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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Cluxton is the best keeper I have seen but I too was unsure of his comeback for 2 reasons. Upsetting the other 2 Keepers and his age. Then I saw him misjudge a ball in croke park for one game where he thought it was a point and ran around the goal for quick kickout but the ball hit crossbar and nearly a goal. Also he fluffed a ball v Monaghan so I thought he might be a weakness too. I was wrong. Pat was wrong! But why try use this a cheapshot. Many Dublin friends of mine were very unsure of his comeback and two ex Dublin footballers i spoke to thought it was a bad move. We were all wrong. Enjoy the win Joxer. Why try score points now." I think maybe Pat Spillane provokes reaction/point scoring with his choice of language and his tendency to over-dramatise. Sure lots of us were unsure of the wisdom of the move but that's not the same as labelling Cluxton's comeback a "JOKE". So I'm afraid I think it's more than fair to throw this one back at Pat and I'm sure he can take it.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 687 - 01/08/2023 14:20:04
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Cluxton is the best keeper I have seen but I too was unsure of his comeback for 2 reasons. Upsetting the other 2 Keepers and his age. Then I saw him misjudge a ball in croke park for one game where he thought it was a point and ran around the goal for quick kickout but the ball hit crossbar and nearly a goal. Also he fluffed a ball v Monaghan so I thought he might be a weakness too. I was wrong. Pat was wrong! But why try use this a cheapshot. Many Dublin friends of mine were very unsure of his comeback and two ex Dublin footballers i spoke to thought it was a bad move. We were all wrong. Enjoy the win Joxer. Why try score points now." Yeah, a fairly error strewn season given how little he was tested. Should've smothered Geaney when he hesitated for the goal too.
Look at the impact Shane Ryan had for Kerry, kicking out to players who are actually marked, linking up in open play, taking scores from play, making a critical save v Derry and then brilliantly saving a point on Sunday (which unfortunately his defenders were too slow to react to).
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5026 - 01/08/2023 14:24:44
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Replying To Joxer: "It's not a cheap shot Mick. On the contrary Spillane was having a cheap shot at the Dublin management team and disrespecting the greatest goalkeeper to have ever played the game. Spillane was deliberately stirring it up, we all know that, and it's no harm to point out that this came back to haunt him. Cluxton has been magnificent since his return, keeper, scorer, leader. His value to any team should never be called a "joke" especially by somebody who is supposed to be an expert on the game." Joxer nó one is denying Cluxton brilliance and maybe Pats choice of words were nt bright but tbf Pat has alway spoke highly of Cluxton. My point is many Dubs too thought it was a mistake. It turned out not to be
For the record Im not overly enamoured with Pats punditry because of his bias towards Kerry but he has given great praise to Dublin which brings me to Paul Flynn who only has eyes for Dublin a d looks on Kerry with disdain and cheap shots.My wife who is not from Kerry even commented to me even when Enda McGinley said James Mac probably should have been put off Flynn switches the subject. He constantly tries to swat away from praising Clifford and gets visibly upset when Clifford is praised. Peter Canavan even sniggered at him recently over it saying he trying to rile Kerry folk. Also Oisín McConville called him out for his pure bieasd view on a podcast a couple of years ago. Personally I don't think pundits should be allowed on when their teams are involved altho I do find Ciarán Whelan to be very good and fair. I also think Enda McGinley and Sean Cavanagh are very good and fair too.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 01/08/2023 15:49:31
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Joxer nó one is denying Cluxton brilliance and maybe Pats choice of words were nt bright but tbf Pat has alway spoke highly of Cluxton. My point is many Dubs too thought it was a mistake. It turned out not to be
For the record Im not overly enamoured with Pats punditry because of his bias towards Kerry but he has given great praise to Dublin which brings me to Paul Flynn who only has eyes for Dublin a d looks on Kerry with disdain and cheap shots.My wife who is not from Kerry even commented to me even when Enda McGinley said James Mac probably should have been put off Flynn switches the subject. He constantly tries to swat away from praising Clifford and gets visibly upset when Clifford is praised. Peter Canavan even sniggered at him recently over it saying he trying to rile Kerry folk. Also Oisín McConville called him out for his pure bieasd view on a podcast a couple of years ago. Personally I don't think pundits should be allowed on when their teams are involved altho I do find Ciarán Whelan to be very good and fair. I also think Enda McGinley and Sean Cavanagh are very good and fair too." Totally agree on Flynn. Great player, dreadful pundit totally biased. McConville owned him on Second Captains I think it was. McConville called out Brolly before on the GAA social podcast. Calling out Brolly for his shock tactics and flip flopping on various issues. McConville is great.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7912 - 01/08/2023 16:23:12
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "A few of those frees were indeed from fouls from Fitzsimmons. Clifford has scored 9 points from play and 2 marks v Fitzsimmons in his last 3 championship games. Just google the statistics. David has played 4 championship games v Dublin. 2019 draw (marked by Cooper before red card) and different markers afterwards. David scored 2 points. Replay marked by Mick Fitz he scores 5 points (4 from play). 2022 semi he scored 6 points (3 from play) and a mark. This year 3 points (2 from play). These are facts. Of course I'm backing up my own but I watch game again Clifford burned Mick Fitz on a few occasions but it was his shooting that left him down. David has been marshaller well before but Cork are the team that have held him best. Clifford is being judged by his own high standards. Look at Con who was very quiet and Clifford brilliantly set up a goal s ored two excellent points from play. Fouled for another and set up another few scores. If it was anyone else they say he had a good final and a bit more luck he d have scored 1-8 or 1-9.Clifford won nearly every single ball off Mick and got inside him but his shooting was askew." To be honest if Mick held him to an average of 3 points per game from play then I'd take that any day against one of the best forwards in the country. Clifford's shot selection was poor on a couple of occasions, from poor angles. For the goal Fitzy deliberately showed him the end line as Clifford always wants to cut back in on his left. Fitzy expected the covering defender to trap Clifford but he got there late unable to prevent a great right footed pass to Geaney. Mannion should have scored 1-4 from play but for his last point that he blasted over from point blank range. He missed an easy point just before that also. These lads aren't robots though. The winning and losing of the game was down to the contrasting performance of these two players IMO.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4703 - 01/08/2023 16:29:26
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Replying To Joxer: "To be honest if Mick held him to an average of 3 points per game from play then I'd take that any day against one of the best forwards in the country. Clifford's shot selection was poor on a couple of occasions, from poor angles. For the goal Fitzy deliberately showed him the end line as Clifford always wants to cut back in on his left. Fitzy expected the covering defender to trap Clifford but he got there late unable to prevent a great right footed pass to Geaney. Mannion should have scored 1-4 from play but for his last point that he blasted over from point blank range. He missed an easy point just before that also. These lads aren't robots though. The winning and losing of the game was down to the contrasting performance of these two players IMO." Fair enough Joxer.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 01/08/2023 16:32:50
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Joxer nó one is denying Cluxton brilliance and maybe Pats choice of words were nt bright but tbf Pat has alway spoke highly of Cluxton. My point is many Dubs too thought it was a mistake. It turned out not to be
For the record Im not overly enamoured with Pats punditry because of his bias towards Kerry but he has given great praise to Dublin which brings me to Paul Flynn who only has eyes for Dublin a d looks on Kerry with disdain and cheap shots.My wife who is not from Kerry even commented to me even when Enda McGinley said James Mac probably should have been put off Flynn switches the subject. He constantly tries to swat away from praising Clifford and gets visibly upset when Clifford is praised. Peter Canavan even sniggered at him recently over it saying he trying to rile Kerry folk. Also Oisín McConville called him out for his pure bieasd view on a podcast a couple of years ago. Personally I don't think pundits should be allowed on when their teams are involved altho I do find Ciarán Whelan to be very good and fair. I also think Enda McGinley and Sean Cavanagh are very good and fair too." Fair enough Mick but we're talking about Spillane here. If we wanted to widen the debate to bias punditry in general then we could talk about a lot of the Kerry media cohort also. I listened to the game back on Radio Kerry with Tim Moynihan and Ambrose O'Donovan where Moynihan was crowing on about Gough not giving frees against "the townies". Kerry media people have form here with Gough and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But on Spillane, he knew what he was doing, trying to influence public opinion (including Dubs) on the decision to bring back the greatest. I was at every game that Cluxton played and bar one or two slips, he was flawless, immaculate distribution, some fantastic reflex saves, solid under the high ball, 2 arrowed points in a final. He's on the team of the year and will likely get an all-star. Beggan is the only keeper who comes close IMO. Spillane's comments backfired on him and the joke remains on him.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4703 - 01/08/2023 16:43:14
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Totally agree on Flynn. Great player, dreadful pundit totally biased. McConville owned him on Second Captains I think it was. McConville called out Brolly before on the GAA social podcast. Calling out Brolly for his shock tactics and flip flopping on various issues. McConville is great." I think Flynn has a bit to learn, being new to the game and still having ex team mates on the pitch. His bias will water down with time. McConville is very good and generally impartial unlike other Ulster pundits who just circle the wagons when it comes to all Ulster teams. Canavan is awful.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4703 - 01/08/2023 17:20:05
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Totally agree on Flynn. Great player, dreadful pundit totally biased. McConville owned him on Second Captains I think it was. McConville called out Brolly before on the GAA social podcast. Calling out Brolly for his shock tactics and flip flopping on various issues. McConville is great." I agree MC Conville is very good. In fairness besides Brolly who was egotistic and nasty some of the best pundits are from the North. Anthony Tohill was very good. Oisín McConville excellent and Enda McGinley and Canavan are very good. Think Sean Cavanagh not bad either. Lee Keegan coming into his own and I do like Whelan. I do think though pundits should nt be on when their own counties are playing.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 01/08/2023 17:31:28
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Replying To Joxer: "Fair enough Mick but we're talking about Spillane here. If we wanted to widen the debate to bias punditry in general then we could talk about a lot of the Kerry media cohort also. I listened to the game back on Radio Kerry with Tim Moynihan and Ambrose O'Donovan where Moynihan was crowing on about Gough not giving frees against "the townies". Kerry media people have form here with Gough and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But on Spillane, he knew what he was doing, trying to influence public opinion (including Dubs) on the decision to bring back the greatest. I was at every game that Cluxton played and bar one or two slips, he was flawless, immaculate distribution, some fantastic reflex saves, solid under the high ball, 2 arrowed points in a final. He's on the team of the year and will likely get an all-star. Beggan is the only keeper who comes close IMO. Spillane's comments backfired on him and the joke remains on him." Of course Kerry radio is biased. It's local. So it's a joke now on Pat. Not disputing Cluxton at all but note you did nt give any mention to Shane Ryan who was outstanding too even in the final and might have saved Smalls shot only for the deflection. On Gough if you look back on posts b4 final alot of Dublin posters were giving out about Gough and the booing on Sunday came mostly from Dublin supporters afterwards. Honestly Gough could gave put off Jamesie but he did nt and on today fm yesterday Dick Ckerkin and Ray Silke felt Gough did nt as Jamsie was captain só Gough did nt do Dublin too much harm. Anyway I'm glad that diid nt happen tbh. James Mac plays on the edge but I can't think of many players I admire more. I will admit I'm taking this defeat worse than any since 2011 but I'm glad James Mccarthy got to lift Sam (wish it was nt v Kerry though) and secretly I'm glad for Dessie too who I always felt was treated unfairly.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 01/08/2023 17:41:53
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Replying To Joxer: "Fair enough Mick but we're talking about Spillane here. If we wanted to widen the debate to bias punditry in general then we could talk about a lot of the Kerry media cohort also. I listened to the game back on Radio Kerry with Tim Moynihan and Ambrose O'Donovan where Moynihan was crowing on about Gough not giving frees against "the townies". Kerry media people have form here with Gough and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But on Spillane, he knew what he was doing, trying to influence public opinion (including Dubs) on the decision to bring back the greatest. I was at every game that Cluxton played and bar one or two slips, he was flawless, immaculate distribution, some fantastic reflex saves, solid under the high ball, 2 arrowed points in a final. He's on the team of the year and will likely get an all-star. Beggan is the only keeper who comes close IMO. Spillane's comments backfired on him and the joke remains on him." You didn't just write "solid under the high ball" did you? Dear lord!
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5026 - 01/08/2023 17:47:44
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Replying To Joxer: "Fair enough Mick but we're talking about Spillane here. If we wanted to widen the debate to bias punditry in general then we could talk about a lot of the Kerry media cohort also. I listened to the game back on Radio Kerry with Tim Moynihan and Ambrose O'Donovan where Moynihan was crowing on about Gough not giving frees against "the townies". Kerry media people have form here with Gough and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But on Spillane, he knew what he was doing, trying to influence public opinion (including Dubs) on the decision to bring back the greatest. I was at every game that Cluxton played and bar one or two slips, he was flawless, immaculate distribution, some fantastic reflex saves, solid under the high ball, 2 arrowed points in a final. He's on the team of the year and will likely get an all-star. Beggan is the only keeper who comes close IMO. Spillane's comments backfired on him and the joke remains on him." Ambrose is excellent but Tim Moynihan has only green and gold tinted glasses. They're great to listen to though. Such passion. I think a bit of bias on local radio is acceptable. Rte needs to have neutral commentary and analysis.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2185 - 01/08/2023 17:48:13
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Replying To SimonstownBack: "BBC coverage had Maurice Deegan on who explained in real time why Gough was correct. Pity RTE don't have the same." Sky Sports be at the same rubbish in soccer… bring in an ex ref to deliberate over controversial decisions and every time he finds a way to make out that the referee is right….. It's a bit like Guards and politicians investigating themselves….ends up a complete waste of time… It's one thing RTE should stay well clear off… they are bad enough
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1973 - 01/08/2023 18:06:10
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "A referee said yesterday that when the ref changed his mind and found both players equally culpable then he should have brought the ball b ack to the original spot and given Kerry an indirect free. Basically Kerry have the ball. Not sure how true this is." This is what I said all along Mick…. and if a referee told you this himself then it's either true or there is a huge problem with the rules and how they are implemented by different officials within the GAA… Farcical if truth be told..
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1973 - 01/08/2023 18:17:33
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Joxer nó one is denying Cluxton brilliance and maybe Pats choice of words were nt bright but tbf Pat has alway spoke highly of Cluxton. My point is many Dubs too thought it was a mistake. It turned out not to be
For the record Im not overly enamoured with Pats punditry because of his bias towards Kerry but he has given great praise to Dublin which brings me to Paul Flynn who only has eyes for Dublin a d looks on Kerry with disdain and cheap shots.My wife who is not from Kerry even commented to me even when Enda McGinley said James Mac probably should have been put off Flynn switches the subject. He constantly tries to swat away from praising Clifford and gets visibly upset when Clifford is praised. Peter Canavan even sniggered at him recently over it saying he trying to rile Kerry folk. Also Oisín McConville called him out for his pure bieasd view on a podcast a couple of years ago. Personally I don't think pundits should be allowed on when their teams are involved altho I do find Ciarán Whelan to be very good and fair. I also think Enda McGinley and Sean Cavanagh are very good and fair too." It all depends where you're listening from. To me listening as a Dub any praise I've heard from Cavanagh, McConville and Canavan (obviously three great players) towards Dublin has been through gritted teeth whereas when they have an opportunity to criticise Dublin their glee is palpable.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 687 - 01/08/2023 19:40:21
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Replying To sam1884: "I'm looking forward to the game but I don't think it'll be as close as everyone is predicting by the end. The backbone of this Dublin team have nothing to prove and their legacy is formed already. To win one more All Ireland would be their biggest win yet in my opinion and I can see why they're putting everything into it. The reality is a lot of this Dublin team were at the centre of those epic Mayo battles six or seven years ago.
In the other corner is a new Kerry team starting out with one All Ireland already in the bag. I think Kerry back themselves to win a number of All Ireland's in a row and it would be a big defeat if they can't get over a Dublin team ready to leave the stage. Kerry as always have managed the media but I think they're quietly very confident of winning this.
Kerry to win by seven plus. If Dublin win, they'll enjoy it more than the rest; I don't see them having the energy left going into the last 15 against this Kerry team. They've had an epic decade but time catches up with all great champions." Well that post went well..... ;o)
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 01/08/2023 20:00:08
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Replying To Joxer: "I think Flynn has a bit to learn, being new to the game and still having ex team mates on the pitch. His bias will water down with time. McConville is very good and generally impartial unlike other Ulster pundits who just circle the wagons when it comes to all Ulster teams. Canavan is awful." Of course they going to be bias towards their own
Greenandgoldie (Westmeath) - Posts: 98 - 01/08/2023 20:39:56
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Replying To Aoife1234: "Is it time to have a conversation about increasing the length of matches? I know with added time games often end up being de facto 40 minutes or so a half. But should we formalise things and increase halves to 2 x 40? Players will surely have the physical conditioning to do it. And it might help to stretch tight games. Good games in particular seem to go by too quickly. We're 40 minute halves tried previously?" Instead of increasing the halves to 40 minutes, I'd much rather they keep it at 35 minutes and introduce a stop clock for any unforeseen stoppages.
And that way avoid the need for "additional time" which at the moment is a fiasco as refs seem to arbitrarily add on as much time as they deem fit, and no one in the stadium has a clue when the match is going to finish!
Ironically enough on Sunday, I think Gough blew it pretty much on the 6 minutes but it usually goes well over.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 01/08/2023 20:41:30
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I'd be a bit disillusioned with it all, dublin and kerry dominating and even the fact that the big referee calls seem to go their way against other teams. Note McCarthy's comments about the hurt from the last two years. Talk about a lack of self awareness towards all those from other counties.
gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 636 - 01/08/2023 21:13:59
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "A referee said yesterday that when the ref changed his mind and found both players equally culpable then he should have brought the ball b ack to the original spot and given Kerry an indirect free. Basically Kerry have the ball. Not sure how true this is." This is the rule when the referee stops the play to deal with an injury. The team in procession at the time of stoppage in play receives an indirect freekick.
Technically this was the case last Sunday. While Dublin did score from the resultant play, I don't think that this incident decided the match
Jack L (None) - Posts: 3103 - 01/08/2023 21:28:27
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