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Replying To Galwaymaster9:  "I'd have Mc Manus over O Connor any and every day of the week.."
No one's offering:)

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2065 - 14/02/2020 16:31:02    2267710

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Replying To MayoDan:  "I never said that?"
You're right, my apologies.

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 277 - 14/02/2020 16:39:15    2267714

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Own up Mayo lads. Which of yis won the lotto yis jammie fecks!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 3954 - 14/02/2020 17:45:58    2267722

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Replying To TheBishop:  "James O'Donoghue has gone backwards.

Are you suggesting Cillian O'Connor has been a better player than Bernard Brogan & Conor McManus? O'Connor must have played nearly 15 games between All Ireland semi finals and finals and even replays. I reckon in about half of those games he's not contributed a score from play.

O'Connor is a very good player but can think of 15-20 forwards off the top of my head that are better than him and I'd rather have in my team."
I think the less you are in the public eye the better player you are perceived to be. Cillian has played in nine All Ireland semi finals, including replays, and has scored an average of eight points per game. So there are 15 forwards out there who would have bettered that. Interesting!

Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1068 - 14/02/2020 18:54:01    2267733

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Being honest O'Connor seems to be harsly treated for his contribution and certainly I would not see McManus (a great player in his own right) as necessarily better. However the biggest issue I have had with O'Connor has been his discipline. Moaned to refs lot over the years more than any other top forward I am aware of but in terms of contributing has been very significant for Mayo particularly up to 2017.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1659 - 14/02/2020 21:57:19    2267761

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This debate still ongoing..? Cillain is an excellent free taker and not a profilic scorer from play...so what? Every team has that sort of player...Cillain is not gifted with pace? Again that genetics and can't be changed.

The big problem was/is the lack of ONE special free scoring forward...throw a Connolly, Brogan, Murphy, Cooper into the Mayo team since 2011 and we would have won at least one if not 2/3 All Ireland's.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10030 - 15/02/2020 09:23:05    2267788

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I often wonder about the "from play" stat, must be the most irrelevant stat in the game or made by those reaching and working hard to make a point.

Its not like its chalked off the score board or influences a game, free takers and set piece takers are some of the most skillful and revered in in our game, yet their often seems like a purposeful will to dumb down their contribution to the scoreline. They are players that need to be cultivated with huge respect and our probably some of the most unique in the game.

Its like saying yeah Johnny Sexton is good but he get very little from play.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3244 - 15/02/2020 11:07:50    2267799

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Usually when there is a colour clash both team wear alternative jersey. Given that Kerry's new alternative is very similar/same to Mayo's be interesting to see what will happen for league game in a few weeks.

Mfs (Mayo) - Posts: 191 - 15/02/2020 11:14:21    2267800

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Replying To kiloughter:  "Being honest O'Connor seems to be harsly treated for his contribution and certainly I would not see McManus (a great player in his own right) as necessarily better. However the biggest issue I have had with O'Connor has been his discipline. Moaned to refs lot over the years more than any other top forward I am aware of but in terms of contributing has been very significant for Mayo particularly up to 2017."
Cillian o Connor couldn't lace the boots of mc manus. There is 3 types of forwards. 1. The class act, the legend.. gooch Cooper Murphy brogan mc manus mc conville . 2. The great forward.....cillian o Connor, Ronan clarke, padraic joyce, James o donoghue, paddy mc breatery etc. 3. Then the forward, mc namee, Owen Mulligan, coulter, cox, Kevin mc Laughlin, mickey newman, Stephan campbell, Rian o neill.
There will be controversy over the classification of some of those but you get the jist of it.

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 166 - 15/02/2020 12:59:31    2267810

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Cillian o Connor couldn't lace the boots of mc manus. There is 3 types of forwards. 1. The class act, the legend.. gooch Cooper Murphy brogan mc manus mc conville . 2. The great forward.....cillian o Connor, Ronan clarke, padraic joyce, James o donoghue, paddy mc breatery etc. 3. Then the forward, mc namee, Owen Mulligan, coulter, cox, Kevin mc Laughlin, mickey newman, Stephan campbell, Rian o neill.
There will be controversy over the classification of some of those but you get the jist of it."
I've heard it all now. Joyce lower than McManus. When Conor has two All Irelands, scores double digits in an All Ireland final against a fullback of the standard of Darren Fay, we will speak again, you can also add in Hogan cup and Sigerson cups.

But on reflection PJ played in a Galway Junior B league this year, perhaps that is the level you're comparing the players at!!!

GDL (Galway) - Posts: 386 - 15/02/2020 14:44:08    2267820

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Cillian o Connor couldn't lace the boots of mc manus. There is 3 types of forwards. 1. The class act, the legend.. gooch Cooper Murphy brogan mc manus mc conville . 2. The great forward.....cillian o Connor, Ronan clarke, padraic joyce, James o donoghue, paddy mc breatery etc. 3. Then the forward, mc namee, Owen Mulligan, coulter, cox, Kevin mc Laughlin, mickey newman, Stephan campbell, Rian o neill.
There will be controversy over the classification of some of those but you get the jist of it."
Padraig Joyce was on a Different level to most. If Cillain can't lace Conor McManus boots then in turn McManus isn't on the same planet as Joyce.

Interesting to note that O'Connor and McManus have both played 55 times for their county.

McManus has scored: 7-204 (2007 - present)
O'Connor: 25-297 (2011 - present)

Now I know scores from play are worth more in according to many here so maybe someone has the breakdown of that?

Btw: Personally I think McManus is a fantastic player and I would love to have him in Mayo.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10030 - 15/02/2020 15:50:01    2267829

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Padraig Joyce was on a Different level to most. If Cillain can't lace Conor McManus boots then in turn McManus isn't on the same planet as Joyce.

Interesting to note that O'Connor and McManus have both played 55 times for their county.

McManus has scored: 7-204 (2007 - present)
O'Connor: 25-297 (2011 - present)

Now I know scores from play are worth more in according to many here so maybe someone has the breakdown of that?

Btw: Personally I think McManus is a fantastic player and I would love to have him in Mayo."
Maybe I got Joyce wrong. Sorry.....but pound for pound skillwise leaving out scoring leaving out success. Who's a better all round footballer cillian or mc manus? Take into account skill power discipline, both feet, speed, ball winning ability, leadership. Mc manus trumps him all day.

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 166 - 15/02/2020 16:22:27    2267833

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Padraig Joyce was on a Different level to most. If Cillain can't lace Conor McManus boots then in turn McManus isn't on the same planet as Joyce.

Interesting to note that O'Connor and McManus have both played 55 times for their county.

McManus has scored: 7-204 (2007 - present)
O'Connor: 25-297 (2011 - present)

Now I know scores from play are worth more in according to many here so maybe someone has the breakdown of that?

Btw: Personally I think McManus is a fantastic player and I would love to have him in Mayo."
It's a bit skewed to be fair,
Ulster is a minefield where teams sit deep and are more or less on the same level ..
O Connor played in a team that blitzed connacht for best part of decade.

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 221 - 15/02/2020 16:25:23    2267834

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Cillian o Connor couldn't lace the boots of mc manus. There is 3 types of forwards. 1. The class act, the legend.. gooch Cooper Murphy brogan mc manus mc conville . 2. The great forward.....cillian o Connor, Ronan clarke, padraic joyce, James o donoghue, paddy mc breatery etc. 3. Then the forward, mc namee, Owen Mulligan, coulter, cox, Kevin mc Laughlin, mickey newman, Stephan campbell, Rian o neill.
There will be controversy over the classification of some of those but you get the jist of it."
You've thrown a grenade in there for Galway supporters. :)
Joyce ticks all the boxes of a top tier forward. Quality, doing it in the biggest games, scored plenty and great longevity. He had huge contributions in our final wins in 1998 and 2001. He's definitely in a bracket above Ronan Clarke, James O'Donoghue and Paddy McBrearty.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 656 - 15/02/2020 16:25:50    2267835

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How come O Connor is the leading all times scoring forward at a young age and having played less games than the likes of Gooch, Brogan ,McManus ,Murphy and Joyce, just asking .

culmore (None) - Posts: 1391 - 15/02/2020 17:12:56    2267842

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Maybe I got Joyce wrong. Sorry.....but pound for pound skillwise leaving out scoring leaving out success. Who's a better all round footballer cillian or mc manus? Take into account skill power discipline, both feet, speed, ball winning ability, leadership. Mc manus trumps him all day."
McManus is naturally more skillful and easy on the eye than COC....although COC has showed great leadership. I just think too many like to put the bolt into Cillain and knock the lad...he is the highest ever scorer.

Maybe it's his displine and I'll admit he has had me mad when my club plays ballintubber but look every team needs a few villains...Mayo were all
Nice guys for years.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10030 - 15/02/2020 17:18:44    2267843

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Replying To BeJasus:  "It's a bit skewed to be fair,
Ulster is a minefield where teams sit deep and are more or less on the same level ..
O Connor played in a team that blitzed connacht for best part of decade."
A decade? It was 5 in a row Connacht titles we won...seems like a lifetime ago now. Come on look at the facts....Mayo walloped Sligo in the 2015 Connacht final....walloped Galway in Salthill in 2013 (when many pundits tipped Galway at the time)....we got through tight tough games v Roscommon and Sligo on a few occasions...people forget those games for some resason.

Ah sure Mayomhave it easy in Connacht....ah sure ye play a load of games in the qualifiers....someone is always ready with an excuse when debating Mayo.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10030 - 15/02/2020 17:21:34    2267845

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Replying To BeJasus:  "It's a bit skewed to be fair,
Ulster is a minefield where teams sit deep and are more or less on the same level ..
O Connor played in a team that blitzed connacht for best part of decade."
Blitzed Connacht? We haven't even reached a Connacht final for the last 4 years. Apart from possibly 2012 and 2013 the other 3 Connacht titles Cillian won were hard got. Packed defenses are in every province. Did you not see Galway under Kevin Walsh? Cillian consistently puts up big scores in the later rounds of the the championship.

This is the kind of rubbish you hear around Cillian. His scoring rate increases from the all Ireland quarter final onwards.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 181 - 15/02/2020 18:16:51    2267856

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Replying To yew_tree:  "This debate still ongoing..? Cillain is an excellent free taker and not a profilic scorer from play...so what? Every team has that sort of player...Cillain is not gifted with pace? Again that genetics and can't be changed.

The big problem was/is the lack of ONE special free scoring forward...throw a Connolly, Brogan, Murphy, Cooper into the Mayo team since 2011 and we would have won at least one if not 2/3 All Ireland's."
Do Murphy and Connolly consistently put up big scores from play? They're 2 quality players and I'm not knocking them, but Cillian has hit a hat trick in an all Ireland quarter final before. If David Clifford did that this year we'd have a media love in for two weeks!

It's easy to say if we had another quality forward we'd win an All Ireland. You could also say if Stephen Cluxton was from Mayo we'd have a couple of All Irelands.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 181 - 15/02/2020 18:25:22    2267857

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Do Murphy and Connolly consistently put up big scores from play? They're 2 quality players and I'm not knocking them, but Cillian has hit a hat trick in an all Ireland quarter final before. If David Clifford did that this year we'd have a media love in for two weeks!

It's easy to say if we had another quality forward we'd win an All Ireland. You could also say if Stephen Cluxton was from Mayo we'd have a couple of All Irelands."
I'm not talking about what he's done or hasnt done. I'm talking about natural ability. Diurmuid Connolly is probably the most skillful player in Ireland but he's not the best player due to his discipline and temperament. Don't talk about hat tricks or anything. Of cillian o Conor and Connolly or mc manus went into a skills contest cillian would not lay a finger on them.

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 166 - 15/02/2020 18:55:01    2267860

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