National Forum

Will Offensive Mark Favour Some Counties

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Replying To Jamesc015:  "Hi all, can anyone confirm whether the offensive mark is on a permanent basis or is it likely to be scrapped for next year? I'm completely put off by the idea like a vast majority I think. Also, is it likely to be introduced into the club game? If not, I fear the gap between club and county may grow as far as being like two separate sports. Apologies if these questions appear stupid but there doesn't appear to be much information being provided."
It's in at every level of football, it got 68% of the vote at Congress last year. How long it lasts is anyone's guess, it would need a new motion brought forward at Congress and passed to get rid of it. From what I have seen it puts too much additional work on a referee. Also when playing in near the goal it can be difficult for the catcher to tell if the player kicking the ball is 1 metre outside the 45 or 1 metre inside it so it creates too much confusion.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2379 - 15/01/2020 13:04:19    2259965

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From my own county I can see it suiting lads like Cillian O Connor and Darren Coen, both can win ball but dont have the speed to get away from markers after collecting the ball, but both are very accurate so if they get the right ball into them, then they could do very well from the mark.
its the kick pass that will be important, usually kicking into the forwards you be told to put out in front of the, let them run onto it but now to use the mark its more hitting the player, think the diagonal pass will be the most effective.

tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 389 - 15/01/2020 13:16:16    2259971

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Replying To arock:  "It is a shocking dumb idea, imagine given a "free" score because someone can catch a ball? Idiotic, the game was dying anyway, this will kill it off."
The first part of this post pretty much sums up this new dumb rule. I dont agree that the game is dying, a few tweeks here and there is all it needs.

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 303 - 15/01/2020 15:05:17    2260011

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Replying To cluichethar:  "The first part of this post pretty much sums up this new dumb rule. I dont agree that the game is dying, a few tweeks here and there is all it needs."
Whoever says the game is dying needs there head checked. In Monaghan its alive and well even after a disaster last year and not to many holding high hopes for the year ahead. But still role on the league and championship. Stop messing with the rules. Teams tactics will change for time to time but the game always keeps me entertained. If you look at the all Ireland final from 15 years ago 10 and 5 Years ago and then last years iv no doubt the game just gets better every time.

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 160 - 15/01/2020 19:20:50    2260068

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Quick question, sorry if this has been answered already. Will the advanced mark be used in underage club football? I had heard it would be only used from u12's upwards but can't find anything to confirm this.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1618 - 13/02/2020 11:25:28    2267480

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Unfortunately I tend to agree with you on this. It serves zero purpose."
What was the point of it supposed to be ?

How does it enhance the game ?

Surely someone must have had some reason for it .....

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 294 - 13/02/2020 12:02:27    2267492

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"Can you show me a metre"..........

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 988 - 14/02/2020 02:21:35    2267602

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "What was the point of it supposed to be ?

How does it enhance the game ?

Surely someone must have had some reason for it ....."
Indeed, someone did have some reason for it, and it's easily found with a little Google Fu;

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I've taken the trouble to reproduce 'the reason for it' put forward to and approved by congress last year (don't shoot the messenger);

The Advanced Mark Rationale

AIM: To offer an incentive for the longer kicking of the ball into the oppositions defensive area and reward players who catch the ball cleanly under these circumstances with a MArk.

Supporting Evidence & Rationale:
During its trialling in the Allianz National Football Leagues 2019, this experimental rule provided for a 25% increase in the number of kick passes in the game (2019 NFL vs 2018 C'ship) - 132 vs 107 and, furthermore, it resulted in an increase in the number of contested foot passes (6%)

It provided for the first reduction in the ratio of hand passing to foot passing in ten seasons (3.5:1 in the 2018 C'ship to 2.9:1 NFL 2019), meaning teams were inclined to kick the ball more and hand pass it less than had been the case for at least the last decade.


(any typos are mine)

TearsIn85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 92 - 14/02/2020 10:53:06    2267630

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Replying To TearsIn85:  "Indeed, someone did have some reason for it, and it's easily found with a little Google Fu;

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I've taken the trouble to reproduce 'the reason for it' put forward to and approved by congress last year (don't shoot the messenger);

The Advanced Mark Rationale

AIM: To offer an incentive for the longer kicking of the ball into the oppositions defensive area and reward players who catch the ball cleanly under these circumstances with a MArk.

Supporting Evidence & Rationale:
During its trialling in the Allianz National Football Leagues 2019, this experimental rule provided for a 25% increase in the number of kick passes in the game (2019 NFL vs 2018 C'ship) - 132 vs 107 and, furthermore, it resulted in an increase in the number of contested foot passes (6%)

It provided for the first reduction in the ratio of hand passing to foot passing in ten seasons (3.5:1 in the 2018 C'ship to 2.9:1 NFL 2019), meaning teams were inclined to kick the ball more and hand pass it less than had been the case for at least the last decade.


(any typos are mine)"
A bit silly by congress (or whoever put forward the above to congress) to compare Championship to NFL and use this as a rationale for change. Championship generally i) is played in better weather, ii) the teams are stronger in terms of calibre of personnel, iii) the teams are fitter, iv) the teams don't tend to experiment as much with tactics etc. and v) there is more at stake so teams may well be slightly more conservative in approach. So they're really comparing apples with oranges in this rationale. Why didn't they compare NFL 2019 with NFL 2018 (and 2017 / 2016 / 2015 etc. to get a sample size that could reasonably be considered worthy of argument as opposed to just one year, which could always be an outlier)? At least that'd be comparing apples with apples. It boggles the mind that no one challenged this rationale at congress but, I suppose, when you consider the personnel involved...

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 530 - 14/02/2020 15:10:27    2267694

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Replying To TearsIn85:  "Indeed, someone did have some reason for it, and it's easily found with a little Google Fu;

link

I've taken the trouble to reproduce 'the reason for it' put forward to and approved by congress last year (don't shoot the messenger);

The Advanced Mark Rationale

AIM: To offer an incentive for the longer kicking of the ball into the oppositions defensive area and reward players who catch the ball cleanly under these circumstances with a MArk.

Supporting Evidence & Rationale:
During its trialling in the Allianz National Football Leagues 2019, this experimental rule provided for a 25% increase in the number of kick passes in the game (2019 NFL vs 2018 C'ship) - 132 vs 107 and, furthermore, it resulted in an increase in the number of contested foot passes (6%)

It provided for the first reduction in the ratio of hand passing to foot passing in ten seasons (3.5:1 in the 2018 C'ship to 2.9:1 NFL 2019), meaning teams were inclined to kick the ball more and hand pass it less than had been the case for at least the last decade.


(any typos are mine)"
Thanks for that - it's genuinely appreciated.

OK - kick pass good, hand pass bad, I can see that, even if I don't necessarily accept it. But the advanced mark just makes the game stop start. It's not - in my humble opinion - an improvement. Time will tell whether it increases the kick pass/hand pass ratio and - more importantly, if it does, whether folk think the game's improved because of it.

Having said that, I am prepared to give it a fair go. Coaches take time to fit their tactics to new rules and the three weeks we've had isn't enough to form a considered opinion.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 294 - 14/02/2020 18:17:14    2267728

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