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Replying To Ben: "Disagree, Laois are miles better than they were five years ago. Actually I think it's a golden age with skill level also to see a team like Laois competitive in an All Ireland quarter final shows that we are living in a golden age. Limerick and Wexford provincial champions as well. More to hurling than the Munster teams. The current format is working fine in my opinion just because the "right teams" don't make the business end of the All Ireland. Laois would never make a quarter final under any other system. The aim for the powers that be is to get the likes of Laois , Offaly and Westmeath up to the next level. Only argument against the current format is that teams are gone by mid June. No team should be gone by July 8th . Start championship later insert weeks for club championship to keep clubs happy . Ie play club hurling championship the weeks that there is intercounty football weekends. Might spell the end of dual player but so be it." You really think this is golden age ?? How old u ??? Do u rember the Lohans Corcoran daly the sparrow dj tommy Walsh jj joe dean Carey Gardiner finerty Nicky English and I could keep naming great players and character that roll off your tongue......Yes there few great players around now but give this golden era nonsense a rest please
Hitnhurl (Cork) - Posts: 92 - 12/08/2019 10:08:16
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Replying To Hitnhurl: "Cork?????? What conversation u in lad" You were stating that players are clones because they all follow the same routine. I was pointing out that players want a professional set up and that's why Cork went on strike. Nothing got to do with being clones, it's a scientifically proven method of operating that top players want to be involved in. I'm just using examples to make a point rather than making stuff up! Don't hurt your brain trying to make sense of it.
Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 12/08/2019 12:05:54
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Replying To Ben: "Disagree, Laois are miles better than they were five years ago. Actually I think it's a golden age with skill level also to see a team like Laois competitive in an All Ireland quarter final shows that we are living in a golden age. Limerick and Wexford provincial champions as well. More to hurling than the Munster teams. The current format is working fine in my opinion just because the "right teams" don't make the business end of the All Ireland. Laois would never make a quarter final under any other system. The aim for the powers that be is to get the likes of Laois , Offaly and Westmeath up to the next level. Only argument against the current format is that teams are gone by mid June. No team should be gone by July 8th . Start championship later insert weeks for club championship to keep clubs happy . Ie play club hurling championship the weeks that there is intercounty football weekends. Might spell the end of dual player but so be it." I like most of your post but if you insert the Club matches you stand a good chance of injuries possibly ruining your counties chances of an All Ireland.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 12/08/2019 22:12:04
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After this year's hurling championship we'll have four counties sharing Liam McCarthy over the last five championships. Compare that with football where it will be one and two at most sharing Sam Maguire If Kerry can pull off a shock.
Limerick were the only one of last year's semi finalists to make the final four this year. Waterford were in the 2017 final. Wexford won Leinster for the first time in 23 years this year. Limerick and Galway closed big gaps without an All Ireland. All eight of the top 8 have played in at least one semi final between 2017 and 2019. Dublin made the semi finals in 2011 and 2013.
All Ireland hurling wins this decade:
Kilkenny 4/5
Tipp 2/3
Clare, Galway, Limerick 1 each
Football
Dublin 6/7
Kerry 1/2
Cork, Donegal 1 each
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 12/08/2019 23:32:56
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Replying To Killarney.87: "After this year's hurling championship we'll have four counties sharing Liam McCarthy over the last five championships. Compare that with football where it will be one and two at most sharing Sam Maguire If Kerry can pull off a shock.
Limerick were the only one of last year's semi finalists to make the final four this year. Waterford were in the 2017 final. Wexford won Leinster for the first time in 23 years this year. Limerick and Galway closed big gaps without an All Ireland. All eight of the top 8 have played in at least one semi final between 2017 and 2019. Dublin made the semi finals in 2011 and 2013.
All Ireland hurling wins this decade:
Kilkenny 4/5
Tipp 2/3
Clare, Galway, Limerick 1 each
Football
Dublin 6/7
Kerry 1/2
Cork, Donegal 1 each" I think the most surprising thing about the last 10 years or more is Corks dry spell.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 13/08/2019 22:52:21
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Replying To Killarney.87: "After this year's hurling championship we'll have four counties sharing Liam McCarthy over the last five championships. Compare that with football where it will be one and two at most sharing Sam Maguire If Kerry can pull off a shock.
Limerick were the only one of last year's semi finalists to make the final four this year. Waterford were in the 2017 final. Wexford won Leinster for the first time in 23 years this year. Limerick and Galway closed big gaps without an All Ireland. All eight of the top 8 have played in at least one semi final between 2017 and 2019. Dublin made the semi finals in 2011 and 2013.
All Ireland hurling wins this decade:
Kilkenny 4/5
Tipp 2/3
Clare, Galway, Limerick 1 each
Football
Dublin 6/7
Kerry 1/2
Cork, Donegal 1 each" Typo there lad. Wex won Leinster in 2004
bottletopbill (Wexford) - Posts: 71 - 13/08/2019 23:15:00
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Replying To Trump2020: "I think the most surprising thing about the last 10 years or more is Corks dry spell." Nothing surprising about that donal o Grady said live on tv 10 yrs ago that cork would not win again for a decade the old county board thought that will other counties advanced with their development squads cork county board thought that like years previous that cork players would just pop up like mushrooms overnight needless to say that didn't happen
But then with the new structures put in place and New ideas and manifesto drawn up by some forward thinking cork gaels we are beginning to see the fruits of the Labour both in football and hurling and id say watch this space over the next decade I think the sleeping beast is waking up and a cork county with its act together amount of clubs population resources and development officers will be a formidable foe
Hitnhurl (Cork) - Posts: 92 - 13/08/2019 23:19:17
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Replying To Trump2020: "I think the most surprising thing about the last 10 years or more is Corks dry spell." Yeah that's true, I don't think anyone saw that coming especially when the last Cork all Ireland winning team was so good.
They reference stuff like North Mon no longer being about. Midleton and Fermoy didn't feature in the Harry Cup for a long time too. UCC kept cork hurling going.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 14/08/2019 01:44:42
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How can it be a golden age when 2/3rds of the country are locked out from the main event. In those places, little or no effort is made to promote the game and 50% of the country hasn't even a hurling club in it?
For a sport that is supposedly more than a thousand years old, it hasn't even convinced a single country of 5m that it is worth playing, attending or watching on TV.
Kilkenny and Tipp couldn't even sell out the final between then. The GA have had to put tickets up on Ticketmaster to get rid of them.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 14/08/2019 06:40:23
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Replying To Hitnhurl: "Nothing surprising about that donal o Grady said live on tv 10 yrs ago that cork would not win again for a decade the old county board thought that will other counties advanced with their development squads cork county board thought that like years previous that cork players would just pop up like mushrooms overnight needless to say that didn't happen
But then with the new structures put in place and New ideas and manifesto drawn up by some forward thinking cork gaels we are beginning to see the fruits of the Labour both in football and hurling and id say watch this space over the next decade I think the sleeping beast is waking up and a cork county with its act together amount of clubs population resources and development officers will be a formidable foe" Growing up it was all Cork at every level. Hurlers on top of Hurlers. Tipp seems to have taken over the void left by Cork at all the different levels.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/08/2019 13:07:33
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Replying To Killarney.87: "Yeah that's true, I don't think anyone saw that coming especially when the last Cork all Ireland winning team was so good.
They reference stuff like North Mon no longer being about. Midleton and Fermoy didn't feature in the Harry Cup for a long time too. UCC kept cork hurling going." If you would have told me back in 2005 that Cork would go through such a dry spell I would have laughed at you. Amazing.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 14/08/2019 13:09:54
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "How can it be a golden age when 2/3rds of the country are locked out from the main event. In those places, little or no effort is made to promote the game and 50% of the country hasn't even a hurling club in it?
For a sport that is supposedly more than a thousand years old, it hasn't even convinced a single country of 5m that it is worth playing, attending or watching on TV.
Kilkenny and Tipp couldn't even sell out the final between then. The GA have had to put tickets up on Ticketmaster to get rid of them." No is stopping Mayo people from playing hurling if ye gave it a good lash and proper support ye might do alright and maybe win something like your neighbours in Sligo.
And if the final isnt a sell out so be it not every county has the numbers and sure it means all those poor sours who were locked out can catch a game
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 14/08/2019 13:38:28
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "How can it be a golden age when 2/3rds of the country are locked out from the main event. In those places, little or no effort is made to promote the game and 50% of the country hasn't even a hurling club in it?
For a sport that is supposedly more than a thousand years old, it hasn't even convinced a single country of 5m that it is worth playing, attending or watching on TV.
Kilkenny and Tipp couldn't even sell out the final between then. The GA have had to put tickets up on Ticketmaster to get rid of them." would 'nt want to give Cillian O Connor a hurley anyway
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 14/08/2019 13:55:55
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On balance I say no it is not.
There are two things I don't like about modern hurling: (1) in order to play at the top level it is an advantage if you go to college. (2) Players are retiring earlier and are putting off real life in order to play the game. (3) the club hurler who is not county standard faces a difficult year of planning each year. If your county does well, games are postponed. Fine for the county player. But for the club player there may be partners who want to plan holidays, work arrangements to be made.
With regard to College if you look at the Limerick v Clare teams from the 1996 championship game, many were tradesmen. Would that be possible these days? Instead there is a carrot dangled that if you go to college you get greater exposure. That's great but it is also more games and has pushed club hurling firmly into third place behind intercounty and colleges.
John Mullane was a real character of the game yet retired at 31. He was some hurler to watch in full flow. Since Clare brought hurling fitness levels forward in 1995 we have seen a steady incline in the age at which players retire.
Many players now reach 30 and give up intercounty hurling. It is a pity because these lads offer so much to the game and end up in the media because it pays well. They play club hurling but the same exposure doesn't exist at that level.
At MacCarthy cup level if you want to win you need a professional setup. This means many counties may be reluctant to join that elite group. While the modem game is superb with coaching and skill, it has in many ways driven a wedge between the big nine and the rest.
If things keep going as they are we may see county hurling separate from club hurling. It would be a shame but the demands on county lads are at an all time high. How can the club hurler be better accommodated?
I don't think these issues were prevalent in the 1994-98 era where six different sides contested the All-Ireland final and Offaly, Wexford and Clare added to their titles. Perhaps that was more of a golden era.
Just my 2C .......
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/08/2019 13:19:09
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Replying To slayer: "On balance I say no it is not.
There are two things I don't like about modern hurling: (1) in order to play at the top level it is an advantage if you go to college. (2) Players are retiring earlier and are putting off real life in order to play the game. (3) the club hurler who is not county standard faces a difficult year of planning each year. If your county does well, games are postponed. Fine for the county player. But for the club player there may be partners who want to plan holidays, work arrangements to be made.
With regard to College if you look at the Limerick v Clare teams from the 1996 championship game, many were tradesmen. Would that be possible these days? Instead there is a carrot dangled that if you go to college you get greater exposure. That's great but it is also more games and has pushed club hurling firmly into third place behind intercounty and colleges.
John Mullane was a real character of the game yet retired at 31. He was some hurler to watch in full flow. Since Clare brought hurling fitness levels forward in 1995 we have seen a steady incline in the age at which players retire.
Many players now reach 30 and give up intercounty hurling. It is a pity because these lads offer so much to the game and end up in the media because it pays well. They play club hurling but the same exposure doesn't exist at that level.
At MacCarthy cup level if you want to win you need a professional setup. This means many counties may be reluctant to join that elite group. While the modem game is superb with coaching and skill, it has in many ways driven a wedge between the big nine and the rest.
If things keep going as they are we may see county hurling separate from club hurling. It would be a shame but the demands on county lads are at an all time high. How can the club hurler be better accommodated?
I don't think these issues were prevalent in the 1994-98 era where six different sides contested the All-Ireland final and Offaly, Wexford and Clare added to their titles. Perhaps that was more of a golden era.
Just my 2C ......." Interesting post but what has college to do with it? I mean if Joe Canning for example didn't go to college he'd still be seen when Portumna was hammering other teams in the County. Whoever was managing Galway at the time (I think Ger Loughnane) would be pure blind not to see him and pure dumb not to use him. Did I miss your point?
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 15/08/2019 22:14:34
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Replying To Trump2020: "Interesting post but what has college to do with it? I mean if Joe Canning for example didn't go to college he'd still be seen when Portumna was hammering other teams in the County. Whoever was managing Galway at the time (I think Ger Loughnane) would be pure blind not to see him and pure dumb not to use him. Did I miss your point?" Canning was and is a once in a generation player though.
You can't take him as a barometer for the club player with hopes of playing inter County. Point is I think, that to make it now, college gives you a profile that wasn't needed 20 yrs ago.
skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1062 - 15/08/2019 23:04:46
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Replying To slayer: "On balance I say no it is not.
There are two things I don't like about modern hurling: (1) in order to play at the top level it is an advantage if you go to college. (2) Players are retiring earlier and are putting off real life in order to play the game. (3) the club hurler who is not county standard faces a difficult year of planning each year. If your county does well, games are postponed. Fine for the county player. But for the club player there may be partners who want to plan holidays, work arrangements to be made.
With regard to College if you look at the Limerick v Clare teams from the 1996 championship game, many were tradesmen. Would that be possible these days? Instead there is a carrot dangled that if you go to college you get greater exposure. That's great but it is also more games and has pushed club hurling firmly into third place behind intercounty and colleges.
John Mullane was a real character of the game yet retired at 31. He was some hurler to watch in full flow. Since Clare brought hurling fitness levels forward in 1995 we have seen a steady incline in the age at which players retire.
Many players now reach 30 and give up intercounty hurling. It is a pity because these lads offer so much to the game and end up in the media because it pays well. They play club hurling but the same exposure doesn't exist at that level.
At MacCarthy cup level if you want to win you need a professional setup. This means many counties may be reluctant to join that elite group. While the modem game is superb with coaching and skill, it has in many ways driven a wedge between the big nine and the rest.
If things keep going as they are we may see county hurling separate from club hurling. It would be a shame but the demands on county lads are at an all time high. How can the club hurler be better accommodated?
I don't think these issues were prevalent in the 1994-98 era where six different sides contested the All-Ireland final and Offaly, Wexford and Clare added to their titles. Perhaps that was more of a golden era.
Just my 2C ......." To start I think that more top have been to college is down to changes in Ireland and not hurling but for the rest I agree.
I think sadly we are not far off seeing county championship games go ahead without IC players similar to how in rugby the 4 Irish teams play pro 14 games without international players.
Agree too about the pro level setup putting counties off as I think most outside of the big counties like Cork and Dublin (Galway being the exception who have done a great job competing at the top of hurling and fooball against the odds) only have the population/money for 1 code and need to choose which is why I think Offaly and Antrim are having such a hard time adjusting and will probably eventually cut 1 code loose and I think sadly for Wexford football people the process has already begun there.
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 16/08/2019 01:08:44
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "How can it be a golden age when 2/3rds of the country are locked out from the main event. In those places, little or no effort is made to promote the game and 50% of the country hasn't even a hurling club in it?
For a sport that is supposedly more than a thousand years old, it hasn't even convinced a single country of 5m that it is worth playing, attending or watching on TV.
Kilkenny and Tipp couldn't even sell out the final between then. The GA have had to put tickets up on Ticketmaster to get rid of them." A lot of disingenuous arguments in your post. Between them, KK and Tipp have populations of circa 160k, you'd need 1 out of every 3 men, women and children in each county to go in order to fill Croke Park. Neutral fans would have always made up the shortfall in Kk-Tipp finals, the fact that this is the 6th time the same counties have met in the final this past decade is bound to have tapered interest in attending for all but the most hardcore neutral hurling fans. Had it been a Limerick-Wexford final, tickets would have been like gold dust.
The TV argument is wrong, the all Ireland hurling final, and other big hurling games in the summer, are frequently among the most-watched sporting events of the year. Armchair sports fans who probably have not the slightest intention of ever playing or coaching hurling will still sit down on a Sunday afternoon to watch the All Ireland final because, unlike the football unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 it's guaranteed entertainment.
Also, 2/3 of counties may not be in the Liam McCarthy Cup, but the 10 counties that do compete comprise 3m people. The non-Liam McCarthy counties are, for the most part, the smaller and/or more sparsely populated counties of Connacht, Ulster and north Leinster (Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Longford, Westmeath, Offaly, Louth, Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh). That's 10 counties right there and I'd say between them their population would barely make up that of Cork where hurling is a religion.
Anyway, for all the counties that play football, only one can win the All Ireland! The way it's going, Dublin will win 16-18 of the next 20 All Irelands. It's going to be a problem. Tyrone and Kerry, two of the powerhouses of the game, could only pull in 34k for an all Ireland semi final, that really is awful.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 16/08/2019 06:00:02
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I would say the main point on the college debate is that the players have more available time to train and therefore are overtaking the fellas who go straight into a working environment.
I know when I was in college we trained at 7am and again at 5pm 3-4 times a week in the main season. We used our free time from classes to do gym work. You've a lot more free time whereas compared to a tradesman who is probably on site at 7am and does maybe 2-3 club sessions a week.
Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 16/08/2019 08:48:37
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Replying To Trump2020: "If you would have told me back in 2005 that Cork would go through such a dry spell I would have laughed at you. Amazing." There is one big factor in relation to Cork. For many years now Cork have been involved in building a huge pitch. I often think County Boards take their eye off the ball as regards Youth development when such huge Capital Investment Projects are been undertaken.
Also, much is made of smaller counties been out of the limelight for lengthy periods. However the bigger counties have their hiatuses as well. Cork from 1904 to 1919 and from 1954 to 1966 went without an All Ireland. Kilkenny won no All Ireland until 1904 (or was it 03) and won one All Ireland, in 47, luckily by single point, from 1939 to 1957. In fact their all Irelands in '35', '39, '47 and '57 were all won by a point. After that 47 victory they were beaten in three of the next four years by Laois. Tipperary, the Premier County. had eighteen years of a famine between 71 and 89. So it not that amazing that a side like Cork would have such a break. No doubt it will do them good and teach them to take themselves less seriously.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 16/08/2019 09:25:35
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