National Forum

Ulster Championship Draw

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CAVAN must feel hard done by having to go through the prelims yet again.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3744 - 09/10/2019 11:05:21    2242285

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Never fails to disappoint. It will be a long way back for the loser of Donegal and Tyrone

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 896 - 09/10/2019 11:18:59    2242291

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Replying To jacktheDub:  "Never fails to disappoint. It will be a long way back for the loser of Donegal and Tyrone"
I think you are right.

The last team to win the All Ireland through the back door was Kerry in 2009. That's 10 seasons. You could argue that teams are not as up to the big 2 as a reason, but I would say look to the record of back door teams even making the final.
Down in 2010, Mayo in 2017, Tyrone in 2018. Compare that with Galway, Armagh (2003), Tyrone (2005 and 2008), Kerry in 2006, 2008 and 2009).

For some reason, the attrition of a longer season in this decade does not bode well for a back door team making the finals never mind winning them.

You could further stretch the point to say that if you go into the back door in the early stages of the provincials, then you have even less a chance of making it.

Basically, tyrone or donegal will have to win this game to have a good summer. Likewise Cavan and Monaghan. Or any other team out there you care to mention in the early rounds.

Cavan have a good chance against Monaghan again, if they build on what they achieved. They will most likely need to stay up in division one.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3744 - 09/10/2019 11:40:58    2242297

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Donegal away is the worst possible draw for Tyrone. But if we can get our act together and win that, our summer would really start to look up. Another trek through the qualifiers doesn't appeal. I feel we were lucky to reach the semis last year and did so by virtue of squeezing past Roscommon and Cork. It's been a long time since we beat a team better than us in Championship action.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 218 - 09/10/2019 12:02:21    2242312

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A lot of glamour ties in the draw per usual which is brilliant to see. Realistically it all depends on how the league goes and what momentum teams get. Monaghan stay in division 1 and have a decent league and Cavan fail to get promoted then your looking at a complete swing of momentum. Same with donegal and Tyrone too.
Every game is even odds in my opinion.

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 182 - 09/10/2019 12:05:37    2242314

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Should be an easy path for ourselves to the Final - happy days......

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3968 - 09/10/2019 12:08:17    2242316

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Replying To jacktheDub:  "Never fails to disappoint. It will be a long way back for the loser of Donegal and Tyrone"
Not necessarily, I think I'm right in saying that if the Tier 2 proposals get accepted at Congress that there will only be 2 qualifier rounds next year instead of the usual 4 (2 rounds in each of the 2 tiers), so it would be no more games than playing the Ulster semi-final and final to make the Super 8s. It could even arguably be an easier route to the Super 8s than going through Ulster depending on the qualifier draw.

KevMcG (Donegal) - Posts: 8 - 09/10/2019 12:15:38    2242319

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "Should be an easy path for ourselves to the Final - happy days......"
At least you don't have to worry about having a home draw next year.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 218 - 09/10/2019 12:17:09    2242320

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The Ulster championship is the only really competitive provincial left, Donegal and Tyrone will have be at full tilt for this game in May whilst the likes of Kerry and Dublin can coast through to the super 8's and not have a serious game until August, that's why the whole set up has to change, not to mention the Dubs playing every big game at home, (among all the other advantages they have) if we had every big game in Ballybofey it would be some advantage not mention easier for the supporters,
this is a must win game for ourselves and Tyrone, none of us want the drudgery of the qualifiers.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 821 - 09/10/2019 12:43:37    2242325

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Replying To OGarmaile:  "At least you don't have to worry about having a home draw next year."
May never be a worry again OGarmaile

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3968 - 09/10/2019 13:44:23    2242345

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Replying To Donegalman:  "I think you are right.

The last team to win the All Ireland through the back door was Kerry in 2009. That's 10 seasons. You could argue that teams are not as up to the big 2 as a reason, but I would say look to the record of back door teams even making the final.
Down in 2010, Mayo in 2017, Tyrone in 2018. Compare that with Galway, Armagh (2003), Tyrone (2005 and 2008), Kerry in 2006, 2008 and 2009).

For some reason, the attrition of a longer season in this decade does not bode well for a back door team making the finals never mind winning them.

You could further stretch the point to say that if you go into the back door in the early stages of the provincials, then you have even less a chance of making it.

Basically, tyrone or donegal will have to win this game to have a good summer. Likewise Cavan and Monaghan. Or any other team out there you care to mention in the early rounds.

Cavan have a good chance against Monaghan again, if they build on what they achieved. They will most likely need to stay up in division one."
Cork won the All-Ireland through the back door in 2010.

All four semi finalists that year can't through the back door.

Your general point still stands though.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12991 - 09/10/2019 13:58:46    2242349

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Think it is a good draw for monaghan and Cavan as both of us will fancy beating the other and progressing to the final. That said we could easily lose to the other three also.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1447 - 09/10/2019 14:02:51    2242352

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Donegal blessed again to get the home draw. Very rarely drawn away in the last 20 years.

Happy enough with the draw. Better playing Tyrone early and at home rather than in a final. Whichever way it goes, plenty of time to recover. I think this game is quarter final 1, so will be second weekend in May. will be a few weeks before the qualifiers start for the loser

himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 230 - 09/10/2019 14:23:40    2242365

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Replying To himachechy:  "Donegal blessed again to get the home draw. Very rarely drawn away in the last 20 years.

Happy enough with the draw. Better playing Tyrone early and at home rather than in a final. Whichever way it goes, plenty of time to recover. I think this game is quarter final 1, so will be second weekend in May. will be a few weeks before the qualifiers start for the loser"
I was planning a few days away in May, better check that the dates don't clash, don't want to miss this one.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 821 - 09/10/2019 15:11:30    2242380

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Cork won the All-Ireland through the back door in 2010.

All four semi finalists that year can't through the back door.

Your general point still stands though."
Wow, I didn't know that! Just looked at their results that year. That kind of puts things in a differing light, although 2010 is closer in zeitgeist to the 00s than the teens.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3744 - 09/10/2019 15:25:54    2242383

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weren't the GAA lucky to get two meaningful local Derbys on the last day!!!! happy with the draw though apart from the preliminary, I suspect Monaghan will be thinking the same, as a Monaghan poster said above theres a lot to happen yet that will determine momentum before championship. from our point of view, another Ulster final appearance from the preliminary round and promotion would be seen as very good progress.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 390 - 09/10/2019 15:55:18    2242387

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Replying To himachechy:  "Donegal blessed again to get the home draw. Very rarely drawn away in the last 20 years.

Happy enough with the draw. Better playing Tyrone early and at home rather than in a final. Whichever way it goes, plenty of time to recover. I think this game is quarter final 1, so will be second weekend in May. will be a few weeks before the qualifiers start for the loser"
I was planning a few days away in May, better check that the dates don't clash, don't want to miss this one.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 821 - 09/10/2019 18:12:54    2242407

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "Should be an easy path for ourselves to the Final - happy days......"
See you in the Final lad!!!

kingpuck71 (Derry) - Posts: 673 - 09/10/2019 19:06:49    2242417

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "The Ulster championship is the only really competitive provincial left, Donegal and Tyrone will have be at full tilt for this game in May whilst the likes of Kerry and Dublin can coast through to the super 8's and not have a serious game until August, that's why the whole set up has to change, not to mention the Dubs playing every big game at home, (among all the other advantages they have) if we had every big game in Ballybofey it would be some advantage not mention easier for the supporters,
this is a must win game for ourselves and Tyrone, none of us want the drudgery of the qualifiers."
Ballybofey is like New York. If Tyrone can make it there ... it'll be a mighty battle. The Ulster championship is not to the Ulster teams' advantage, but it gives fans some unforgettable days out

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 705 - 09/10/2019 20:09:59    2242434

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Replying To himachechy:  "Donegal blessed again to get the home draw. Very rarely drawn away in the last 20 years.

Happy enough with the draw. Better playing Tyrone early and at home rather than in a final. Whichever way it goes, plenty of time to recover. I think this game is quarter final 1, so will be second weekend in May. will be a few weeks before the qualifiers start for the loser"
Yeah but don't forget 2011 2012 2015 2018 first round games were from the prelims so we had extra matches, home and away first round ties really. 2013, 2016, 2017 were home without prelims. 2014 we were away to Derry, so you could say we had 3 home games out of 8 years.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3744 - 09/10/2019 22:10:01    2242464

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