was a full round of games held on Easter Sun in which the county players took full part having had a couple of days to recover from the trip to Portugal.

Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/04/2014 08:43:49    1579733