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Replying To reffingmad: "Yes but where do you get referees for all these club games if all these referees are doing umpire duties." Start paying them properly and I'll be you'd find no shortage of people looking to get trained up.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1918 - 22/03/2022 13:16:42
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Try to answer the question Bon. Are inter county referees not club referees too? We're struggling to get referees nationally and you propose to more than double the number needed? How will that work? Referees don't get paid in the first instance so how can you increase the amount?
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1506 - 22/03/2022 15:06:07
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Replying To Claretandblue: "Try to answer the question Bon. Are inter county referees not club referees too? We're struggling to get referees nationally and you propose to more than double the number needed? How will that work? Referees don't get paid in the first instance so how can you increase the amount?" Then start paying them, might entice more people for a start. Or introduce more Hawkeye to try and help the existing situation. No excuses when the technology is available.
The alternative is to do nothing and just accept that Mickey mouse decisions will still happen and tough when they do.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1918 - 23/03/2022 12:47:46
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Hawkeye at every ground in the country? Cracking idea. €300-400K multiplied by 30? €12m. Good use of money. Maybe accept the odd mistake.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1506 - 23/03/2022 14:26:08
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Replying To Claretandblue: "Hawkeye at every ground in the country? Cracking idea. €300-400K multiplied by 30? €12m. Good use of money. Maybe accept the odd mistake." Nailed it. It is still an amateur organisation where people give their time to do these roles, sometimes imperfectly and often thanklessly. Perfectly acceptable to ask for good standards, but if we vilify everyone who makes a mistake while doing something for free in their spare time, we will be left with nobody willing to give up their time to do these jobs. We are making professional demands of amateur volunteers. Mistakes come with the territory. Suck it up.
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 475 - 23/03/2022 15:09:21
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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "Nailed it. It is still an amateur organisation where people give their time to do these roles, sometimes imperfectly and often thanklessly. Perfectly acceptable to ask for good standards, but if we vilify everyone who makes a mistake while doing something for free in their spare time, we will be left with nobody willing to give up their time to do these jobs. We are making professional demands of amateur volunteers. Mistakes come with the territory. Suck it up." That isn't much consolation to players who train like professionals and get effected by these mistakes. The whole line of fellas giving up their spare time and are doing their best isn't good enough any more in this day and age. There is means there that could help them but people seem to want to stay in the back ages. Look at the money the GAA make from games and concerts and so forth.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1918 - 23/03/2022 15:21:42
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Replying To Bon: "Start paying them properly and I'll be you'd find no shortage of people looking to get trained up." What is proper pay in your eyes? You wont get the best people as officials if you pay them well but still dont have proper training on rules etc all the time.
If you want better offficials help them in terms of what they are taught about refereeing, rules discussions, fitness help etc
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3514 - 23/03/2022 15:31:49
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Some thing needs to be done to get better officiating of the game played at the speed of today and the commitment expected of inter county players. I am not knocking referees who don't have the tools to do this. Often asked to employ rules that are reactionary as opposed to proactionary. Then the rules are eased away when they fail.
No one should be red carded without the play being reviewed. If a player is hit to the head blow the whistle to stop play for safety. Then review before reaching straight away for the red card. Some will be red cards. Some not so conclusive or not at all. Was there obvious intent ? Was it during contending for the ball or after the play was gone ? Did the hitter take a run at the recipient as that may help with intent? Did the hit player move after the hit was initiated that made him vulnerable ? Surly a player can not be punished for incidentals that happen after he made the challenge. It would be like sending off a player hitting the ball and the opposition dives in and gets hit on the head. Review may not always be conclusive or marginal but if not the most should be is yellow.
Of course mistakes will be made but you must do the most to mitigate them and living in the past with support systems that are way out dated for todays game is not going to achieve that. If the funds are not there (which they are) for review technology then it is time to put two refs out there or have the linesmen do something other than waving the flag for a line ball. At least to increase the chances of getting it correct.
I pity refs for what is expected of them in the fastest field sport played. I pity players who commit so much getting red carded in the wrong. I pity players who are getting hit in the acceptable getting to know you stuff. I pity amateur players who suffer injuries from unscrupulous managers/trainers running them into the ground training. Example is the epidemic of cruciate injuries.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2671 - 23/03/2022 16:37:51
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Replying To Canuck: "Some thing needs to be done to get better officiating of the game played at the speed of today and the commitment expected of inter county players. I am not knocking referees who don't have the tools to do this. Often asked to employ rules that are reactionary as opposed to proactionary. Then the rules are eased away when they fail.
No one should be red carded without the play being reviewed. If a player is hit to the head blow the whistle to stop play for safety. Then review before reaching straight away for the red card. Some will be red cards. Some not so conclusive or not at all. Was there obvious intent ? Was it during contending for the ball or after the play was gone ? Did the hitter take a run at the recipient as that may help with intent? Did the hit player move after the hit was initiated that made him vulnerable ? Surly a player can not be punished for incidentals that happen after he made the challenge. It would be like sending off a player hitting the ball and the opposition dives in and gets hit on the head. Review may not always be conclusive or marginal but if not the most should be is yellow.
Of course mistakes will be made but you must do the most to mitigate them and living in the past with support systems that are way out dated for todays game is not going to achieve that. If the funds are not there (which they are) for review technology then it is time to put two refs out there or have the linesmen do something other than waving the flag for a line ball. At least to increase the chances of getting it correct.
I pity refs for what is expected of them in the fastest field sport played. I pity players who commit so much getting red carded in the wrong. I pity players who are getting hit in the acceptable getting to know you stuff. I pity amateur players who suffer injuries from unscrupulous managers/trainers running them into the ground training. Example is the epidemic of cruciate injuries." I totally disagree. There is many incidents where its totally clear and obvious a red card should be awarded. Saying all red cards should have to be video reviewed before being awarded is pointless.
You dont need to add a second ref when you have 2 linesmen and 4 umpires already in place. Give those officials better training and more powers where necessary rather than add yet another person to the mix.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3514 - 23/03/2022 17:12:29
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Replying To KillingFields: "I totally disagree. There is many incidents where its totally clear and obvious a red card should be awarded. Saying all red cards should have to be video reviewed before being awarded is pointless.
You dont need to add a second ref when you have 2 linesmen and 4 umpires already in place. Give those officials better training and more powers where necessary rather than add yet another person to the mix." I agree with you if you give that training and powers but that is not the case. Like throwing the ball. The ones the ref is behind are missed. Why can't the lines man flag these. A total lack of consistency on these will drive people mad. There are red cards that are obvious but that should not make it okay for a wrong call on others. So review all. I don't care if it is only 1%. That player does not deserve that if it can be avoided by having a review with the relevant officials on the field first and down the road technology. It drives me mad to see the ref reaching straight for a red card with out taking a little time to consult. Sometimes they do but plenty of times not. He is not infallible and should protect himself also.
I think you believe like I do these refs are not trained adequately for the game to day. I don't believe it is their fault. Mistakes are on thing but rules that can't be implemented are inexcusable. Clare were the recipient of such a rule last year. It then got ignored or modified. Does that not show the refs are been instructed by incompetence ?
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2671 - 23/03/2022 18:02:32
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When was last time a player was red carded erroneously? List them in the past five years.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1506 - 23/03/2022 19:26:31
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Replying To Bon: "That isn't much consolation to players who train like professionals and get effected by these mistakes. The whole line of fellas giving up their spare time and are doing their best isn't good enough any more in this day and age. There is means there that could help them but people seem to want to stay in the back ages. Look at the money the GAA make from games and concerts and so forth." Agree with you as far as players are concerned. Players put in hundreds of hours for that 70 minutes on the playing field. Not to much to ask to get officials to make the calls right especially whether a ball went between the posts or not. So decisions aren't black and white but points are.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2018 - 23/03/2022 21:41:56
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Every sport with referees etc has incorrect calls. It's fact.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1506 - 24/03/2022 15:14:57
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Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 25/03/2022 11:24:04
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Here are 5 points for me.
1. People need to accept human error. From referees, from players, and so on. AND GET OVER IT.
2. (Where available) Show the referee a replay if he is going to send a player off. The whole country saw Richie Hogan's hit on Cathal Barrett yet the 1 man who could do with the replay, James Owens, wasn't allowed see one. Imagine the furore which would have been avoided if John Keenan could have seen a replay of Peter Casey red card last year? It is immature not to help the referee out when we can
3. Have 2 referees. The game (hurling anyway) is now too fast for 1 man. If a referee is 65 yards away pegging it down the field, he can't possibly be expected to call a decision 100% right all of the time
OR (4)
4. Make at least 1 umpire a referee who can call decisions if better placed. Dress them out in referee garb. Make them more part of the officiating team.
5. Linesmen should be calling decisions too, they are often better placed than the referee. And judge the entire officiating team, not just the referee.
But above all, if you aren't happy with the referee, get your whistle and get out there and do it if it is so easy." Careful now, some types don't like progressive thinking like that .
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1918 - 25/03/2022 13:22:53
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Replying To Claretandblue: "When was last time a player was red carded erroneously? List them in the past five years." I would say the two McGraths in the Munster club semi final last Nov/Dec
seventyniner (Galway) - Posts: 41 - 27/03/2022 20:37:07
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John McGrath was certainly a red card. That's one sending off? Hardly a crisis
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1506 - 27/03/2022 21:35:33
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Made no difference to the game in the end but David Gough yesterday sent the oncoming Kildare doctor back to the sidelines as he was coming on to treat Ryan Houlihan. Kick out was taken, Houli tried play on and immediately made it worse as his hamstring went and he dropped. Seems very bizarre to me that a ref would not only restart the play but deny a team doctor access to an injured player.
At the time, the game was level and Mayo scored a point during the play
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 28/03/2022 08:42:08
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Replying To Claretandblue: "John McGrath was certainly a red card. That's one sending off? Hardly a crisis" I believe John McGrath's red card has since been overturned.
midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 546 - 28/03/2022 09:31:14
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Replying To Sweetspot: "Made no difference to the game in the end but David Gough yesterday sent the oncoming Kildare doctor back to the sidelines as he was coming on to treat Ryan Houlihan. Kick out was taken, Houli tried play on and immediately made it worse as his hamstring went and he dropped. Seems very bizarre to me that a ref would not only restart the play but deny a team doctor access to an injured player.
At the time, the game was level and Mayo scored a point during the play" To be honest, this is going to start happening more as players continue to feign injury.
I am sick and tired of the physios and doctors coming on to the pitch. It is a pure time wasting tactic. The sooner it is clamped down on the better.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 28/03/2022 09:40:12
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