National Forum

Should The Rebel Flag Be Banned At Cork Matches?

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Replying To cavanman47:  "It was also adorned by many US troops from the southern states when they fought in the 2 world wars against fascist regimes.

I guess they wore it as a means by which to identify with their homeland, as opposed to a symbol of the supreme race ideals which they were fighting against."
We're getting into the territory of there being no point in flags at all in this case. If I can just fly any flag I want, for any reason I want, then there's really no "meaning" behind the flag at all then.
The next time I'm at a game, I'll fly my blue and yellow flag to show my allegiance to Westmeath.

There are a million and one flags that people can choose, why they insist on choosing one with links to white supremacy baffles me.

iarmhi_an_mhaith (Westmeath) - Posts: 230 - 18/06/2020 19:59:03    2281228

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Replying To cavanman47:  "It was also adorned by many US troops from the southern states when they fought in the 2 world wars against fascist regimes.

I guess they wore it as a means by which to identify with their homeland, as opposed to a symbol of the supreme race ideals which they were fighting against."
Please tell me all of that's a wind up?

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 18/06/2020 20:45:44    2281230

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Replying To cavanman47:  "It was also adorned by many US troops from the southern states when they fought in the 2 world wars against fascist regimes.

I guess they wore it as a means by which to identify with their homeland, as opposed to a symbol of the supreme race ideals which they were fighting against."
Did Bubba in Forrest Gump not wear it too...?

This whole thing is a joke.

If you google co co pops they're apparently racist now too. It extends to the breakfast table now as well.. Should we all be racist Father and should Pat Mustard be delivering the milk.

I never lost too much sleep over orelly man in Fawlty Towers or does anyone remember Paddy Whack in the Dandy was it? That actually was very much racist. Should we request a formal apology??

There's actually more offence taken on here at the historic confederate flag in Thurles than the union flag flying in your own country. Get a grip.

The real discrimination in the GAA is against the smaller counties. Not on the terraces down in Cork.

If ye don't want to be offended these days, don't bother stepping outside of the door. Thought Police

Passer_By (Carlow) - Posts: 468 - 18/06/2020 21:39:55    2281232

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US troops in the Vietnam war also displayed it. This was at a time of racial tension in the USA. The Black Americans flew a different type of flag, the Marcus Garvey flag. This had Red, Black and Green bars. Black Americans have a variation of the Confederate flag too believe it or not. It has the Southern red, but a black saltire with green stars representing the states of Dixie. It is not commonly used. Maybe this flag should be flown at P.U.C.
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us_afrcs.html

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1770 - 18/06/2020 22:08:13    2281236

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Replying To Passer_By:  "Did Bubba in Forrest Gump not wear it too...?

This whole thing is a joke.

If you google co co pops they're apparently racist now too. It extends to the breakfast table now as well.. Should we all be racist Father and should Pat Mustard be delivering the milk.

I never lost too much sleep over orelly man in Fawlty Towers or does anyone remember Paddy Whack in the Dandy was it? That actually was very much racist. Should we request a formal apology??

There's actually more offence taken on here at the historic confederate flag in Thurles than the union flag flying in your own country. Get a grip.

The real discrimination in the GAA is against the smaller counties. Not on the terraces down in Cork.

If ye don't want to be offended these days, don't bother stepping outside of the door. Thought Police"
Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's are to rebrand now too. Everything must go!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uncle-bens-mrs-burtterworths-cream-of-wheat-package-review-aunt-jemima-racism/

A pyrrhic victory if you ask me, given that a lot of these multinational companies use sweatshops, fail to pay many of their staff a living wage or resist unionisation, much of which would benefit people of colour.

Now where is my placard, I must get Lucky Charms, Irish Spring, the black and tan and Irish car bomb drinks etc. withdrawn from circulation...

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1796 - 19/06/2020 08:40:31    2281242

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Replying To iarmhi_an_mhaith:  "We're getting into the territory of there being no point in flags at all in this case. If I can just fly any flag I want, for any reason I want, then there's really no "meaning" behind the flag at all then.
The next time I'm at a game, I'll fly my blue and yellow flag to show my allegiance to Westmeath.

There are a million and one flags that people can choose, why they insist on choosing one with links to white supremacy baffles me."
The reason Cork fans choose that particular flag is obvious tho? Well it seems obvious to me - it is a reference to being a southern county, it's predominantly red, and it's a reference to their status as the Rebel County.


Interesting you mention Westmeath - if someone were to stand near you at a Westmeath game and wave a Qatar flag (maroon and white), would you ask them to take it down given that nation's links to what is essentially modern day slavery?

And what about this request from Boyle GAA to their fans:

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Were they being insensitive choosing that image?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3834 - 19/06/2020 08:58:54    2281245

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's are to rebrand now too. Everything must go!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uncle-bens-mrs-burtterworths-cream-of-wheat-package-review-aunt-jemima-racism/

A pyrrhic victory if you ask me, given that a lot of these multinational companies use sweatshops, fail to pay many of their staff a living wage or resist unionisation, much of which would benefit people of colour.

Now where is my placard, I must get Lucky Charms, Irish Spring, the black and tan and Irish car bomb drinks etc. withdrawn from circulation..."
"A pyrrhic victory if you ask me, given that a lot of these multinational companies use sweatshops, fail to pay many of their staff a living wage or resist unionisation, much of which would benefit people of colour."


BINGO!

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3834 - 19/06/2020 10:13:15    2281252

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Replying To cavanman47:  "The reason Cork fans choose that particular flag is obvious tho? Well it seems obvious to me - it is a reference to being a southern county, it's predominantly red, and it's a reference to their status as the Rebel County.


Interesting you mention Westmeath - if someone were to stand near you at a Westmeath game and wave a Qatar flag (maroon and white), would you ask them to take it down given that nation's links to what is essentially modern day slavery?

And what about this request from Boyle GAA to their fans:

link

Were they being insensitive choosing that image?"
I would say nearly everybody will accept that when originally used the Cork fans intentions were never to lend any legitimacy to white supremacists but by now that should no longer be the case as there is no excuse for not knowing what the flag represents.
As for other Nations Flags, my view would be that out of courtesy and respect to the Nations Flags the should never be used at GAA games other that for official use. The Qatar flag represents the Nation of Qatar and while there may be some questionable labour practices in the country the Flag does not represent a particular cause.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 795 - 19/06/2020 10:31:18    2281255

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Replying To cavanman47:  ""A pyrrhic victory if you ask me, given that a lot of these multinational companies use sweatshops, fail to pay many of their staff a living wage or resist unionisation, much of which would benefit people of colour."


BINGO!"
Companies will always change their brand and practices due to public pressure such as what's going on now. They are no doubt expecting their pay and conditions to also come under scrutiny and will prepare for it.
You can see that with the climate change demos where conditions linked to conditions throwaway fashion have been targeted.
The british govenment's u turn for Marcus Rashford wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the BLM protest.

Overall, lots of people may not be interested in racism but the GAA has growing numbers that are affected by it on a daily basis that we need to consider when debating the second most racist flag in the world.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 19/06/2020 11:00:47    2281257

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's are to rebrand now too. Everything must go!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uncle-bens-mrs-burtterworths-cream-of-wheat-package-review-aunt-jemima-racism/

A pyrrhic victory if you ask me, given that a lot of these multinational companies use sweatshops, fail to pay many of their staff a living wage or resist unionisation, much of which would benefit people of colour.

Now where is my placard, I must get Lucky Charms, Irish Spring, the black and tan and Irish car bomb drinks etc. withdrawn from circulation..."
Might as well take those stupid pictures off Uncle Ben's and whoever else label sure it's not like that's why anyone buys em.

And you are right about the sweatshops and double standards and I bet there's many a BLM activist out there saying they couldn't give a F about Little Britain being banned and really just want cops to shop harassing and shooting their kids.

I know you are being sarcastic but we should ban the Irish Car Bomb and I have had this out with Yanks back when I worked pubs as it's an awful distasteful name and not a subject to be treated lightly

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 903 - 19/06/2020 11:13:23    2281258

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Replying To zinny:  "
Replying To cavanman47:  "The reason Cork fans choose that particular flag is obvious tho? Well it seems obvious to me - it is a reference to being a southern county, it's predominantly red, and it's a reference to their status as the Rebel County.


Interesting you mention Westmeath - if someone were to stand near you at a Westmeath game and wave a Qatar flag (maroon and white), would you ask them to take it down given that nation's links to what is essentially modern day slavery?

And what about this request from Boyle GAA to their fans:

link

Were they being insensitive choosing that image?"
I would say nearly everybody will accept that when originally used the Cork fans intentions were never to lend any legitimacy to white supremacists but by now that should no longer be the case as there is no excuse for not knowing what the flag represents.
As for other Nations Flags, my view would be that out of courtesy and respect to the Nations Flags the should never be used at GAA games other that for official use. The Qatar flag represents the Nation of Qatar and while there may be some questionable labour practices in the country the Flag does not represent a particular cause."
"while there may be some questionable labour practices in the country"

May be? Is this down to your ignorance, or are you some sort of apologist for the Qatari regime?

There is no maybe about it.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 979 - 19/06/2020 11:16:01    2281259

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Replying To cavanman47:  "The reason Cork fans choose that particular flag is obvious tho? Well it seems obvious to me - it is a reference to being a southern county, it's predominantly red, and it's a reference to their status as the Rebel County.


Interesting you mention Westmeath - if someone were to stand near you at a Westmeath game and wave a Qatar flag (maroon and white), would you ask them to take it down given that nation's links to what is essentially modern day slavery?

And what about this request from Boyle GAA to their fans:

link

Were they being insensitive choosing that image?"
Just to be clear, I don't think any flags should be banned. I think we need to educate people on the message they are portraying by using these flags, and if they want to go ahead and use them anyway and understand the consequences, then fair enough.
If someone stood near to me with a Qatar flag, I would politely remind them about the points you have mentioned, and you are absolutely correct in saying that it's modern day slavery. Or maybe I wouldn't, it's really none of my business if people want to fly any flag, and it wouldn't bother me, but they should know that it will bother some people and they should understand why.

Regarding that Boyle GAA post, again I think that is out of ignorance on the subject rather than any malicious intent on their part. I doubt the PRO of the club would have used that image in the post if they understood what it stands for.

People just need to be educated on the subjects.

iarmhi_an_mhaith (Westmeath) - Posts: 230 - 19/06/2020 11:21:35    2281261

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "
Replying To zinny:  "[quote=cavanman47:  "The reason Cork fans choose that particular flag is obvious tho? Well it seems obvious to me - it is a reference to being a southern county, it's predominantly red, and it's a reference to their status as the Rebel County.


Interesting you mention Westmeath - if someone were to stand near you at a Westmeath game and wave a Qatar flag (maroon and white), would you ask them to take it down given that nation's links to what is essentially modern day slavery?

And what about this request from Boyle GAA to their fans:

link

Were they being insensitive choosing that image?"
I would say nearly everybody will accept that when originally used the Cork fans intentions were never to lend any legitimacy to white supremacists but by now that should no longer be the case as there is no excuse for not knowing what the flag represents.
As for other Nations Flags, my view would be that out of courtesy and respect to the Nations Flags the should never be used at GAA games other that for official use. The Qatar flag represents the Nation of Qatar and while there may be some questionable labour practices in the country the Flag does not represent a particular cause."
"while there may be some questionable labour practices in the country"

May be? Is this down to your ignorance, or are you some sort of apologist for the Qatari regime?

There is no maybe about it."]I know there has always been a history of sport and dodgy money but it was sad to see how quickly all the big sports lined up to take the oil money. I can't think of a single one made a stand against it

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 903 - 19/06/2020 14:21:17    2281276

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i have a mauritania flag i bring an odd time to Meath games, im not sure the protocol on this has Maurtatania any dodgy history? i have seen an ethiopian flag at meath games too. brazil and Jamaica are probably the other very common national flags at meath matches

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 521 - 19/06/2020 14:23:38    2281278

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tyrone fans were asked to take down the palestine flags in navan in 2018, gardai came onto the terrace and all, i know a lot of meath fans told them to take the flag they had off the pitch after the game too.

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 521 - 19/06/2020 14:28:13    2281279

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Replying To dickie10:  "i have a mauritania flag i bring an odd time to Meath games, im not sure the protocol on this has Maurtatania any dodgy history? i have seen an ethiopian flag at meath games too. brazil and Jamaica are probably the other very common national flags at meath matches"
I'm afraid so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania

Brazil only abolished slavery in 1888 and there are legacy issues there which Bolsonaro has tried to exploit.

People don't seem as pushed about suppressing these other flags for some reason, whether it be due to ignorance or otherwise.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1796 - 19/06/2020 14:38:40    2281281

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Replying To dickie10:  "i have a mauritania flag i bring an odd time to Meath games, im not sure the protocol on this has Maurtatania any dodgy history? i have seen an ethiopian flag at meath games too. brazil and Jamaica are probably the other very common national flags at meath matches"
Mauritania is definitely a no at Meath matches as it's clearly more of a Mayo flag

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 903 - 19/06/2020 14:51:48    2281282

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Replying To Gleebo:  "I'm afraid so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania

Brazil only abolished slavery in 1888 and there are legacy issues there which Bolsonaro has tried to exploit.

People don't seem as pushed about suppressing these other flags for some reason, whether it be due to ignorance or otherwise."
In fairness, they're the current flags of UN recognised states. The confederate flag is not and there's a reason why. ;)

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 753 - 19/06/2020 15:33:36    2281285

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Replying To dickie10:  "tyrone fans were asked to take down the palestine flags in navan in 2018, gardai came onto the terrace and all, i know a lot of meath fans told them to take the flag they had off the pitch after the game too."
"gardai came onto the terrace and all,"

Why? Is it against the law to wave a Palestinian flag?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 979 - 19/06/2020 16:33:57    2281290

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The Confederate Flag was always flown to represent Cork being the rebel county..almost a Texas of Ireland due to its huge size in relation to other counties . It's out if control at the moment. I'd a history teacher who taught us that General Lee was the greatest commander and all round decent guy of the Civil war. Iv read alot about him and my opinion is the same. All round decent man loyal to his state.
The Palestinian flags being flown is annoying,should be banned. The amount of terrorists that came out of there is shocking. Its gas how it's the Nordies and rough Dubs that Fly it here...like they are brothers in arms or something crazy ...

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1243 - 19/06/2020 16:37:43    2281291

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