National Forum

Hamstrings & Cruciate

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What is going on with these injuries. Player's out for over a year with cruciate ruptures and months with hamstrings. Players would get hamstrings and often play through them or at least be available for the next game. The GAA and the GPA might be better employed investigating player welfare that arguing over other things. These supposedly god like coaches and trainers must have some responsibility for this.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2672 - 28/03/2022 17:12:30    2407836

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Replying To Canuck:  "What is going on with these injuries. Player's out for over a year with cruciate ruptures and months with hamstrings. Players would get hamstrings and often play through them or at least be available for the next game. The GAA and the GPA might be better employed investigating player welfare that arguing over other things. These supposedly god like coaches and trainers must have some responsibility for this."
Over training. The players are amateurs and simply can't dedicate the same amount of time pro's do to prehab. Also pro's obviously have more time and resources dedicated to recovery.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9171 - 29/03/2022 09:10:22    2407930

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Over training. The players are amateurs and simply can't dedicate the same amount of time pro's do to prehab. Also pro's obviously have more time and resources dedicated to recovery."
The pro's are training and playing for one team at a time too, not finishing a long club season, then straight into intercounty training. They have a break in preseason too and no work distractions. Or if they had some young players studying they're not playing for the college and the reserve team in the same week never mind the same day. But sure that's the beauty for fulltime players, that's their job. They're the club's assets and can dedicate more time to prehab, nutrition, training, rest etc. The AFL teams do hardcore preseason training and very little training during the season but GAA players can't take two months off to go into county camp, unless, maybe, they're students. The fulltime professional game isn't for everyone though. But more and more footballers and hurlers are as dedicated as professional athletes and moreso in many cases.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7380 - 29/03/2022 09:59:14    2407957

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "The pro's are training and playing for one team at a time too, not finishing a long club season, then straight into intercounty training. They have a break in preseason too and no work distractions. Or if they had some young players studying they're not playing for the college and the reserve team in the same week never mind the same day. But sure that's the beauty for fulltime players, that's their job. They're the club's assets and can dedicate more time to prehab, nutrition, training, rest etc. The AFL teams do hardcore preseason training and very little training during the season but GAA players can't take two months off to go into county camp, unless, maybe, they're students. The fulltime professional game isn't for everyone though. But more and more footballers and hurlers are as dedicated as professional athletes and moreso in many cases."
True that. It might not happen so much nowadays but I definitely know of some county players who travelled home midweek for county training, did a hard session, then drove back to Dubin afterwards. Stiff as a board by the time they got back late at night. A scenario that any professional sportsperson would consider complete & utter madness.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9171 - 29/03/2022 10:16:43    2407967

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Over training. The players are amateurs and simply can't dedicate the same amount of time pro's do to prehab. Also pro's obviously have more time and resources dedicated to recovery."
Definitely right, over training and all the emphasis on running. Tyrone's goal on Sunday straight after Kerry's goes to show a ball travels faster than running.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2019 - 29/03/2022 10:34:34    2407981

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Definitely right, over training and all the emphasis on running. Tyrone's goal on Sunday straight after Kerry's goes to show a ball travels faster than running."
Yeah that's true. What a peach of a ball it was too and expertly dispatched by McCurry.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9171 - 29/03/2022 10:42:50    2407987

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Most of these injuries seem to occur early season, you have players at different fitness levels and overly eager coaches putting too much load on early, a more gradual approach with increasing intensity and also some understanding is what's needed. Tired and tight hamstrings and quads lead to knee injuries so you have to build up rather than killing players early on.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1599 - 29/03/2022 10:46:26    2407993

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A genuine question. Are the rates of hamstring injuries in the GAA higher than those in other sports, rugby, soccer, Aussie Rules etc.?
The fact that the players can't dedicate anywhere near as much time to recovery and injury prevention exercises as pro athletes would be a factor, if so. Sitting in an office all day can lead to a lot of muscle imbalances and weaknesses, as of course can driving for long periods every day.
Most physical trainers with county teams nowadays are smart people. It's in their interest to ensure players avoid injury, so I wouldn't be as simplistic to say that the type of training is bad across the board.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2058 - 29/03/2022 11:11:56    2408010

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Replying To Canuck:  "What is going on with these injuries. Player's out for over a year with cruciate ruptures and months with hamstrings. Players would get hamstrings and often play through them or at least be available for the next game. The GAA and the GPA might be better employed investigating player welfare that arguing over other things. These supposedly god like coaches and trainers must have some responsibility for this."
Hahah
Right on time..
Don't mention this thread to the Mayo lads as they're just unlucky apparently...they can do no wrong.

Vish (USA) - Posts: 89 - 29/03/2022 11:21:51    2408016

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "A genuine question. Are the rates of hamstring injuries in the GAA higher than those in other sports, rugby, soccer, Aussie Rules etc.?
The fact that the players can't dedicate anywhere near as much time to recovery and injury prevention exercises as pro athletes would be a factor, if so. Sitting in an office all day can lead to a lot of muscle imbalances and weaknesses, as of course can driving for long periods every day.
Most physical trainers with county teams nowadays are smart people. It's in their interest to ensure players avoid injury, so I wouldn't be as simplistic to say that the type of training is bad across the board."
That's true. I work from home in an office and the furthest I move all day is downstairs for lunch. I play a bit of soccer in the Donegal league which is obviously miles below the levels of intensity thsat county players operate at. But all the same, I find myself trying to get to training and games earlier and earlier to get a good warmup and stretch in. Of course my advancing years is also a significant factor!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9171 - 29/03/2022 11:31:59    2408025

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Replying To Vish:  "Hahah
Right on time..
Don't mention this thread to the Mayo lads as they're just unlucky apparently...they can do no wrong."
On that,
The very best wishes to the Mayo player who I would say certainly ruptured his ACL if not every ligament in his knee on Sunday. A really really tough thing to have witnessed. I've ruptured my own cruciate and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 29/03/2022 12:32:32    2408054

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Definitely right, over training and all the emphasis on running. Tyrone's goal on Sunday straight after Kerry's goes to show a ball travels faster than running."
It was a class goal. I'm trying to teach my 12 year old daughter that the ball travels fast on the pitch but her brain needs to be thinking quicker than the ball moving to read the play and react to it. Tyrone are timing their season nicely Saynothing.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7380 - 29/03/2022 13:08:29    2408067

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Replying To Canuck:  "What is going on with these injuries. Player's out for over a year with cruciate ruptures and months with hamstrings. Players would get hamstrings and often play through them or at least be available for the next game. The GAA and the GPA might be better employed investigating player welfare that arguing over other things. These supposedly god like coaches and trainers must have some responsibility for this."
Is there any recent data on this? There was study done in around 2015 showing that there was a two fold increase in hamstring injuries across all field sports in the 5 year period - or something like that. Not just GAA.
My theory is that its down to gym work not being completed correctly. Too many players do push exercises and over load the quads which can create an imbalance which is also likely a big contributor to ACL injuries.
I've nothing to back this up but I would have thought the incidents of both seems to have reduced a lot at inter county level from what i have seen but would love if anyone had any stats on this...
Most regular GAA players is probably only doing static stretching and basic hypertrophy type gym work which is being shown to be of very little benefit to what is required for field sports.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 29/03/2022 14:29:49    2408110

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I'd say there are a lot of spoofers out there as well when it comes to injury prevention and rehab. This is in no way a dig at anyone posting here by the way. But you do see lads posting content on Instagram and the like, and you'd wonder just what their levels of qualifications are to be speaking and advising others with such authority.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9171 - 29/03/2022 14:39:21    2408115

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Is there any recent data on this? There was study done in around 2015 showing that there was a two fold increase in hamstring injuries across all field sports in the 5 year period - or something like that. Not just GAA.
My theory is that its down to gym work not being completed correctly. Too many players do push exercises and over load the quads which can create an imbalance which is also likely a big contributor to ACL injuries.
I've nothing to back this up but I would have thought the incidents of both seems to have reduced a lot at inter county level from what i have seen but would love if anyone had any stats on this...
Most regular GAA players is probably only doing static stretching and basic hypertrophy type gym work which is being shown to be of very little benefit to what is required for field sports."
tiobraid I wonder is there data as it would be interesting to see. I suspect that cruciate is off the charts. You would here of players quiting because their knees were bad. Is that the same thing ? Just go back to the 80's and 90's though I don't remember all these cruciate. With hamstrings they probably played through them and got away with it. The game was not as fast. Just shove him in corner forward.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2672 - 29/03/2022 15:00:49    2408125

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It's probably a combination of factors. Both players and the games have changed massively in terms of pace, power and explosiveness. You see ACLs going in every sport that involves turning at speed -GAA, NFL, NBA. You don't see it as much in soccer players anymore, not sure why but in general they don't turn at the same speed and force as they used to, more about playing the ball to open up space so less hard running/ turning.

We now have more information on players so we are more aware of the injuries, 20-30 years ago you might hear of an intercounty player have a bad knee but you wouldn't hear about all the club players with them.

For hamstrings it's probably down to the pace players are moving and the change in lifestyle. We are all more fond of sitting down both at home and at work than the older generation!

hurlingfan90 (Galway) - Posts: 19 - 29/03/2022 15:30:52    2408137

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Replying To hurlingfan90:  "It's probably a combination of factors. Both players and the games have changed massively in terms of pace, power and explosiveness. You see ACLs going in every sport that involves turning at speed -GAA, NFL, NBA. You don't see it as much in soccer players anymore, not sure why but in general they don't turn at the same speed and force as they used to, more about playing the ball to open up space so less hard running/ turning.

We now have more information on players so we are more aware of the injuries, 20-30 years ago you might hear of an intercounty player have a bad knee but you wouldn't hear about all the club players with them.

For hamstrings it's probably down to the pace players are moving and the change in lifestyle. We are all more fond of sitting down both at home and at work than the older generation!"
I guess where I was going with it do you thing more should be done about it ? Maybe there is behind the scenes. It is not right just to accept them. Everyone should be independently investigated. Also may be this is happening. How the player is training. Stretching, warm ups. stretching down, Life styles etc. Difference from team to team in what is going on and injuries.
In another sport 30 years ago I did stretches before and after. The other teams watching laughed at us. Once we got on top stayed there for 25 years and still there. Had a fabulous massage lady who was not a just make you feel good but actual found those tight spots and got them out. She would work until 12 p.m. to get through everyone. I suspect the most damage is after and stretching down is the more important. All teams do it now and it is good to see. I would never run them in a cool down. Walk them between stretches.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2672 - 29/03/2022 16:01:17    2408153

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It was a class goal. I'm trying to teach my 12 year old daughter that the ball travels fast on the pitch but her brain needs to be thinking quicker than the ball moving to read the play and react to it. Tyrone are timing their season nicely Saynothing."
They are starting to come together. A lot of their league matches you'd have thought they had met for the first time. Totally different team from the Armagh match. Good luck in league final but I'd say you'd have an eye on the bigger prize.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2019 - 29/03/2022 16:52:12    2408191

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This is a great article and sums up everything that is wrong

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2021/04/13/news/top-gaa-players-are-over-trained-says-fitness-coach-mike-mcgurn-2285397/

kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 276 - 29/03/2022 17:12:59    2408199

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Its probably as much due to changing times as anything else.
For example, there was more manual labour done 20-30 years ago than now I would say. Most young lads now get their weight exercises in the gym, rather than through through manual labour.
My cousin is a physio and he says that everybody who sits at a desk all day should be doing a few sets of 5 minute body weight exercises every day. I try to do 1-2 and that has been easier working from home naturally.
But also, lads push themselves more than they did in Billy Byrne's era. The game is now all about movement, even at club level. If you can't move for 60 minutes then you haven't got a hope of surviving at any level of the game.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 30/03/2022 09:22:18    2408249

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