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NFL Division 1

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "Absolutely agreed on both. Ó Beoláin's tackle was much more dangerous than Gleeson's.
Mogan should also have received a sanction for his dangerous hit on McDaid, who ended up with concussion."
What did Mogan do was at the game but didn't see Mogan do anything. He's a very slight small lad Mogan .

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 742 - 11/02/2020 17:11:30    2267101

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Replying To rorysboys:  "What did Mogan do was at the game but didn't see Mogan do anything. He's a very slight small lad Mogan ."
He shouldered McDaid into the back as he was playing the ball. McDaid fell heavily and hit his head off the ground. He was subbed off with concussion. Mogan was also subbed straight away at the time, for a different reason.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 656 - 11/02/2020 17:35:13    2267107

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "He shouldered McDaid into the back as he was playing the ball. McDaid fell heavily and hit his head off the ground. He was subbed off with concussion. Mogan was also subbed straight away at the time, for a different reason."
Was the different reason 'let's get him off the pitch before he picks up a black card for a cynical foul'?

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 2819 - 11/02/2020 18:08:45    2267112

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "He shouldered McDaid into the back as he was playing the ball. McDaid fell heavily and hit his head off the ground. He was subbed off with concussion. Mogan was also subbed straight away at the time, for a different reason."
I thought the tackle was ok, lad fell awkwardly and head hit the ground

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4248 - 11/02/2020 18:55:06    2267128

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Replying To moylagh:  "Only thing for certain is Meath won't be in Div 1 in a few weeks time. Only 1 forward who seems to know where the posts are. Kerry C team will probably beat us the next day out.
From what I saw yesterday, Mayo will have difficulty stayin up as well, very few scoring forwards.
All in all, for all the huff and puff there were 2 poor teams on display."
We had 5 scoring forwards against Meath, how many is needed? Still without the likes of CO'C, Doherty, Darren Coen and others.

I always wonder why everyone brings up Mayo's lack of forwards, yet ignore the fact we conceded 2 goals (lucky it wasn't 3) to the weakest side in the division.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 181 - 11/02/2020 19:39:07    2267137

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Galway attacking and Morgan elbowed McDaid in the back and the latter banged his head on the turf. McDaid was badly injured and left the action. No card given. Donegal substituted Morgan rapidly. No black card. Commentator Cassidy said it was a great foul by Donegal to concede. RTE highlights edited it out completely. Unreal.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1332 - 11/02/2020 20:48:52    2267156

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Replying To Soma:  "The 2nd one is not a goal, if you are in possession of the ball then you can't score a goal with your hands unless playing it on the ground. Even when you bounce a ball you are considered to be in possession.
For the first one I don't know, there are referees on here who know better than me. I'd say if he intentionally flicked it over an opponents head then he should let it bounce before gathering it again."
I think the second one is a goal.

The question depends on when exactly does a player gain or lose possession. Consider the two cases:

(a) The player hops the ball and does not catch it (or play it) again.
(b) The player hops the ball and catches it again.

In (a) clearly the player loses possession at the moment the ball leaves his hands.
In (b) the player loses possession the moment the ball left his hands and regains possession when he catches it again.

You hardly say that in (b) he had possession all the time just because he caught it again. You can't say 'if he doesn't catch it again he lost possession but if he catches it again he never lost possession'. You can't have it both ways.

So, I think if you hop the ball and do not catch it again you have lost possession and may play the ball with the hand into the net.

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 169 - 11/02/2020 20:50:58    2267157

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "Galway attacking and Morgan elbowed McDaid in the back and the latter banged his head on the turf. McDaid was badly injured and left the action. No card given. Donegal substituted Morgan rapidly. No black card. Commentator Cassidy said it was a great foul by Donegal to concede. RTE highlights edited it out completely. Unreal."
I would say that if it were a big game, they would keep stuff like that in for the ratings and the view count. Nothing like a bit of controversy to keep people glued to the phones and the tvs.

Maybe if we meet again in Croke park later in summer, we will have better talking points.

I don't like Letterkenny at all as a venue for us. We are not going to win there anytime soon.
Sometimes it would be best to go to another ground, even if it meant going to Ballyshannon. It would be a better venue for most other teams from the republic as well, defo for Galway, 70 minutes less travel.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3744 - 11/02/2020 21:15:35    2267162

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Replying To Donegalman:  "I would say that if it were a big game, they would keep stuff like that in for the ratings and the view count. Nothing like a bit of controversy to keep people glued to the phones and the tvs.

Maybe if we meet again in Croke park later in summer, we will have better talking points.

I don't like Letterkenny at all as a venue for us. We are not going to win there anytime soon.
Sometimes it would be best to go to another ground, even if it meant going to Ballyshannon. It would be a better venue for most other teams from the republic as well, defo for Galway, 70 minutes less travel."
yes, true. Best of luck with the rest of campaign

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1332 - 11/02/2020 21:24:32    2267165

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Replying To Aibrean:  "I think the second one is a goal.

The question depends on when exactly does a player gain or lose possession. Consider the two cases:

(a) The player hops the ball and does not catch it (or play it) again.
(b) The player hops the ball and catches it again.

In (a) clearly the player loses possession at the moment the ball leaves his hands.
In (b) the player loses possession the moment the ball left his hands and regains possession when he catches it again.

You hardly say that in (b) he had possession all the time just because he caught it again. You can't say 'if he doesn't catch it again he lost possession but if he catches it again he never lost possession'. You can't have it both ways.

So, I think if you hop the ball and do not catch it again you have lost possession and may play the ball with the hand into the net."
No if you are hopping the ball you continue to be in possession of it. Otherwise every time you try to bounce the ball it should be a free against you as it would be a throw (ball held in the hands played away without a definite striking action)

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2348 - 11/02/2020 21:32:12    2267168

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "Galway attacking and Morgan elbowed McDaid in the back and the latter banged his head on the turf. McDaid was badly injured and left the action. No card given. Donegal substituted Morgan rapidly. No black card. Commentator Cassidy said it was a great foul by Donegal to concede. RTE highlights edited it out completely. Unreal."
Why would he have got a black card for that foul? Its in about 6 years now and people still seem to think a black card is for any foul that falls somewhere between a yellow and red card.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2348 - 11/02/2020 21:36:26    2267169

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Replying To arock:  "I thought the tackle was ok, lad fell awkwardly and head hit the ground"
A shoulder into the back of someone who's playing the ball isn't a tackle. Doing it with a lot of force can be dangerous as the other player is off balance and has no sense of the hit coming, in order to brace himself.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 656 - 11/02/2020 23:31:43    2267191

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Replying To Soma:  "
Replying To Aibrean:  "I think the second one is a goal.

The question depends on when exactly does a player gain or lose possession. Consider the two cases:

(a) The player hops the ball and does not catch it (or play it) again.
(b) The player hops the ball and catches it again.

In (a) clearly the player loses possession at the moment the ball leaves his hands.
In (b) the player loses possession the moment the ball left his hands and regains possession when he catches it again.

You hardly say that in (b) he had possession all the time just because he caught it again. You can't say 'if he doesn't catch it again he lost possession but if he catches it again he never lost possession'. You can't have it both ways.

So, I think if you hop the ball and do not catch it again you have lost possession and may play the ball with the hand into the net."
No if you are hopping the ball you continue to be in possession of it. Otherwise every time you try to bounce the ball it should be a free against you as it would be a throw (ball held in the hands played away without a definite striking action)"
Simple question. If you hop the ball and it bounces awkwardly and you can't catch it (or someone else catches it) at what point exactly do you lose possession?

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 169 - 11/02/2020 23:54:45    2267196

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Replying To MayoDan:  "We had 5 scoring forwards against Meath, how many is needed? Still without the likes of CO'C, Doherty, Darren Coen and others.

I always wonder why everyone brings up Mayo's lack of forwards, yet ignore the fact we conceded 2 goals (lucky it wasn't 3) to the weakest side in the division."
I would say that especially in the bigger championship games it's the amount of wides and some terrible ones that have been the difference over the years in winning big games..

Galwaymaster9 (Galway) - Posts: 151 - 12/02/2020 08:23:01    2267203

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Replying To Aibrean:  "
Replying To Soma:  "[quote=Aibrean:  "I think the second one is a goal.

The question depends on when exactly does a player gain or lose possession. Consider the two cases:

(a) The player hops the ball and does not catch it (or play it) again.
(b) The player hops the ball and catches it again.

In (a) clearly the player loses possession at the moment the ball leaves his hands.
In (b) the player loses possession the moment the ball left his hands and regains possession when he catches it again.

You hardly say that in (b) he had possession all the time just because he caught it again. You can't say 'if he doesn't catch it again he lost possession but if he catches it again he never lost possession'. You can't have it both ways.

So, I think if you hop the ball and do not catch it again you have lost possession and may play the ball with the hand into the net."
No if you are hopping the ball you continue to be in possession of it. Otherwise every time you try to bounce the ball it should be a free against you as it would be a throw (ball held in the hands played away without a definite striking action)"
Simple question. If you hop the ball and it bounces awkwardly and you can't catch it (or someone else catches it) at what point exactly do you lose possession?"]When someone else plays it. You are confusing holding the ball and being in possession of the ball. If you are holding the ball you are always in possession of it, but you can be in possession of the ball and not always holding it.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2348 - 12/02/2020 09:56:54    2267219

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Replying To Soma:  "Why would he have got a black card for that foul? Its in about 6 years now and people still seem to think a black card is for any foul that falls somewhere between a yellow and red card."
I agree that we are often guessing at what colour the card will be. A player advancing at speed taken down from the back without any effort to put in a legit tackle? McDaid left the field injured. There was no card given of any colour. That would ref. soma give for this foul?

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1332 - 12/02/2020 10:42:28    2267239

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Replying To Galwaymaster9:  "I would say that especially in the bigger championship games it's the amount of wides and some terrible ones that have been the difference over the years in winning big games.."
Well you can say that about nearly every team that loses a big championship game. Armagh, Galway and and Donegal could have beaten Mayo last summer but for wides and a missed penalty in Galway's case.

Kerry could have beaten Dublin in the drawn game but missed a penalty and kicked far more wides than the dubs over the 2 games. Even going back to the Dublin v Galway semi-final in 2018, Galway were completely on top in the 1st half but missed numerous chances (including a penalty) and ended up behind at half time.

Yet nobody questions the Kerry and Galway forwards.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 181 - 12/02/2020 11:00:06    2267244

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Replying To MayoDan:  "We had 5 scoring forwards against Meath, how many is needed? Still without the likes of CO'C, Doherty, Darren Coen and others.

I always wonder why everyone brings up Mayo's lack of forwards, yet ignore the fact we conceded 2 goals (lucky it wasn't 3) to the weakest side in the division."
Wasn't havin a pop at Mayo's lack of scorers or otherwise, merely commenting on what was on front of me last Sunday which was pretty atrocious from both sides. Our own forwards are way worse than Mayo's at the moment, think we have had 1 scoring forward in each of the last 2 games from open play, so you don't have to be EInstein to wonder why we're bottom of the table.
In Mayo's case, the only scorer in the 2nd half was a sub (McLoughlin), playin against a gale so chances were limited, but still and all.
Mayo have the capability to do much better in this department, the win should give them a bit of confidence to play with a bit more freedom, but only time will tell.
I would actually fear for some of the Meath players who are playing with absolutely no confidence and have to visit Kerry, Dublin and Monaghan. You would have to say on the evidence so far that it will result in at least 2 severe spankings, possibly 3 if Dublin get their act together .

moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 455 - 12/02/2020 11:12:42    2267247

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Replying To Soma:  "
Replying To Aibrean:  "[quote=Soma:  "[quote=Aibrean:  "I think the second one is a goal.

The question depends on when exactly does a player gain or lose possession. Consider the two cases:

(a) The player hops the ball and does not catch it (or play it) again.
(b) The player hops the ball and catches it again.

In (a) clearly the player loses possession at the moment the ball leaves his hands.
In (b) the player loses possession the moment the ball left his hands and regains possession when he catches it again.

You hardly say that in (b) he had possession all the time just because he caught it again. You can't say 'if he doesn't catch it again he lost possession but if he catches it again he never lost possession'. You can't have it both ways.

So, I think if you hop the ball and do not catch it again you have lost possession and may play the ball with the hand into the net."
No if you are hopping the ball you continue to be in possession of it. Otherwise every time you try to bounce the ball it should be a free against you as it would be a throw (ball held in the hands played away without a definite striking action)"
Simple question. If you hop the ball and it bounces awkwardly and you can't catch it (or someone else catches it) at what point exactly do you lose possession?"]When someone else plays it. You are confusing holding the ball and being in possession of the ball. If you are holding the ball you are always in possession of it, but you can be in possession of the ball and not always holding it."]When someone else plays it??
So, a player could still be in possession of the ball even though it's 2 or 3 metres away ? That makes no sense. And you could shoulder such a player even though the ball is 2 or 3 metres away?

Also, I'm certain of this. If a player hops the ball once, catches it, hops it again but does not catch it again, he does NOT commit a foul. The explanation is that he did not complete two bounces as a bounce is only completed when the player catches the ball. This is in accordance with the definition of a hop/bounce:
For a player who has caught the ball to play the ball against the ground with his hand(s) and to catch it on return to his hand(s) again.
It's clear in this case that the player loses possession the moment the ball leaves the player's hands.
Accordingly, the player is NOT 'deemed to be in possession of the ball' unless he catches it again and is free to punch or kick it away - even into the net.

And, consider this. When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.
Can this ball be punched into the net? Of, course it can.

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 169 - 12/02/2020 12:02:13    2267260

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Replying To moylagh:  "Wasn't havin a pop at Mayo's lack of scorers or otherwise, merely commenting on what was on front of me last Sunday which was pretty atrocious from both sides. Our own forwards are way worse than Mayo's at the moment, think we have had 1 scoring forward in each of the last 2 games from open play, so you don't have to be EInstein to wonder why we're bottom of the table.
In Mayo's case, the only scorer in the 2nd half was a sub (McLoughlin), playin against a gale so chances were limited, but still and all.
Mayo have the capability to do much better in this department, the win should give them a bit of confidence to play with a bit more freedom, but only time will tell.
I would actually fear for some of the Meath players who are playing with absolutely no confidence and have to visit Kerry, Dublin and Monaghan. You would have to say on the evidence so far that it will result in at least 2 severe spankings, possibly 3 if Dublin get their act together ."
I wouldn't be overly critical and judge a team in February....let alone in a gale.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10027 - 12/02/2020 12:04:43    2267261

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