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Could A Professional Hurling/Football League Survive In Ireland?

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Betamax was a better product than VHS but VHS outsold it."
I guess VHS was marketed better.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 842 - 20/05/2020 16:42:42    2278824

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Betamax was a better product than VHS but VHS outsold it."
Better? In what way?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 883 - 20/05/2020 16:57:52    2278828

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Replying To Breezy:  "Ya but cycling is raced all over the place and has donefrom the start it was just that TdF was the most popular of the early races and it was never just a sport for French expats like Gaelic games is around the world"
Very true and maybe not the best example.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 842 - 20/05/2020 17:43:36    2278831

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Better? In what way?"
Technically.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 267 - 20/05/2020 18:37:11    2278837

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Replying To Trump2020:  "I guess VHS was marketed better."
Yes

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 267 - 21/05/2020 09:29:32    2278896

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Yes"
I just went on Ebay just to see if Beta and/or VHS tapes and players were still for sale and sure enough there's plenty of each. Someone selling "Barberella" on Beta. A young lads dream...

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 842 - 21/05/2020 12:23:35    2278909

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Replying To Trump2020:  "If done right it could work. While Ireland would obviously be the center of Gaelic Games the vast majority of finances would come from outside Ireland. Of course the games would have to be very aggressively marketed outside Ireland. Example: Cycling's biggest event is the Tour De France but it's not just French cyclists and it's shown and marketed all over the world. As said before if you have a great product it would sell. And it's a lot better than a lot of the stuff that IS selling."
There is no guarantee that Ireland would be the center of the game. You look at what money has done to the game in the US and how it sucks young lads over every year to play there. If the game overseas continues to localise then in a generation you could have people involved who see the opportunity to turn a form of the game professional. If that ever happened would the game in Ireland survive? The biggest opportunity and threat to the GAA could be the overseas part not what happens in Ireland.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 663 - 23/05/2020 18:25:10    2279079

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Replying To zinny:  "There is no guarantee that Ireland would be the center of the game. You look at what money has done to the game in the US and how it sucks young lads over every year to play there. If the game overseas continues to localise then in a generation you could have people involved who see the opportunity to turn a form of the game professional. If that ever happened would the game in Ireland survive? The biggest opportunity and threat to the GAA could be the overseas part not what happens in Ireland."
There really is. Sport isnt played by other countries to any real extent outside of expats. Game would always survive heren

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 733 - 23/05/2020 19:21:01    2279081

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Replying To zinny:  "There is no guarantee that Ireland would be the center of the game. You look at what money has done to the game in the US and how it sucks young lads over every year to play there. If the game overseas continues to localise then in a generation you could have people involved who see the opportunity to turn a form of the game professional. If that ever happened would the game in Ireland survive? The biggest opportunity and threat to the GAA could be the overseas part not what happens in Ireland."
Very true there's no guarantee I'm just saying it's likely at least at first.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 842 - 23/05/2020 19:39:05    2279084

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I like it.

There'd be very few dead rubbers.

Say with 6 from 16 going into the playoffs and 3 from 16 teams getting relegated there's loads to play for.

Top your group gets a bye to the semis.

2nd/3rd place gets a playoff place.

4th-6th stays up. 7th place goes into a relegation playoff and the 8th placed teams go down.

There'd be good games week after week.

You always hear about this would mean the GAA is "leaving the path clear to other sports". There's a lot to be said for having a short sharp window for games.

The inter county season currently is quite fragmented. It's hard for excitement to kind of build. The super 8s were brought in to change that but a round robin after previous knockout rounds is a strange change of pace and I don't think people have responded well to it.

Groups of 4 actually are way more likely to have dead rubbers too. The last rounds of the super 8s haven't actually delivered lots of crunch fixtures. Having no relegation is a big factor in that.

A short window for games works well in a lot of sports.

American Football's NFL is played off in about 5 months. The soccer and rugby world cups get run off quickly. Basketball has a regular season which is kind of shadow boxing but then has its playoffs where the games come thick and fast.

They don't mind scheduling their games when they calendar is more clear because they want their games to be front and centre.

We schedule our games to compete with higher profile sports. It doesn't make sense. It kind of speaks to I think a lack of awareness of where we stand.

I do think a competition played off over June, July, August and early September. The games would be coming hard and fast and the excitement would build.

It would clash with the international soccer tournaments but the closing stages would be lost their completion. You can try and fit most group games in June and August with alternating break weekends in July for teams.

Shorter season and better train to games ratio might mean more players find it worth committing to the inter county game."
How about each top 3 to AI KO (like you have it), and each bottom 5 to Relegation KO - each 4th v other group 5th in SFs, and remaining 8 in 4 Finals - 4 losers down.
All 16 are guaranteed an 8th match.

If you permit me my quirky endeavours -
- Divide top 16 teams into 8 seeded pairs (1,16), (2,15) etc to (8,9) in Championship 1.
- Draw 3 groups (5,6,5 teams) of equal strength.
- Split the (8,9) seeds between the 5-team groups.
- Draw the remaining 7 pairs to the 3 groups.
- Groups of 5 play round robins; and the group of 6 (no round robin) plays both groups of 5 instead.
- All 16 play 10 matches & form one league table.
- Top 8 to AI KO QFs; Other 8 to Relegation KO SFs.
- KO seeds based on position (e.g. 1 hosts 8, 9h16).
- AI SFs at neutral Prov venues; best 4 of 8 low seeds host Relegation Finals.
- Do similar in Championship 2 (9-16 for Shield).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1768 - 26/05/2020 04:09:03    2279200

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That should state....best 2 of 4 low losing seeds host the 2 Relegation Finals.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1768 - 26/05/2020 04:14:54    2279201

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Omahant why have all these formats which take an age to explain. The best formats are simple and easy to explain. Most of yours are not.
Get rid of warm up competitions. No need for them. If people go on to say income from them goes to charities or whatever then use a percentage of income from far better attended games

Have a league as main competition. Multiple divisions with 10-12 games guaranteed maybe with finals to decide winners/who gets promoted and then have straight knockout all Ireland cup with Plate and bowl competitions for sides knocked out in 1st, 2nd round and then have provincial cups straight knockout.
No replays. Have league continuing throughout start of cups and maybe finish off season with final of all Ireland cup. All counties can plan season for clubs as will be designated weekends through league for club games to take place.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 733 - 26/05/2020 09:32:06    2279204

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None of those proposals will happen. The most we'll get out of the GAA is a Champions League format for a single tier or two tier championship.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 41 - 26/05/2020 10:26:56    2279210

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Omahant why have all these formats which take an age to explain. The best formats are simple and easy to explain. Most of yours are not.
Get rid of warm up competitions. No need for them. If people go on to say income from them goes to charities or whatever then use a percentage of income from far better attended games

Have a league as main competition. Multiple divisions with 10-12 games guaranteed maybe with finals to decide winners/who gets promoted and then have straight knockout all Ireland cup with Plate and bowl competitions for sides knocked out in 1st, 2nd round and then have provincial cups straight knockout.
No replays. Have league continuing throughout start of cups and maybe finish off season with final of all Ireland cup. All counties can plan season for clubs as will be designated weekends through league for club games to take place."
You would be unwilling to admit that my formats are less confusing than the Pro 14. Can you explain the latter - e.g. how are Confs reconfigured every two years ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1768 - 28/05/2020 00:17:13    2279364

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Omahant why have all these formats which take an age to explain. The best formats are simple and easy to explain. Most of yours are not.
Get rid of warm up competitions. No need for them. If people go on to say income from them goes to charities or whatever then use a percentage of income from far better attended games

Have a league as main competition. Multiple divisions with 10-12 games guaranteed maybe with finals to decide winners/who gets promoted and then have straight knockout all Ireland cup with Plate and bowl competitions for sides knocked out in 1st, 2nd round and then have provincial cups straight knockout.
No replays. Have league continuing throughout start of cups and maybe finish off season with final of all Ireland cup. All counties can plan season for clubs as will be designated weekends through league for club games to take place."
That's too many games.

You're talking 10 league games, 5 All Ireland games and 4 rounds for Provincial knockout in Ulster and Leinster.

It's too many county weekends.

19 county weekends (20 really because hurling and football finals won't be the same weekend)

There needs to be 12 weekends for club championships.
11 weekends for provincial and All Ireland club.

You're up to 42+ weekends of action at just a 10 game league season with no finals.

Where are the break weekends. What's the time period you play these games in.

The numbers don't add up.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2937 - 28/05/2020 10:10:41    2279372

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's too many games.

You're talking 10 league games, 5 All Ireland games and 4 rounds for Provincial knockout in Ulster and Leinster.

It's too many county weekends.

19 county weekends (20 really because hurling and football finals won't be the same weekend)

There needs to be 12 weekends for club championships.
11 weekends for provincial and All Ireland club.

You're up to 42+ weekends of action at just a 10 game league season with no finals.

Where are the break weekends. What's the time period you play these games in.

The numbers don't add up."
Clubs should be playing some games on county weekends. Counties knocked out of cups early can have club games on the later rounds of cups. Where clubs not affected by county call ups they play on weekends of county games.
Very simple.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 733 - 28/05/2020 10:45:29    2279374

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Clubs should be playing some games on county weekends. Counties knocked out of cups early can have club games on the later rounds of cups. Where clubs not affected by county call ups they play on weekends of county games.
Very simple."
They should play leagues on county weekends.

They should not be playing championship.

Club players need certainty over when they will play, not what ifs depending on when the county team is knocked out.

2 cup competitions is just not fit for purpose in solving fixtures issues.

The GAA is budgeting for 6 club championship rounds in each code going forward.

Dual counties need 12 weekends to play these competitions.

19 county rounds is too much.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2937 - 28/05/2020 11:12:29    2279376

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Replying To Whammo86:  "They should play leagues on county weekends.

They should not be playing championship.

Club players need certainty over when they will play, not what ifs depending on when the county team is knocked out.

2 cup competitions is just not fit for purpose in solving fixtures issues.

The GAA is budgeting for 6 club championship rounds in each code going forward.

Dual counties need 12 weekends to play these competitions.

19 county rounds is too much."
It is if you completely cut out replays. It is if you have definite in season for when counties will be playing all through the year to allow county coaches release players to play club games.
You can certainly play some club games on intercounty weekends. Especially as not all clubs have players involved in intercounty squads.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 733 - 28/05/2020 12:43:49    2279382

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Replying To Whammo86:  "They should play leagues on county weekends.

They should not be playing championship.

Club players need certainty over when they will play, not what ifs depending on when the county team is knocked out.

2 cup competitions is just not fit for purpose in solving fixtures issues.

The GAA is budgeting for 6 club championship rounds in each code going forward.

Dual counties need 12 weekends to play these competitions.

19 county rounds is too much."
You can play championship games of clubs with no players involved in the county squads
My proposal is far better than anything that happens now. Far more certainty in when the clubs will play.
Gaelic and hurling dont need same time for competitions in a lot of counties.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 733 - 28/05/2020 13:42:52    2279384

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