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Replying To TheFlaker: "There isn't a player or manager out there who is thinking about the league." U would need challenge matches before a championship what better than finish the league and starting into a championship.
Some games may be for nothing but others would have a championship feel.
No finals top 2 promoted bottom 2 relegated top team in division 1 league champs.
Give sky some of the games tg4 and rte it needs to be finished before restarting championship if the 2 tier system to be played next year.
OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 18/05/2020 09:32:14
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Replying To OhtobeARossie: "U would need challenge matches before a championship what better than finish the league and starting into a championship.
Some games may be for nothing but others would have a championship feel.
No finals top 2 promoted bottom 2 relegated top team in division 1 league champs.
Give sky some of the games tg4 and rte it needs to be finished before restarting championship if the 2 tier system to be played next year." I don't mind the idea of the league but I very much doubt the GAA are looking into how they can have the league instead of champ, if games are going ahead in some capacity they are going to have some form of championship.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 18/05/2020 11:07:32
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Replying To OhtobeARossie: "U would need challenge matches before a championship what better than finish the league and starting into a championship.
Some games may be for nothing but others would have a championship feel.
No finals top 2 promoted bottom 2 relegated top team in division 1 league champs.
Give sky some of the games tg4 and rte it needs to be finished before restarting championship if the 2 tier system to be played next year." Yeah you could sort of use the finishing of the League as challenge matches only a bit more important of course.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 18/05/2020 11:27:05
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Replying To TheFlaker: "I don't mind the idea of the league but I very much doubt the GAA are looking into how they can have the league instead of champ, if games are going ahead in some capacity they are going to have some form of championship." I guess you could do it if there was no break in between the League and the Championship.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 18/05/2020 17:51:33
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5 of the 7 league games has been played it would be silly it that now becomes null and void.
No need for NFL finals, (team that tops the group win the title) and when it's safe to re-start football the two remaining NFL games should be played before any championship/knockout tournament commences.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3743 - 18/05/2020 20:22:36
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For what it's worth: Celtic were crowned Scottish Premiere League Champions so maybe the same will happen in Football and Hurling and try to go straight to a knock out Championship if at all possible.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 18/05/2020 20:25:45
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With numbers dropping and hopefully this is a continuing trend as things open up, there may a change in the way that people think.
There are two groups of people on the board, those who believe nothing will happen until there is a vaccine and those that believe that games can go ahead without it but will require risk measures put in place to prevent someone passing it and to also limit the impact if someone plays who is positive. I believe Horans statement about social distancing was ill-advised and the GAA will change its tune soon enough however I am concerned.
The special congress only gave them the ability to change the championship what it did not do was give them the ability to change any rules that many be needed as part of the risk measures. I could list out multiple risk measures that could be used but the concern is who would enforce them and how. Take a simple one - subs on the sideline may not sit together in the dugout, so they would have to be at two meters apart - who enforces that - the ref? under what rule in the rule book - water bottles, water carriers etc, perhaps even mentors with facemasks, the GAA can issue guidelines but we all know that unless you have enforcement there will be too many people that ignore it. Then you look at the rules of the game - should the third man tackle be brought back in? will there be a need for specific water breaks? Should grabbing another players jersey be a black card? technically at the moment a ref could send off a player who get involved with one of those pushing and shoving incidents but nothing happens at the moment - rather than a red should it be black? Another one for Refs themselves - at the moment they have to speak to the player and take his name for a black/yellow/red but not for a tick! why? if the teamsheet has the players name and jersey number (at the moment the actual jersey number is not required) why not just take the number that would eliminate the need to speak to a player.
It has to be said that there are a lot of cases where the existing rules cover a lot of the issues that would arise but are not implemented to the letter of the law because perhaps the letter of the law is too harsh. However with the blackcard in Football at least there is a way there to widen its use so as to enforce existing and new rules. Like the 2K limit as a guideline without legal enforcement, it would have been a free for all - nobody try and tell me the GAA doesn't have these fools as well.
The GAA are a democratic bottoms up rules driven organisation which in times like this is a handicap. To get things up and running that may have to change at least on a temporary basis.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 19/05/2020 07:05:44
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Replying To The_analyser: "5 of the 7 league games has been played it would be silly it that now becomes null and void.
No need for NFL finals, (team that tops the group win the title) and when it's safe to re-start football the two remaining NFL games should be played before any championship/knockout tournament commences." Agree.
I would hope that, as a governing body, the GAA would have made plans for three or four different start date scenarios, maybe lock downs of 4, 8 and 12 weeks, developing to 24, 28 and 32 weeks as it became obvious that the original plans were hopelessly optimistic.
Start date is everything to deciding on the plan.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 19/05/2020 10:07:11
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Replying To zinny: "With numbers dropping and hopefully this is a continuing trend as things open up, there may a change in the way that people think.
There are two groups of people on the board, those who believe nothing will happen until there is a vaccine and those that believe that games can go ahead without it but will require risk measures put in place to prevent someone passing it and to also limit the impact if someone plays who is positive. I believe Horans statement about social distancing was ill-advised and the GAA will change its tune soon enough however I am concerned.
The special congress only gave them the ability to change the championship what it did not do was give them the ability to change any rules that many be needed as part of the risk measures. I could list out multiple risk measures that could be used but the concern is who would enforce them and how. Take a simple one - subs on the sideline may not sit together in the dugout, so they would have to be at two meters apart - who enforces that - the ref? under what rule in the rule book - water bottles, water carriers etc, perhaps even mentors with facemasks, the GAA can issue guidelines but we all know that unless you have enforcement there will be too many people that ignore it. Then you look at the rules of the game - should the third man tackle be brought back in? will there be a need for specific water breaks? Should grabbing another players jersey be a black card? technically at the moment a ref could send off a player who get involved with one of those pushing and shoving incidents but nothing happens at the moment - rather than a red should it be black? Another one for Refs themselves - at the moment they have to speak to the player and take his name for a black/yellow/red but not for a tick! why? if the teamsheet has the players name and jersey number (at the moment the actual jersey number is not required) why not just take the number that would eliminate the need to speak to a player.
It has to be said that there are a lot of cases where the existing rules cover a lot of the issues that would arise but are not implemented to the letter of the law because perhaps the letter of the law is too harsh. However with the blackcard in Football at least there is a way there to widen its use so as to enforce existing and new rules. Like the 2K limit as a guideline without legal enforcement, it would have been a free for all - nobody try and tell me the GAA doesn't have these fools as well.
The GAA are a democratic bottoms up rules driven organisation which in times like this is a handicap. To get things up and running that may have to change at least on a temporary basis." I'd say you might see some of the rule changes you suggested coming due to safety issues.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 19/05/2020 12:50:04
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Replying To zinny: "With numbers dropping and hopefully this is a continuing trend as things open up, there may a change in the way that people think.
There are two groups of people on the board, those who believe nothing will happen until there is a vaccine and those that believe that games can go ahead without it but will require risk measures put in place to prevent someone passing it and to also limit the impact if someone plays who is positive. I believe Horans statement about social distancing was ill-advised and the GAA will change its tune soon enough however I am concerned.
The special congress only gave them the ability to change the championship what it did not do was give them the ability to change any rules that many be needed as part of the risk measures. I could list out multiple risk measures that could be used but the concern is who would enforce them and how. Take a simple one - subs on the sideline may not sit together in the dugout, so they would have to be at two meters apart - who enforces that - the ref? under what rule in the rule book - water bottles, water carriers etc, perhaps even mentors with facemasks, the GAA can issue guidelines but we all know that unless you have enforcement there will be too many people that ignore it. Then you look at the rules of the game - should the third man tackle be brought back in? will there be a need for specific water breaks? Should grabbing another players jersey be a black card? technically at the moment a ref could send off a player who get involved with one of those pushing and shoving incidents but nothing happens at the moment - rather than a red should it be black? Another one for Refs themselves - at the moment they have to speak to the player and take his name for a black/yellow/red but not for a tick! why? if the teamsheet has the players name and jersey number (at the moment the actual jersey number is not required) why not just take the number that would eliminate the need to speak to a player.
It has to be said that there are a lot of cases where the existing rules cover a lot of the issues that would arise but are not implemented to the letter of the law because perhaps the letter of the law is too harsh. However with the blackcard in Football at least there is a way there to widen its use so as to enforce existing and new rules. Like the 2K limit as a guideline without legal enforcement, it would have been a free for all - nobody try and tell me the GAA doesn't have these fools as well.
The GAA are a democratic bottoms up rules driven organisation which in times like this is a handicap. To get things up and running that may have to change at least on a temporary basis." You are incorrect, Motion 2 at that special Congress gives them the power to suspend, alter or implement rules.
Your statement that " The GAA are a democratic bottoms up rules driven organisation which in times like this is a handicap. To get things up & running that may have to change at least on a temporary basis".
It did change. Like many who think that this is the greatest democratic sporting Association in the world, that has been well shot, when you consider 67 delegates decide to hand over complete powers to a 16 man management committee who can then decide if things cannot be run by them, they can then hand over power to a four man committee, (Motion 5 that passed) four people making major decisions, that's some democracy !
If they can hold an online special Congress for 67 & pass motions, why did they have to place power in the hands of 16 or 4 people. Dilution of power on major decisions to a few, just the beginning.
Lastly, your desire to get all matters GAA up & running is incredulous, you say that the President's statement on social distancing was ill advised, have you no concept of the number of people who have died or the people living at home with GAA players, people with underlying problems such as heart conditions, cancer, CF, Copd etc. Sometimes in life you have to learn to put others before yourself. It's laughable watching GAA clubs putting up signs supporting Frontline workers & Community, but yet want to get club & inter county games started asap, time for people to cop on, put others first, especially the vulnerable, take the pressure off frontline workers & look at others aspects of life, other than the rush back to play games at any cost.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 20/05/2020 22:19:31
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Replying To moc.dna: "You are incorrect, Motion 2 at that special Congress gives them the power to suspend, alter or implement rules.
Your statement that " The GAA are a democratic bottoms up rules driven organisation which in times like this is a handicap. To get things up & running that may have to change at least on a temporary basis".
It did change. Like many who think that this is the greatest democratic sporting Association in the world, that has been well shot, when you consider 67 delegates decide to hand over complete powers to a 16 man management committee who can then decide if things cannot be run by them, they can then hand over power to a four man committee, (Motion 5 that passed) four people making major decisions, that's some democracy !
If they can hold an online special Congress for 67 & pass motions, why did they have to place power in the hands of 16 or 4 people. Dilution of power on major decisions to a few, just the beginning.
Lastly, your desire to get all matters GAA up & running is incredulous, you say that the President's statement on social distancing was ill advised, have you no concept of the number of people who have died or the people living at home with GAA players, people with underlying problems such as heart conditions, cancer, CF, Copd etc. Sometimes in life you have to learn to put others before yourself. It's laughable watching GAA clubs putting up signs supporting Frontline workers & Community, but yet want to get club & inter county games started asap, time for people to cop on, put others first, especially the vulnerable, take the pressure off frontline workers & look at others aspects of life, other than the rush back to play games at any cost." Thanks, I had based my understanding on the news media rather than the actual motions which you are correct in saying that it covers all rules. However its not exactly undemocratic as the declaration still needs to be approved by central council (with further 12 week extensions also approved) which means that the decision is still monitored by an elected body from if you want down to the clubs. People can debate whether that is democracy but a lot of the time the biggest critics are the people who do not go to their own club AGM or get involved in these decisions from the ground up.
As I said there are two trains of thought on the play or not play and I respect the people who have the other view point. An individual has the right to play or not based on their own circumstances and for some that will be a very easy or tough decision. However at the heart of the other side is the view that going back to play does not pose any addition risk to society, so it does not impact those who do not wish to play. Some people will never accept that even if the authorities say that it is the case and thats ok but there should be no stigma attached either way.
Really the post was about rules if we do go back without a vaccine, what those rule would be and how would the GAA be able to enact and enforce them. The enacting part you have clarified - enforcement of rules has always been a problem with the GAA on and off the pitch, so really the next discussion is on what those rule changes would be. Everyone has discussed the potential changes to the leagues and championship structure but not how the game will be played which could in itself have a bigger impact on the game - especially hurling - elimination of the multiple man ruck for a ball and introduction of the sin bin.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 21/05/2020 07:04:49
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I would like to throw something out for discussion in light of the huge positivity in terms of all aspects of dealing with Covid 19. I think we all only want to restart sport in a safe environment. There is certainly a changing mindset at the moment in that now based on the large data we are assembling and the opinions of medical experts, there are now more people confident that with the correct measures in place then we can return to sport a lot earlier than planned without a vaccine. Lets assume this is possibility for a minute with the correct measures and we can make this happen with little or no risk of infection or bringing it home. The GAA have said that club will proceed county which is correct as the GAA is the heart of the community. With this in mind I would say that there are decisions to make here. Firstly should underage football return this year. My own personal opinion is that it should not for a few reasons, too many players, too many games and too much of a commitment on referees. The volume of games, the volume of players and considering the challenges of maintaining social distancing in these age groups, I just cant see it in the current climate. I was coming out of a food store the other day, 4 young lads definitely 15/16/17 age group, packed in a car, windows down smoking. Adults have more awareness of the importance of our actions. For me I would say no to underage football. I would also say no to intercounty football with the aim to complete this year's league in advance of the 2021 league next year. This leaves senior club football which for me is the one that makes most sense to recommence first. With no underage and no intercounty, clubs may have only one senior team or they may have two (a senior and junior team). I would say that all senior club championships without the distractions and complications of underage and inter county would be the correct way to get GAA back in some form in 2020. Now this is an opinion and I would like to hear other opinions on this.
rossno1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 294 - 23/05/2020 14:30:58
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How will the ordinary Joe soap club team fund testing for players? How will these players isolate since they are Amatuer ? . Horan was right with his stance.
Look at the Premier League and the measures they are taking in training and that's professional.
The numbers might be going down but that doesn't mean rush back, they predict a second wave.. 3 new forms of the Virus confirmed in children.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 23/05/2020 15:29:45
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Replying To FoolsGold: "How will the ordinary Joe soap club team fund testing for players? How will these players isolate since they are Amatuer ? . Horan was right with his stance.
Look at the Premier League and the measures they are taking in training and that's professional.
The numbers might be going down but that doesn't mean rush back, they predict a second wave.. 3 new forms of the Virus confirmed in children." Not just with the Premier League but it's a joke that healthy wealthy young professional footballers are getting tested while people are still dying with elderly, at risk and frontline workers more in need of tests.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 23/05/2020 15:56:55
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If one person in a GAA team tests positive, probably every other team mate, plus maybe some training staff, will have to self-isolate for 14 days, this will include whoever lives with them; wives. husbands, partners, parents and children. That means no going to work for any of them. There are millionaire professional soccer players refusing to return to work, but some people expect amatuer GAA players to risk everything for their entertainment.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 23/05/2020 16:24:01
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "If one person in a GAA team tests positive, probably every other team mate, plus maybe some training staff, will have to self-isolate for 14 days, this will include whoever lives with them; wives. husbands, partners, parents and children. That means no going to work for any of them. There are millionaire professional soccer players refusing to return to work, but some people expect amatuer GAA players to risk everything for their entertainment." I'd say everyone here knows the risks but most are just posting wishful thinking type of stuff. The odds are against any kind of GAA season. Your post was 100% correct.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 23/05/2020 17:33:18
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Replying To rossno1: "I would like to throw something out for discussion in light of the huge positivity in terms of all aspects of dealing with Covid 19. I think we all only want to restart sport in a safe environment. There is certainly a changing mindset at the moment in that now based on the large data we are assembling and the opinions of medical experts, there are now more people confident that with the correct measures in place then we can return to sport a lot earlier than planned without a vaccine. Lets assume this is possibility for a minute with the correct measures and we can make this happen with little or no risk of infection or bringing it home. The GAA have said that club will proceed county which is correct as the GAA is the heart of the community. With this in mind I would say that there are decisions to make here. Firstly should underage football return this year. My own personal opinion is that it should not for a few reasons, too many players, too many games and too much of a commitment on referees. The volume of games, the volume of players and considering the challenges of maintaining social distancing in these age groups, I just cant see it in the current climate. I was coming out of a food store the other day, 4 young lads definitely 15/16/17 age group, packed in a car, windows down smoking. Adults have more awareness of the importance of our actions. For me I would say no to underage football. I would also say no to intercounty football with the aim to complete this year's league in advance of the 2021 league next year. This leaves senior club football which for me is the one that makes most sense to recommence first. With no underage and no intercounty, clubs may have only one senior team or they may have two (a senior and junior team). I would say that all senior club championships without the distractions and complications of underage and inter county would be the correct way to get GAA back in some form in 2020. Now this is an opinion and I would like to hear other opinions on this." Yea even though all a lot of the data now points to the fact that young children are a less risk that adults in the spread of the virus, its a natural human reaction to protect the children first. I think your point is valid though, to get back up and running choices will have to be made. Club would have a lot to deal with, attendance logs, temperature checks, toilet cleaning, etc. doing it for all age groups would be very difficult. The other issue is of course that with underage you have parents on the sidelines which is another headache for the clubs and administration.
The one thing I would say in favor of underage is that at least it gets the kids out and exercising in what should be a save environment. We know that come summer when the presence of school is done keeping the kids indoors all day will be difficult and the worse of the two evils.
So while it wouldn't be impossible to do it and perhaps based on current thinking the safest group to bring back first, I cannot see it happening as it would also be the most chaotic group to bring back.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 23/05/2020 17:55:36
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Replying To Trump2020: "I'd say everyone here knows the risks but most are just posting wishful thinking type of stuff. The odds are against any kind of GAA season. Your post was 100% correct." You have fairly changed your tone on this! Gone from childish responses to posters who said there probably won't be a championship to now agreeing wholeheartedly with the same type of posts.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 23/05/2020 21:59:19
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Replying To TheFlaker: "You have fairly changed your tone on this! Gone from childish responses to posters who said there probably won't be a championship to now agreeing wholeheartedly with the same type of posts." I don't think any side of the debate has a monopoly on childish and ill-though out responses. Some people are driven by emotions and thats fair enough as the virus could have effected them personally more than others. My issue is with the fact that even now people cannot see that what the country went through was not how things need to be in the future if the health authorities and the government have got it right. Our health lads like to link ourselves to NZ and while we are not there yet, it is where they want to get to. So with that in mind its worth looking at the below. Rugby is like the GAA to Ireland. This is about club and school rugby not professionals so is very relevant. NZ will continue to have social distancing in this time but yet here people cannot understand how the concept of contact sport and social distancing can co-exist.
https://www.nzrugby.co.nz/news-and-events/covid-19/
I would also bet that the GAA in Australia and NZ will be back up running very soon as well. People can say they are ahead of us in terms of controlling the virus but is that not where we want to be as well, why is it that hard to believe that Ireland may get there as well?
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 24/05/2020 09:23:04
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NZ is very remote. 3 hour flight from Australia.
Europe is a epicentre of the Virus. The southern hemisphere isn't.
NZ closed their borders early, dealt with it well. Italian flans flew into Ireland when Rugby was called off here. The borders should have been closed here early too.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 24/05/2020 10:06:10
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