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Replying To Sweetspot: "Made no difference to the game in the end but David Gough yesterday sent the oncoming Kildare doctor back to the sidelines as he was coming on to treat Ryan Houlihan. Kick out was taken, Houli tried play on and immediately made it worse as his hamstring went and he dropped. Seems very bizarre to me that a ref would not only restart the play but deny a team doctor access to an injured player.
At the time, the game was level and Mayo scored a point during the play" You can't have team officials running on to the pitch whenever they want. Even doctors. If it is a head injury or something that is serious that is obviously different but a hamstring injury certainly does not fall into that category.
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 28/03/2022 10:38:49
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Replying To Sweetspot: "Made no difference to the game in the end but David Gough yesterday sent the oncoming Kildare doctor back to the sidelines as he was coming on to treat Ryan Houlihan. Kick out was taken, Houli tried play on and immediately made it worse as his hamstring went and he dropped. Seems very bizarre to me that a ref would not only restart the play but deny a team doctor access to an injured player.
At the time, the game was level and Mayo scored a point during the play" It happened a good bit away and didn't see it well, looked like Houlihan and O'Hora went for a ball and O'Hora migh get booked. I think Gough thought Houlihan was faking injury, wasting time. Hard to see from where I was but he had a quick word with O'Hora then something to Houlihan and booked him. I'm biased now, was happy that O'Hora wasn't booked but maybe Gough should have checked to see if Houlihan was genuinely injured.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 28/03/2022 12:04:50
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A few questions after weekend matches..yesterday think both red cards fully deserved and o Connor lucky not to get straight red..was pa Curran over sideline leading to Waterford goal?looked like it..ball waved wide by umpire,Wexford goal disallowed..the umpire couldn't possibly have seen it where he was standing??saturday night cork got a free to put them4 points up,Harnedy was tripped by o Connor and was booked but free stood..a bit disappointed with davy and dowling not making anything of these incidents..if they happen in championship there will be uproar..also I don't remember a handpass being blown yesterday,am I right??is it that players doing it right or are refs letting it go?
CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2217 - 28/03/2022 13:18:42
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Replying To Mayonman: "You can't have team officials running on to the pitch whenever they want. Even doctors. If it is a head injury or something that is serious that is obviously different but a hamstring injury certainly does not fall into that category." There are about 3 reasons why the doctors and physio are on the pitch :
1. Player genuinely injured
2. To help with the time wasting process when the opposition has momentum.
3. To make a player feigning injury look more badly injured. The obligatory "ice pack" or "neck twists and turns" are perfect for trying to convince a referee that a player is more seriously injured.
Every county and lots of club teams are at this and we are heading in to "boy who cried wolf" territory.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 28/03/2022 13:44:41
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Replying To GreenandRed: "It happened a good bit away and didn't see it well, looked like Houlihan and O'Hora went for a ball and O'Hora migh get booked. I think Gough thought Houlihan was faking injury, wasting time. Hard to see from where I was but he had a quick word with O'Hora then something to Houlihan and booked him. I'm biased now, was happy that O'Hora wasn't booked but maybe Gough should have checked to see if Houlihan was genuinely injured." That was Woodgate and a separate incident about 5 mins before the one I'm referring to. I didn't see it myself but it seemed to me that Gough did as he was convinced it was a dive. I also heard there was contact with the woodgate/ohora incident though which made the decision not to allow the dr on to assess very strange.
Houlihan 5 minutes later was definitely injured though and if he's made it worse by not being afforded treatment, his loss will seriously hamper Kildare in the championship
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 28/03/2022 14:45:49
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Replying To Mayonman: "You can't have team officials running on to the pitch whenever they want. Even doctors. If it is a head injury or something that is serious that is obviously different but a hamstring injury certainly does not fall into that category." Surely the simple solution to this is that if a medic or physio has to come on the player goes off the pitch like the soccer and has to wait to come back on. Its has become a scourge in Gaelic Games in recent years.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 28/03/2022 17:35:23
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Replying To CTGAA10: "A few questions after weekend matches..yesterday think both red cards fully deserved and o Connor lucky not to get straight red..was pa Curran over sideline leading to Waterford goal?looked like it..ball waved wide by umpire,Wexford goal disallowed..the umpire couldn't possibly have seen it where he was standing??saturday night cork got a free to put them4 points up,Harnedy was tripped by o Connor and was booked but free stood..a bit disappointed with davy and dowling not making anything of these incidents..if they happen in championship there will be uproar..also I don't remember a handpass being blown yesterday,am I right??is it that players doing it right or are refs letting it go?" You are correct about the hand passes yesterday. Also if you were going to go by the previous week five or six times Waterford would have been blown for over carrying. I counted ten steps a Wexford player took before putting it over the bar. Last week Gleeson was soloing towards the goal and a Kilkenny defender ran right at him to stop him and because the Kilkenny player fell Gleeson was blown for charging. Gleeson is built like a brick you know what house and if you run into him that is what will happen.
So what are the players to expect the next day never mind the championship ? I know it is easy criticize refs but they are all over the place. I don't know if it is training or instructions given or what. The game has passed them out and the system is not workable anymore in the modern game. Mistake are mistakes but the biggest mistake is keeping doing the same thing and expecting a better result. I actually have sympathy for these refs but they need to step up and say they require help.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 28/03/2022 18:43:22
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Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
i wouldnt agree with putting in a second referee as there is already between umpires and linesmen 6 other officials already on the pitch. At the top level games the umpires should be qualified match officials as its ridiculous theyre not.
Totally agree with point 1.
I dont think a ref needs a replay if going to send someone off. Quite often you dont need one.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 30/03/2022 09:50:23
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Replying To KillingFields: "Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
i wouldnt agree with putting in a second referee as there is already between umpires and linesmen 6 other officials already on the pitch. At the top level games the umpires should be qualified match officials as its ridiculous theyre not.
Totally agree with point 1.
I dont think a ref needs a replay if going to send someone off. Quite often you dont need one." Do you not think KillingFields that when James Owens decided to send Richie Hogan off in an All-Ireland final that he should have been given 30 seconds to run over and look at a monitor and decide what to do? Instead of guessing on what happened.
Or John Keenan re Peter Casey last year.
It would remove appeals, committees, etc from refereeing decisions (only where a replay is available btw) and ultimately punishment meets the crime.
Re the 2nd ref, if they isn't to be one then the umpire needs to be able to call anything inside the 45.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 30/03/2022 11:54:41
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Replying To StoreysTash: " Replying To KillingFields: "Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
i wouldnt agree with putting in a second referee as there is already between umpires and linesmen 6 other officials already on the pitch. At the top level games the umpires should be qualified match officials as its ridiculous theyre not.
Totally agree with point 1.
I dont think a ref needs a replay if going to send someone off. Quite often you dont need one." Do you not think KillingFields that when James Owens decided to send Richie Hogan off in an All-Ireland final that he should have been given 30 seconds to run over and look at a monitor and decide what to do? Instead of guessing on what happened. Or John Keenan re Peter Casey last year. It would remove appeals, committees, etc from refereeing decisions (only where a replay is available btw) and ultimately punishment meets the crime. Re the 2nd ref, if they isn't to be one then the umpire needs to be able to call anything inside the 45."
You dont need a second ref when you can give linesmen and umpires more powers. it should be to be micced up to ref to inform them of any fouls that have a material affect on the play/game not simply anything within the 45
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 30/03/2022 16:52:28
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Umpire was miked up in semi final last year, reported Peter Casey for a blatant red card offence. Mystery how or why Hearings Committee decided to exonerate him. A headbutt or even attempting one is a red card.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1493 - 30/03/2022 18:15:24
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Replying To StoreysTash: " Replying To KillingFields: "Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
i wouldnt agree with putting in a second referee as there is already between umpires and linesmen 6 other officials already on the pitch. At the top level games the umpires should be qualified match officials as its ridiculous theyre not.
Totally agree with point 1.
I dont think a ref needs a replay if going to send someone off. Quite often you dont need one." Do you not think KillingFields that when James Owens decided to send Richie Hogan off in an All-Ireland final that he should have been given 30 seconds to run over and look at a monitor and decide what to do? Instead of guessing on what happened. Or John Keenan re Peter Casey last year. It would remove appeals, committees, etc from refereeing decisions (only where a replay is available btw) and ultimately punishment meets the crime. Re the 2nd ref, if they isn't to be one then the umpire needs to be able to call anything inside the 45."
I hear this nonsense about mistakes but the early cars crashed because of mistakes but when the speeds went from 10mph to 40mph they put brakes on them. The refs can not keep up with the modern game and are set up to fail. It is an actual joke to expect one referee to see what is going on a 100 meters ahead or behind him. All the technology in the world won't stop mistakes. Ask in anything in life if you could mitigate risk what would you do ?
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 30/03/2022 21:39:31
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Replying To StoreysTash: " Replying To KillingFields: "Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
i wouldnt agree with putting in a second referee as there is already between umpires and linesmen 6 other officials already on the pitch. At the top level games the umpires should be qualified match officials as its ridiculous theyre not.
Totally agree with point 1.
I dont think a ref needs a replay if going to send someone off. Quite often you dont need one." Do you not think KillingFields that when James Owens decided to send Richie Hogan off in an All-Ireland final that he should have been given 30 seconds to run over and look at a monitor and decide what to do? Instead of guessing on what happened. Or John Keenan re Peter Casey last year. It would remove appeals, committees, etc from refereeing decisions (only where a replay is available btw) and ultimately punishment meets the crime. Re the 2nd ref, if they isn't to be one then the umpire needs to be able to call anything inside the 45."
You will of course have a few examples where it could have happened but that doesnt mean they all should be automatically reviewed.
It wouldnt remove appeals or committees from refereeing decisions. A player red carded even after a ref looking at a video screen during a game will still have to attend a discipline meeting, still have right to appeal,
Umpires should be able to call any decision on field of play not be limited to within 45. they will be full officials and able to call any decision where theyre allowed
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 31/03/2022 10:08:42
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Replying To Canuck: " Replying To StoreysTash: "[quote=KillingFields: "Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
i wouldnt agree with putting in a second referee as there is already between umpires and linesmen 6 other officials already on the pitch. At the top level games the umpires should be qualified match officials as its ridiculous theyre not.
Totally agree with point 1.
I dont think a ref needs a replay if going to send someone off. Quite often you dont need one." Do you not think KillingFields that when James Owens decided to send Richie Hogan off in an All-Ireland final that he should have been given 30 seconds to run over and look at a monitor and decide what to do? Instead of guessing on what happened. Or John Keenan re Peter Casey last year. It would remove appeals, committees, etc from refereeing decisions (only where a replay is available btw) and ultimately punishment meets the crime. Re the 2nd ref, if they isn't to be one then the umpire needs to be able to call anything inside the 45."
I hear this nonsense about mistakes but the early cars crashed because of mistakes but when the speeds went from 10mph to 40mph they put brakes on them. The refs can not keep up with the modern game and are set up to fail. It is an actual joke to expect one referee to see what is going on a 100 meters ahead or behind him. All the technology in the world won't stop mistakes. Ask in anything in life if you could mitigate risk what would you do ?"]They could still see Austin Gleeson striking an opponent.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 643 - 31/03/2022 10:27:32
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Killingfields umpires can report incidents on the field,that is why the ref will often have a chat and book a couple of players..however I wonder in the past few years if umpires don't want to report incidents due to then being responsible for a player being sent off..I think if all of the other 6 officials helped then a lot of ***** wouldn't happen..let's face it ive seem linesmen insist on players taking a ball back a foot or 2 before a free can be taken but as soon as a physical incident happens they lose the power of sight..
CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2217 - 31/03/2022 10:42:50
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Replying To CTGAA10: "Killingfields umpires can report incidents on the field,that is why the ref will often have a chat and book a couple of players..however I wonder in the past few years if umpires don't want to report incidents due to then being responsible for a player being sent off..I think if all of the other 6 officials helped then a lot of ***** wouldn't happen..let's face it ive seem linesmen insist on players taking a ball back a foot or 2 before a free can be taken but as soon as a physical incident happens they lose the power of sight.." Watch how many footballers steal yards or open the angle when taking frees. This happens on ALL teams. Then a ref makes Morgan take the ball back 2 feet in last years semi final when he was over 70 yards out.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2014 - 31/03/2022 12:00:56
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Replying To countyman2022: " Replying To Canuck: "[quote=StoreysTash: "[quote=KillingFields: "Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1416 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
i wouldnt agree with putting in a second referee as there is already between umpires and linesmen 6 other officials already on the pitch. At the top level games the umpires should be qualified match officials as its ridiculous theyre not.
Totally agree with point 1.
I dont think a ref needs a replay if going to send someone off. Quite often you dont need one." Do you not think KillingFields that when James Owens decided to send Richie Hogan off in an All-Ireland final that he should have been given 30 seconds to run over and look at a monitor and decide what to do? Instead of guessing on what happened. Or John Keenan re Peter Casey last year. It would remove appeals, committees, etc from refereeing decisions (only where a replay is available btw) and ultimately punishment meets the crime. Re the 2nd ref, if they isn't to be one then the umpire needs to be able to call anything inside the 45."
I hear this nonsense about mistakes but the early cars crashed because of mistakes but when the speeds went from 10mph to 40mph they put brakes on them. The refs can not keep up with the modern game and are set up to fail. It is an actual joke to expect one referee to see what is going on a 100 meters ahead or behind him. All the technology in the world won't stop mistakes. Ask in anything in life if you could mitigate risk what would you do ?"]They could still see Austin Gleeson striking an opponent."]Please go get help before its too late.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 31/03/2022 15:48:38
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Replying To CTGAA10: "A few questions after weekend matches..yesterday think both red cards fully deserved and o Connor lucky not to get straight red..was pa Curran over sideline leading to Waterford goal?looked like it..ball waved wide by umpire,Wexford goal disallowed..the umpire couldn't possibly have seen it where he was standing??saturday night cork got a free to put them4 points up,Harnedy was tripped by o Connor and was booked but free stood..a bit disappointed with davy and dowling not making anything of these incidents..if they happen in championship there will be uproar..also I don't remember a handpass being blown yesterday,am I right??is it that players doing it right or are refs letting it go?" Am not in any way condoning O'Connor for throwing his hurl last Sunday, but have already pointed out on another thread that in the rulebook, the punishment for throwing a hurl in a manner likely to be dangerous to an opponent is a yellow card.
Referee had no power to issue a straight red, and if he did, it'd be an open and shut case when it came to an appeal.
Again, am not condoning O'Connor, and he deserved what he got. Just pointing out that anything over and above what he got would have been wrong according to the rules.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2249 - 31/03/2022 16:22:52
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How can lads here think umpire was wrong in relation to Wexford disallowed goal? Umpire was one yard away. Ridiculous
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1493 - 31/03/2022 16:50:56
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Replying To Claretandblue: "How can lads here think umpire was wrong in relation to Wexford disallowed goal? Umpire was one yard away. Ridiculous" Clareandblue I honestly don't know if the ball crossed the line. He did not hesitate if that is an indication. The t.v.camera is not totally reliable for this though it did look like from it that he saved. The same as Patrick Curran going over the side line not even a bad camera view. I wish people would be a bit fairer. Just because it suits to think he went over the side line. How about acknowledging his skill while being challenged. I will no matter what the colour shirts.
I have said that I would like to see camera reviews in some instances. However I also agree big costs involved to do it right. Not just t.v. cameras. You can learn from others. The NHL used to use t.v. footage but found out it is not good enough. Fixed cameras including a net cam are used. The won't share all the views with t.v. Keeps the mouthy commentators in their place. Once they got that then they found mistakes were still happening. Slowing down frames made it look like the hitter premeditated the head shot as where in real time the movement of the receiver was after the momentum. Now all suspensions are re view at normal speed. The angle of that camera on Sunday plus the slowing down of a frame might have been inaccurate as often the slowed down frame does not go far enough. All the t.v.people do is keep replaying the same view. If the umpire was doing his job he should be more accurate. If not sure he needs more that a t.v. camera. Being involved with this technology the most accurate way is imaging. the camera would have an image of the target and anything that would enter that image using leading edge or trailing edge would get recorded. Maybe hawk eye uses it. Trailing in this instance. Sorry for boring you to death. I would like to see technology but the price tag is high and our playing area impossible to cover everything but make a start. The ball is inspite of people making a laugh of it.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 31/03/2022 21:25:12
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