National Forum

The Corona Virus And Possible Effects To GAA Matches

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Replying To munsterchamps:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "[quote=Morty:  "[quote=Stmunnsriver:  "i have said on here several times there will be no gaa this year or next, weeks ago i asked 2 barrister friends [one x county footballer
if the gaa would be libel if they restarted games and lads got infected, one reply was frightening, " i doubt in the long run if they would be found libel but without a doubt if anyone got infected at a match they could sue , now in the long run they will more than likely loose it in the high court , but it could tie the gaa up for up to 6 to 10 years in the high court costing millions and in the meantime no games could be played. there it is, from a barrister"
I don't think you know what libel means"]He means liable."]whether its libel or liable there isn't a court in the world would entertain it because what proof would someone have where they caught the virus...."]Players would have to sign a waiver if they returned to play. Can't see too many of them doing that unless they're single and living alone or GAA can test them, isolate them for two weeks before team training, then isolate squads and backroom teams for training and games. Even if the GAA could pay for that healthy hurlers and footballers shouldn't get any priority for testing over people at risk or frontline workers that need testing and retesting.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5636 - 12/05/2020 09:51:44    2277991

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Replying To arock:  "First off, there would not be a court in that land that would entertain someone sueing because they played a match and got Covid19 not a chance. You are taking a known risk, forget it, so lets park that one. Secondly the notion nothing is going to happen until there is a vaccination is pure fantasy, there will be no vaccine, virus is way too complex. Thirdly it is going to be all about economics. When you see on RTE a news item stating a 600 seat capacity train with social distancing will have 67 places you know the lunatics have just taken over tge asylum. Totally unworkable, economically impossible. From the end of July this country is going to have to start borrowing just to keep going. Point is the economy has to be up and running by mid june no matter what the medics say. Ditto with everything including sport, GAA can have a social conscience but if soccer, ruby and other sports are running GAA will have to as well. Forget sueing anyone it cant happen no one is twisting our arm to play."
It doesn't need a court to entertain a case to open the floodgates you know.

All it takes is one lawyer telling a client they have an arguable case. Then others follow, and very possible all through the same legal firm. It doesn't need a court to subsequently rule in their client's favour in order to swamp the GAA for years to come before there's ever a hearing. If any player contracts it from playing, and suffers loss asa a result, and especially if an identifiable cluster emerges in a team, he or she if they so want will find a lawyer who'll construct a case for them, possibly on a no foal no fee basis.

An arguable case will always be found and big organisations are loathe to take their chances in court and will settle rather than risk, not just losing, but often just as damaging is having their defence fully aired in public allowing other lawyers, waiting in the wings with other cases, to pick their way through that defence.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1227 - 12/05/2020 10:03:21    2277992

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The survey the CPA did is platformed to suit one agenda , its says only 57% of players would play without a vaccine . You could turn it the other way and say only 21% wouldn't play ??
If some people have their way their won't be a match for ten years not to mind this year .

OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 212 - 12/05/2020 10:21:16    2277993

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I have two suggestions for the league, if there's gonna be no football this year.

a) Just maybe play off the last two rounds of the league next year and get it finished that way, a year late.

b) Expand this year's league into home and away games, with 14 games for each team, with 5 games already played and 9 games to be played in 2021. At least this year's league wouldn't be written off and would still count for something. You could scrap the pre-season competitions to make way for it.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 560 - 12/05/2020 10:30:34    2277994

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I have two suggestions for the league, if there's gonna be no football this year.

a) Just maybe play off the last two rounds of the league next year and get it finished that way, a year late.

b) Expand this year's league into home and away games, with 14 games for each team, with 5 games already played and 9 games to be played in 2021. At least this year's league wouldn't be written off and would still count for something. You could scrap the pre-season competitions to make way for it."
Scrap pre season competitions altogether
Teams play as many or as few games as they like. No competitions needed. Any fundraising from these games can be raised instead at/during a round of an extended league competition like the way you have suggested which would continue through summer and through championship with guaranteed time for clubs as well
Best solution going forward

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 833 - 12/05/2020 11:25:12    2277998

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I have two suggestions for the league, if there's gonna be no football this year.

a) Just maybe play off the last two rounds of the league next year and get it finished that way, a year late.

b) Expand this year's league into home and away games, with 14 games for each team, with 5 games already played and 9 games to be played in 2021. At least this year's league wouldn't be written off and would still count for something. You could scrap the pre-season competitions to make way for it."
Nah don't see either as viable tbh. The fairest thing is to make it null and void.
Look take my own county for example, already relegated going into last two matches, this year it would have been all about performing against dubs for a potential Leinster meeting and then v Monaghan again all prep for championship, going all out to win
Next year? What's the point, Andy mcentee would be lynched if he risked the top players v dubs or Monaghan with a div 2 campaign a couple weeks away and hopes of immediate return to div 1, he'd play it with less impotence than o Byrne cup, with probably those outside the 26 getting a run out, the knock on effect would almost certainly see mayo relegated, would they feel aggrieved that Meath effectively gave dub and Monaghan a bye ?
Not saying Meath would have beaten either. But u get my point.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16573 - 12/05/2020 12:45:30    2278002

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Interesting take - your last paragraph. This is purely idle speculation at 9 in the morning and I'm still half asleep, but I'm wondering if there is potential for the pub industry to take advantage of the "randomness gone" point you made.

What I'm thinking is could pubs work temporarily on a reservation system like a restaurant? Start off slowly, 3-5 mates could book a 2 hour slot, paying a nominal fee to do so. They go in and enjoy a few pints and a catch up sitting apart. An hour is then spent disinfecting until the next 2 hour slot for the next 3-5 mates etc. I suppose the advantage to this would be the pub could then easily provide contact tracing via its booking system if required. Obviously there would also need to be a nominated person from the same house who would pick up each individual drinker.

Over time, and after careful monitoring, could try increasing the number of people from 5-8 etc.

There are guaranteed flaws to such a plan that I haven't thought of, and maybe this would only work in small country pubs. Maybe not even financially viable? But just off the top of my head

5 lads €10/hr in a two hour slot = €100
In the 2 hours they might have 5 pints = €125

It's by no means ideal, and a far cry from the craic of a normal Saturday night or whatever, but I do think that if our pub industry is to survive then a bit of out-of-the-box thinking will be needed."
I don't think you are far from what they will eventually have to do. The IVF plan was not too far off but still missed the whole fact that you are in a confined space and even if the tables are two meters away they are close enough to be at risk. I have seen it where you have to reserve the tables and everyone at the table has to be known and contactable by the bar. I am not an IT person but I could imagine there is an app that could be developed that allows pubs or whoever to issue memberships QR Code based on a phone number only, that way no names etc have to be taken, someone scans the QR Code on the way in and way out, if anyone in the bar ever tests positive it would be possible to contact anyone in the bar at that time. One app should be able to do multiple bars. That number could also be assigned to a table to narrow it down further. Taking names won't work as lads will give false names and numbers - not saying it would be for the same reason but in Seoul thats what happened so contact tracing out the window. Pubs are going to be based on table service only and with gaps between the tables - requires more staff per punter for less revenue, they will need to get it back somehow.
Thinking outside the box may also allow people to get comfortable with the GAA. I wonder if the GPS trackers could be modified so as to show how many actual close contacts a player would have during a game? Would it be the same for 7s as 15s ok clearly less players on the pitch but more chance you having to interact with all of them. Then that would require actual games to be played! Club games would differ to inter-county etc but it would at least provide a better analysis of the risk for players and ensure that in the event of a post positive not all players need to be isolated.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 723 - 12/05/2020 12:53:48    2278005

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "It doesn't need a court to entertain a case to open the floodgates you know.

All it takes is one lawyer telling a client they have an arguable case. Then others follow, and very possible all through the same legal firm. It doesn't need a court to subsequently rule in their client's favour in order to swamp the GAA for years to come before there's ever a hearing. If any player contracts it from playing, and suffers loss asa a result, and especially if an identifiable cluster emerges in a team, he or she if they so want will find a lawyer who'll construct a case for them, possibly on a no foal no fee basis.

An arguable case will always be found and big organisations are loathe to take their chances in court and will settle rather than risk, not just losing, but often just as damaging is having their defence fully aired in public allowing other lawyers, waiting in the wings with other cases, to pick their way through that defence."
Wont happen, just scare mongering, so we organise our entire organisation around the possibility someone will sue? Bizarre conclusion, you play at your own risk, travel insurance will not cover you for Covid-19, you cannot insurance a known risk. That doesn't mean you cannot travel nor you cannot play just you are not covered for Covid 19 (nor the common cold). People need to get a reality check. If you don't want to play, just don't play it is very very simple but don't stop others doing it.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4319 - 12/05/2020 13:00:36    2278007

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Incorrect. Developing a vaccine will not be a walk in the park. But to say it's way too complex is wrong. Compared to something like HIV, this coronavirus is much simpler in its make-up.

The approach you seem to be advocating in June is herd immunity. The economy being more important the health of the nation. This is what Boris and co initially went with and it has left them with the highest Covid death rate in Europe. There have been examples already of countries easing lockdown slightly, only to see a increase in Covid cases again. Whilst I agree that the economy is a very close second in terms of importance, it is a huge ethical dilemma for the government to deal with.

Being very callous about it, the big question to be answered will be, "are we willing to suffer potentially thousands of people dying for the perceived 'greater good' of the country?""
There will not be a Vaccine, this is a Coronavirus, there is no vaccine for SARS or MERS and they have been around since early 2000's. There maybe other treatements that can negate the effects of a virus like HIV or Covid 19 (there is no vaccine for that either) but you will not have a vaccine for years if ever. The economic reality is we cannot afford this indefinitely CIE companies are running out of money by end of month, virtually all business has ground to a halt, Dublin City Council has zero income to provide its services, other councils the same, who is going to foot this massive bill and how are we going to pay for it? if 40% of the population is not working and 40% are working for the state? Who do we borrow from? if everyone else is looking for same? if we do how do we pay it back? Back to the pitch and the GAA the basic principle has to apply, if you do not want to play don't play, but don't stop others from playing. Waiting for a vaccine is the same as waiting for Godot, it will never come, so what is your plan then?

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4319 - 12/05/2020 13:14:35    2278008

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Replying To zinny:  "I don't think you are far from what they will eventually have to do. The IVF plan was not too far off but still missed the whole fact that you are in a confined space and even if the tables are two meters away they are close enough to be at risk. I have seen it where you have to reserve the tables and everyone at the table has to be known and contactable by the bar. I am not an IT person but I could imagine there is an app that could be developed that allows pubs or whoever to issue memberships QR Code based on a phone number only, that way no names etc have to be taken, someone scans the QR Code on the way in and way out, if anyone in the bar ever tests positive it would be possible to contact anyone in the bar at that time. One app should be able to do multiple bars. That number could also be assigned to a table to narrow it down further. Taking names won't work as lads will give false names and numbers - not saying it would be for the same reason but in Seoul thats what happened so contact tracing out the window. Pubs are going to be based on table service only and with gaps between the tables - requires more staff per punter for less revenue, they will need to get it back somehow.
Thinking outside the box may also allow people to get comfortable with the GAA. I wonder if the GPS trackers could be modified so as to show how many actual close contacts a player would have during a game? Would it be the same for 7s as 15s ok clearly less players on the pitch but more chance you having to interact with all of them. Then that would require actual games to be played! Club games would differ to inter-county etc but it would at least provide a better analysis of the risk for players and ensure that in the event of a post positive not all players need to be isolated."
I'm in the IT game myself so an app such as the one you outlined would not be difficult to develop at all given the technology is already there. It would just need some small refinement to cater for the particular industry it was tailored for. QR scanning is the best way to go about it with regard to GDPR compliance as well.

Look, the thought of a structured pub experience might not appeal to people. But it could be a long time before we ever get back to being able to enjoy a traditional night out. "New normal" is a phrase being bandied about a lot currently. We might just have to make-do with temporary arrangements such as these. Pubs that have large beer gardens might have an advantage over others?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6828 - 12/05/2020 13:36:06    2278010

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Replying To arock:  "There will not be a Vaccine, this is a Coronavirus, there is no vaccine for SARS or MERS and they have been around since early 2000's. There maybe other treatements that can negate the effects of a virus like HIV or Covid 19 (there is no vaccine for that either) but you will not have a vaccine for years if ever. The economic reality is we cannot afford this indefinitely CIE companies are running out of money by end of month, virtually all business has ground to a halt, Dublin City Council has zero income to provide its services, other councils the same, who is going to foot this massive bill and how are we going to pay for it? if 40% of the population is not working and 40% are working for the state? Who do we borrow from? if everyone else is looking for same? if we do how do we pay it back? Back to the pitch and the GAA the basic principle has to apply, if you do not want to play don't play, but don't stop others from playing. Waiting for a vaccine is the same as waiting for Godot, it will never come, so what is your plan then?"
So are scientists all over the world just trying to develop a vaccine for the craic or what?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6828 - 12/05/2020 13:37:40    2278011

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Jaysus - there's some dismal fellas on this forum.

Pass me the cyanide.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 319 - 12/05/2020 13:39:45    2278012

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Replying To arock:  "There will not be a Vaccine, this is a Coronavirus, there is no vaccine for SARS or MERS and they have been around since early 2000's. There maybe other treatements that can negate the effects of a virus like HIV or Covid 19 (there is no vaccine for that either) but you will not have a vaccine for years if ever. The economic reality is we cannot afford this indefinitely CIE companies are running out of money by end of month, virtually all business has ground to a halt, Dublin City Council has zero income to provide its services, other councils the same, who is going to foot this massive bill and how are we going to pay for it? if 40% of the population is not working and 40% are working for the state? Who do we borrow from? if everyone else is looking for same? if we do how do we pay it back? Back to the pitch and the GAA the basic principle has to apply, if you do not want to play don't play, but don't stop others from playing. Waiting for a vaccine is the same as waiting for Godot, it will never come, so what is your plan then?"
I've been saying this a long time ago. There will have to be some exit strategy in time.

moros (Roscommon) - Posts: 969 - 12/05/2020 13:54:01    2278014

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Replying To moros:  "I've been saying this a long time ago. There will have to be some exit strategy in time."
there are 7 or 8 very good vaccine candidates in testing and the likelihood is at least one of these will come on stream in january/february, in the meantime yes the economy has to start getting back on track gradually but an amateur game where players have jobs and vulnerable family members does not anytime soon, so we can give it until next February and see what is available in terms of vaccines then make the decision on fixtures then and hopefully save a few lives in the process

dec (None) - Posts: 232 - 12/05/2020 15:53:10    2278018

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "So are scientists all over the world just trying to develop a vaccine for the craic or what?"
Well it would silly if they weren't trying, that's their job. But developing one that works is another matter. No vaccine was developed for SARS after various testing.

Maybe that this has hit every part of the world there might be more expertise, but its a hope.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2031 - 12/05/2020 16:01:33    2278019

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There is some amount of stuff being spouted on here. Not everyone thinks the world should stop until there is a vaccine as some people seem to think that is what is being indicated by posters who are cautious.

The GAA like everything else will have to adapt but the likelihood is there will be no championship this year for inter county or club for a number of reasons. It will go ahead next year as will other sport as we will know a lot more about fighting and stopping the spread of the virus.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6668 - 12/05/2020 16:15:49    2278020

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It's worth pointing out that the last pandemic that was anything as widespread as this was the Spanish flu in 1918-20.

50 million died - which is a lot - but still only about 3% of the world's 1.5bn population at the time.

We need to start thinking about the 97% of us who are left and wondering less about whether we'll be in the 3%.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 319 - 12/05/2020 16:36:55    2278024

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "There is some amount of stuff being spouted on here. Not everyone thinks the world should stop until there is a vaccine as some people seem to think that is what is being indicated by posters who are cautious.

The GAA like everything else will have to adapt but the likelihood is there will be no championship this year for inter county or club for a number of reasons. It will go ahead next year as will other sport as we will know a lot more about fighting and stopping the spread of the virus."
Be some championship in club next year with over a year off and no collective training there will have to be some amount of laps ran! If we can't play or train In October/November won't be much difference next January/February so how do we just go back to it then do we just start to ignore the virus or what!

theyoungbuck89 (Galway) - Posts: 54 - 12/05/2020 16:39:14    2278025

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Well it would silly if they weren't trying, that's their job. But developing one that works is another matter. No vaccine was developed for SARS after various testing.

Maybe that this has hit every part of the world there might be more expertise, but its a hope."
Yep. But the difference is SARS was relatively well contained, so the urgency to develop a vaccine wasn't the same.
As you say, with Covid-19 being a worldwide pandemic, it hopefully means more of the world's brightest minds are working on a solution.

You would like to think that the threat to humanity would be a big enough driving force. But the cynic in me thinks that it's the massive payday for whoever comes up with a vaccine first, coupled with the greed of capitalism makes me confident they will get there.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6828 - 12/05/2020 16:44:28    2278026

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Have read a lot of the posts here and the amount of amateur health experts, amateur lawyers and amateur fortune tellers is amazing especially the ones with the definitive position who are all knowing. Look it's 20 weeks to the first of October and it's less than 10 weeks since Covid arrived here-if the country changes half as much before October as it has since the start of March who knows where we will be or what we will be aloud to do or not. So leave it up to the experts they DO know more than us.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 371 - 12/05/2020 16:50:14    2278027

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