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A Look Back On 2017 All Ireland SFC Final

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Some of our players love winning more than they hate losing. Dublin absolutely detest losing and will do what it takes to win. The same for Kerry, Tyrone and Donegal. I think some of our players and some of our supporters, myself included, get anxious on the day of the final. Not all have the self belief that we'll do what it takes to win. As far back as October 1997 some smart people should have sat down and worked out why we were good enough to get to finals but fail on the big day.

Just my own opinion but I think successive managers have failed Cillian O'Connor and consequently affected the other forwards. Cillian is a quality footballer, twice Young Player of the Year, that's been let regress to the role of freetaker. He's capable of a lot more from play but it seems like too many of our forwards, including and in many cases especially Cillian, get to a scoring position, see nothing on or don't have the confidence to shoot, and manufacture a free for Cillian to take. How will that breed confidence in forwards to kick points from play? We're too reliant on Cillian's frees since 2011, just like we were relying on Ciaran Mac before that. But ultimately for me it's a mental thing, self belief. If we had a squad of Lee Keegans, Keith Higgins', Chris Barrets, Andy Morans, we'd gave at keast won one Sam since '51. I'd include Cillian in that list but he always seem to be left with a free at the end of the game when we should have scored enough by then. We don't though, but we should look at these players mindset and learn and have a squad of self believers that hate losing. Rather than shot shy footballers who fall over to give one man most of the pressure because they're not coached well enough to kick their own points."
It's interesting that you put it down to a lack of mental strength. Surely the problem for Mayo is a lack of forward firepower. Strong defense but not so strong in the front line. Mayo have not wanted for anything over the years and I'm sure that they have very good sports psychologists onboard. I think there have been poor decisions involved also of course which contributed but Mayo were a hugely athletic and well drilled out fit but a bit short of shooters when the game was in the melting pot.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1375 - 15/06/2020 21:42:14    2280976

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Ye have had a forward win FOTY and 2 win YFOTY.

The ability was there. The bottle wasn't."
I was at the 04 final. I remember being surprised by how cheerful and resigned the Mayo fans around me were. Nobody raged or got proper mad. Didn't seem right to me. No good being a good loser. Been among Kerry fans when Kerry have lost, and they are the exact opposite. They despise losing. The gas thing is other countys' fans might complain about the ref or about their own players underperforming, but Kerry fans tend to rise above that and to question their own selector's choices. The Kerry attitude - an absolute and unreasonable intolerance of losing - is exactly what you want. It creates a culture that puts pressure on a team. The Mayo fans I saw were a wee bit too ready to make allowances. It was like being among Fermanagh fans in the 80s. Only my impression, but I never got the sense that the Mayo fans deep down believed they could do it.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 709 - 15/06/2020 23:28:27    2280982

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Ye have had a forward win FOTY and 2 win YFOTY.

The ability was there. The bottle wasn't."
Nah, don't agree with that. Realistically, I'd say only Andy and COC would have been top rank, maybe DOC on a good day, pre-injury. The likes of Doherty and Aido are workhorses (highly valuable in winning ball etc, but unlikely to kick several points in the big games), while we were always looking to the likes of Lee Keegan, Boyle and Paddy Durcan to kick scores from back the field.

The Dubs had a full six who could do damage on a given day, plus three or four on the bench. Costello in the 2016 replay is a great example of this (has he gotten a look-in since?) and also Connolly in the second half of 2017.

Probably should have won one of those games but c'est la vie.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1794 - 16/06/2020 07:49:51    2280991

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Mayo have thrown away more than one final against Dublin. Its amazing they've waited so long and in fairness they've just never had the rub of the green.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13534 - 16/06/2020 10:09:01    2281005

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Replying To waynoI:  "Mayo have thrown away more than one final against Dublin. Its amazing they've waited so long and in fairness they've just never had the rub of the green."
Well of the 3 finals they lost to Dublin:

2013 - Andy Moran's goal was very avoidable from a Dublin point of view. 2 men going for the same high ball, keeper too far off his line. A lifeline that got them back into that game.

2016 drawn game - Dean Rock probably had his worst day ever on frees in a Dublin jersey. Mayo don't capitalize.

2017 - John Small gets himself sent off. Vaughan immediately evens the numbers up.


I know plenty has gone against them and they've suffered more bad luck than good, but the excuses have to stop sometime.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3824 - 16/06/2020 11:51:10    2281016

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Tough watch I must say. Cillian was very wasteful. Andy ran out of steam but I would have taken Doherty off as soon as he scuffed that goal chance.

Villains free that came off the post...should have been a man much closer to collect or challenge for that ball.

Fact is in all those finals Dublin's bench scored 0-6 and outs scored 0-1...there is your difference in drawn and 0-1 defeats in finals...Dublin had miles more quality on the bench..

Despite all the heartbreak (and I get mad even thinking about it) it was a great rollercoaster from 2011-2017....even last year we won the NFL and contested a semi final and was regarded as a failure year....

We are in transition now but we will be back. Up Mayo !

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10157 - 16/06/2020 18:35:25    2281060

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Tough watch I must say. Cillian was very wasteful. Andy ran out of steam but I would have taken Doherty off as soon as he scuffed that goal chance.

Villains free that came off the post...should have been a man much closer to collect or challenge for that ball.

Fact is in all those finals Dublin's bench scored 0-6 and outs scored 0-1...there is your difference in drawn and 0-1 defeats in finals...Dublin had miles more quality on the bench..

Despite all the heartbreak (and I get mad even thinking about it) it was a great rollercoaster from 2011-2017....even last year we won the NFL and contested a semi final and was regarded as a failure year....

We are in transition now but we will be back. Up Mayo !"
I thought Andy Moran pulled his hamstring? Did he not set up the goal for Keegan while he was injured?

Dec82 (Clare) - Posts: 217 - 16/06/2020 19:31:15    2281066

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Replying To Dec82:  "I thought Andy Moran pulled his hamstring? Did he not set up the goal for Keegan while he was injured?"
I think the injury came after the goal. I was in the hill and he was right in front of us and you could see him struggling for a bit, then he kicked a bad wide and it seemed to go on him properly then.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13000 - 16/06/2020 19:53:41    2281070

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Tough watch I must say. Cillian was very wasteful. Andy ran out of steam but I would have taken Doherty off as soon as he scuffed that goal chance.

Villains free that came off the post...should have been a man much closer to collect or challenge for that ball.

Fact is in all those finals Dublin's bench scored 0-6 and outs scored 0-1...there is your difference in drawn and 0-1 defeats in finals...Dublin had miles more quality on the bench..

Despite all the heartbreak (and I get mad even thinking about it) it was a great rollercoaster from 2011-2017....even last year we won the NFL and contested a semi final and was regarded as a failure year....

We are in transition now but we will be back. Up Mayo !"
Cillian scored 3 points from play and I honestly don't think I have ever seen an inside forward work as hard as he did off the ball that day. Dublin had a better bench but Mayo did everything possible that day, no team with that conversion rate hass ever lost a final. People can correct me if they want but in modern All Ireland finals the stats from both teams had never been achieved that day. Andy was struggling, I was in the Cusack and you could see he wasn't right. The fact is Vaughan had a brainfart that day and I honestly think we would have seen it out with the extra man.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6670 - 17/06/2020 09:55:53    2281096

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Replying To Young_gael:  "A great game. Mayo were wasteful, but Dublin were uncharacteristically wasteful too in the first half.
Mayo should have won at least one AI in the 10s, but alas they were facing Gavin's Dubs twice, and we're taken down by a more physical Donegal. Mayo also could have won an AI or two in the 00's, but alas faced the Kerry of the gooch, Donaghy, and the O'Sé's, etc. They could've won in 96 only were taken down by a more physical Meath team etc. There is an unhealthy pattern regarding Mayo and finals, and simply not having the full hand required to win the final. If they had even one more top quality forward they may well have won in 2016/2017. It might seem harsh of me to say but I look at the Mayo of the 10s and I think that certain players were massively over-rated media darlings who could do no wrong, who ultimately were found out toward the end of the decade. It's a shame. I always said that the day Mayo eventually do win an all-Ireland is the day the media will suddenly hate them. Every sport has it's celebrity losers and god does love a trier."
Physical Donegal.???. Your good crack Gael

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 640 - 17/06/2020 19:43:57    2281156

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