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It was a valid point Cusack made, he just made it stupidly with a bizarre analogy
His point was Irish culture as a whole is resistant to change or should I say was resistant to change and hes right, particularly in the GAA, I mean Jesus Christ you only have to listen to pat Spillanes rants about modern day football "paralysis by analysis" and infiltrated by "spoofers and bluffers" etc etc. that's only 6 years ago.
And again you watch any Sunday game analysis of hurling and I use the word "analysis" rather loosely it's the same, they haven't a clue, I mean there are still people analysing the game saying that Brian Cody doesn't do tactics and getting paid to actually spout this.
Now quite how he jumped from this reluctance to accept change being a throw back to the mentality we inherited from the British Empire im not sure to be honest.
He would have been far better served pointing out the evolution of the sweeper tactic for example in regards to what Wexford do compared to others where it is deployed for example to solely keep the score down.
He could have actually pointed to the evolution of soccer and tactics from the start up through to Brazil and their 4-2-4 approach, the dutch total football, tiki taka and the gegenpress as example. Again plenty of other sports where the games evolved through innovative used of tactics, basketball and rugby spring to mind.
Cusack had a valid point to make but made a balls of making it unfortunately and the points got completely lost due to his bizarre analogy
I dont think he was insulting anyone apart from those who analysis is poor beyond belief and basically takes the approach of tactics dont work and teams only win when the shackles are off
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1338 - 01/08/2019 10:55:26
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Replying To tearintom: "It was a valid point Cusack made, he just made it stupidly with a bizarre analogy
His point was Irish culture as a whole is resistant to change or should I say was resistant to change and hes right, particularly in the GAA, I mean Jesus Christ you only have to listen to pat Spillanes rants about modern day football "paralysis by analysis" and infiltrated by "spoofers and bluffers" etc etc. that's only 6 years ago.
And again you watch any Sunday game analysis of hurling and I use the word "analysis" rather loosely it's the same, they haven't a clue, I mean there are still people analysing the game saying that Brian Cody doesn't do tactics and getting paid to actually spout this.
Now quite how he jumped from this reluctance to accept change being a throw back to the mentality we inherited from the British Empire im not sure to be honest.
He would have been far better served pointing out the evolution of the sweeper tactic for example in regards to what Wexford do compared to others where it is deployed for example to solely keep the score down.
He could have actually pointed to the evolution of soccer and tactics from the start up through to Brazil and their 4-2-4 approach, the dutch total football, tiki taka and the gegenpress as example. Again plenty of other sports where the games evolved through innovative used of tactics, basketball and rugby spring to mind.
Cusack had a valid point to make but made a balls of making it unfortunately and the points got completely lost due to his bizarre analogy
I dont think he was insulting anyone apart from those who analysis is poor beyond belief and basically takes the approach of tactics dont work and teams only win when the shackles are off" Well said Tom . You forgot about the Magnificent Magyars when you were talking about innovative soccer teams . They beat England 6-3 at Wembley and 7-1 in Budapest in late 1953 and May 1954. Those games epitomise the point Donal Og made about the refusal of the English to recognise tactical innovation and their consequent failure to adapt to it .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/08/2019 11:13:56
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Replying To Greengrass: "Nah . What you have said is daft ." Your opinion. Have you read Cusack's bio? Have you read Brian Corcoran's? Sometimes a bit of background doesn't go astray before you right a one liner labelling another's opinion daft. I don't think you know where Cusack has come from 2006 to the present.
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 01/08/2019 11:20:11
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Replying To PaudieSull1: "Sounds like you have a serious inferiority complex, reading far too much into what he said.....unfortunate thing is that when he veered into the commentary about the influence of British culture of resistance to change in sport ( on the mindset of the Irish) , the point was lost.......
To suggest there was a dig at the 'irishness' of certain counties and any role they played or otherwise in the partial War of Independence is wrong.....as is your s@ite about royal cork etc.....Desmond rebellions ( third of population killed via English inflicted famine), resistance of O Sullivan Beare ( only Irish chieftain to be refused a pardon post treaty of Mellifont), the French went to land at Bantry Bay in 1796 the reason Cork/Munster didn't rise in the same way in 1798 were the brutal tactics employed in the aftermath of that aborted landing.....if you are going to spout sh@te about Irish history then at least learn some......otherwise let's stick to what this forum is for GAA" Desmond rebellions ( third of population killed via English inflicted famine), resistance of O Sullivan Beare ( only Irish chieftain to be refused a pardon post treaty of Mellifont), the French went to land at Bantry Bay in 1796
Cork City 1900 was royalist is the point I made. Have a read of any 20th century history or look at the excellent RTE documentary 'The Burning of Cork 1920' by RTE. So this 'rebels', 'what did Kilkenny do in the Tan War' argument is more nuanced.
Cusack is the fella shouting at Anthony Daly before the 1998 All Ireland 'Three, thirty' in reference to the number of all irelands Cork won compared to Clare. Daly thought he was talking about the time!! 3.30!
He's the guy with the superiority 'rebel', 'innovator' chip.
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 01/08/2019 12:24:23
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Replying To tearintom: "It was a valid point Cusack made, he just made it stupidly with a bizarre analogy
His point was Irish culture as a whole is resistant to change or should I say was resistant to change and hes right, particularly in the GAA, I mean Jesus Christ you only have to listen to pat Spillanes rants about modern day football "paralysis by analysis" and infiltrated by "spoofers and bluffers" etc etc. that's only 6 years ago.
And again you watch any Sunday game analysis of hurling and I use the word "analysis" rather loosely it's the same, they haven't a clue, I mean there are still people analysing the game saying that Brian Cody doesn't do tactics and getting paid to actually spout this.
Now quite how he jumped from this reluctance to accept change being a throw back to the mentality we inherited from the British Empire im not sure to be honest.
He would have been far better served pointing out the evolution of the sweeper tactic for example in regards to what Wexford do compared to others where it is deployed for example to solely keep the score down.
He could have actually pointed to the evolution of soccer and tactics from the start up through to Brazil and their 4-2-4 approach, the dutch total football, tiki taka and the gegenpress as example. Again plenty of other sports where the games evolved through innovative used of tactics, basketball and rugby spring to mind.
Cusack had a valid point to make but made a balls of making it unfortunately and the points got completely lost due to his bizarre analogy
I dont think he was insulting anyone apart from those who analysis is poor beyond belief and basically takes the approach of tactics dont work and teams only win when the shackles are off" Great post, I think that sums it all up nicely.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 01/08/2019 12:37:47
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Replying To BliainanÁir: "The guy has agenda MesAmis. Those remarks weren't off the cuff." Maybe he has an agenda, maybe not, regardless of an agenda you're still extrapolating the meaning you think he had from his comments.
That's 100% your creation, not his.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 01/08/2019 12:40:23
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Replying To BliainanÁir: "Desmond rebellions ( third of population killed via English inflicted famine), resistance of O Sullivan Beare ( only Irish chieftain to be refused a pardon post treaty of Mellifont), the French went to land at Bantry Bay in 1796
Cork City 1900 was royalist is the point I made. Have a read of any 20th century history or look at the excellent RTE documentary 'The Burning of Cork 1920' by RTE. So this 'rebels', 'what did Kilkenny do in the Tan War' argument is more nuanced.
Cusack is the fella shouting at Anthony Daly before the 1998 All Ireland 'Three, thirty' in reference to the number of all irelands Cork won compared to Clare. Daly thought he was talking about the time!! 3.30!
He's the guy with the superiority 'rebel', 'innovator' chip." *1998 Munster final parade
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 01/08/2019 12:52:40
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Replying To BliainanÁir: "Your opinion. Have you read Cusack's bio? Have you read Brian Corcoran's? Sometimes a bit of background doesn't go astray before you right a one liner labelling another's opinion daft. I don't think you know where Cusack has come from 2006 to the present." You're on a one man crusade here . You are right according to yourself and everyone else is wrong . Nobody be they journalists, pundits, the general public or contributors to this forum has come to the conclusions that you have arrived at and asserted here . It is not just my opinion that your conclusions are to say the least fanciful . You can continue on your one man crusade and you can continue to try to persuade everyone to your heart's content that you are correct and that they are incorrect . Good luck with it because I don't think you will get very far.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/08/2019 12:55:37
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Replying To BliainanÁir: " Replying To BliainanÁir: "Desmond rebellions ( third of population killed via English inflicted famine), resistance of O Sullivan Beare ( only Irish chieftain to be refused a pardon post treaty of Mellifont), the French went to land at Bantry Bay in 1796
Cork City 1900 was royalist is the point I made. Have a read of any 20th century history or look at the excellent RTE documentary 'The Burning of Cork 1920' by RTE. So this 'rebels', 'what did Kilkenny do in the Tan War' argument is more nuanced.
Cusack is the fella shouting at Anthony Daly before the 1998 All Ireland 'Three, thirty' in reference to the number of all irelands Cork won compared to Clare. Daly thought he was talking about the time!! 3.30!
He's the guy with the superiority 'rebel', 'innovator' chip." *1998 Munster final parade"
It is 1999 when that meeting between the Banner and the Rebels took place.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 01/08/2019 13:12:55
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Replying To Oldtourman: " Replying To BliainanÁir: "[quote=BliainanÁir: "Desmond rebellions ( third of population killed via English inflicted famine), resistance of O Sullivan Beare ( only Irish chieftain to be refused a pardon post treaty of Mellifont), the French went to land at Bantry Bay in 1796
Cork City 1900 was royalist is the point I made. Have a read of any 20th century history or look at the excellent RTE documentary 'The Burning of Cork 1920' by RTE. So this 'rebels', 'what did Kilkenny do in the Tan War' argument is more nuanced.
Cusack is the fella shouting at Anthony Daly before the 1998 All Ireland 'Three, thirty' in reference to the number of all irelands Cork won compared to Clare. Daly thought he was talking about the time!! 3.30!
He's the guy with the superiority 'rebel', 'innovator' chip." *1998 Munster final parade"
It is 1999 when that meeting between the Banner and the Rebels took place."]Beg your pardon.
Colin Lynch, Tony Brown etc 1998.
The 1999 prematch parade.
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 01/08/2019 13:20:06
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Replying To Greengrass: "You're on a one man crusade here . You are right according to yourself and everyone else is wrong . Nobody be they journalists, pundits, the general public or contributors to this forum has come to the conclusions that you have arrived at and asserted here . It is not just my opinion that your conclusions are to say the least fanciful . You can continue on your one man crusade and you can continue to try to persuade everyone to your heart's content that you are correct and that they are incorrect . Good luck with it because I don't think you will get very far." One man crusade with 5 likes to 2 dislikes to open debate. Silent majority.
Many know the 'traditionalists' he's hitting at, just won't say as hard to prove. Your gut tells you in most cases.
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 01/08/2019 13:23:16
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It's the fact that he stupidly mentioned the British having an influence over the way we are that has some GAA people chewing the furniture. Any suggestion true or false that we may still have any hangover from their rule in this country will get the heckles up with many. We don't like that part of our past and their treatment and abuse of the power they once had and once there's any current connection made it's latched onto as an insult in some quarters. The founders of the GAA set about eradicating any influences they had over our culture and games ( playing a big part in all but killing of Cricket ) and a lot of Gaels would be edgy about even a mention of British influence.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 01/08/2019 14:24:20
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Replying To BliainanÁir: "One man crusade with 5 likes to 2 dislikes to open debate. Silent majority.
Many know the 'traditionalists' he's hitting at, just won't say as hard to prove. Your gut tells you in most cases." 1-3 in this one . Like I said the best of luck with it gut reaction and all .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/08/2019 14:49:19
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Replying To Greengrass: "1-3 in this one . Like I said the best of luck with it gut reaction and all ." I wouldn't mind that. It's those who are debating with me are left on the thread. Twice as many agreed with the first post.
Donal Og has a lot of axes to grind. I get the impression you haven't read his book or followed his pronouncements too closely.
You're looking at what he said on Sunday in isolation. That bloke is a seasoned pro at getting digs in from his striking days and dealings with the Cork County Board. Best of luck with your rose tinted views.
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 01/08/2019 15:01:21
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Replying To BliainanÁir: "I wouldn't mind that. It's those who are debating with me are left on the thread. Twice as many agreed with the first post.
Donal Og has a lot of axes to grind. I get the impression you haven't read his book or followed his pronouncements too closely.
You're looking at what he said on Sunday in isolation. That bloke is a seasoned pro at getting digs in from his striking days and dealings with the Cork County Board. Best of luck with your rose tinted views." Whatever about what he said on The Sunday Game, i dont understand how anyone could say he doesn't have many many axes to grind and just as many chips on his shoulder.
IMO he at times does abuse his role on The Sunday Game to take digs at people
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 01/08/2019 15:20:50
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Donal made some abstract comments regarding colonial legacy. It's just an opinion, leave the guy alone. I am no anglophile but I don't think its fair to blame the Brits for everything, we are responsible for the GAA. Also, the GAA is doing great in Britain and beyond, its great to see. I agree with Donal in that we do not have to follow a "marking" formula to satisfy convention. Brits are not to blame though but let analysts think outside the box without excessive ridicule.
suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 01/08/2019 15:21:54
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Replying To oneoff: "Whatever about what he said on The Sunday Game, i dont understand how anyone could say he doesn't have many many axes to grind and just as many chips on his shoulder.
IMO he at times does abuse his role on The Sunday Game to take digs at people" Quite true.
He wasn't best pleased that Tipp and KK made the final. Hence the over analysis of Wexford's great play and ingenuity, Liam Ryan's point etc. Derek McGrath's analysis was the same. No one mentioned that Wexford ran their race in the first 50 minutes with all the running from backs to forwards. As a poster on here pointed out sometimes it's best let the ball do they work.
The two men of the match TJ and Noel McGrath didn't get a mention. While we were treated to a defence of Waterford's tactics 2016-2018, and Donal Og's defence of Davy (his mate from Clare management).
BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 01/08/2019 15:54:43
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Replying To BliainanÁir: " Replying To Oldtourman: "[quote=BliainanÁir: "[quote=BliainanÁir: "Desmond rebellions ( third of population killed via English inflicted famine), resistance of O Sullivan Beare ( only Irish chieftain to be refused a pardon post treaty of Mellifont), the French went to land at Bantry Bay in 1796
Cork City 1900 was royalist is the point I made. Have a read of any 20th century history or look at the excellent RTE documentary 'The Burning of Cork 1920' by RTE. So this 'rebels', 'what did Kilkenny do in the Tan War' argument is more nuanced.
Cusack is the fella shouting at Anthony Daly before the 1998 All Ireland 'Three, thirty' in reference to the number of all irelands Cork won compared to Clare. Daly thought he was talking about the time!! 3.30!
He's the guy with the superiority 'rebel', 'innovator' chip." *1998 Munster final parade"
It is 1999 when that meeting between the Banner and the Rebels took place."]Beg your pardon.
Colin Lynch, Tony Brown etc 1998.
The 1999 prematch parade."]Twas a wet day, the second day, and right in front of us Brown and Lynch went at it, hammer and tongs.It was all very uplifting
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 01/08/2019 16:13:50
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Bit of publicity and now he's interested in the Cork job.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 01/08/2019 16:28:04
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To say that I'm not a massive fan of Donal Og would be putting it mildly but I think this was more a dig at Sunday game pundits and people in the media who criticised his tactics when he was involved with Clare rather than a dig at Kilkenny. He has taken plenty of digs at Kilkenny over the years so he's certainly not above it but I didn't take this as a case of one personally. Not that I think what he said was nothing other than pure tripe. "The last remenants of British culture on these islands" Christ give me strength, the man seems to forget that we all speak English, play and watch soccer, rugby etc and watch British TV. I don't think Ireland will ever not have a certain amount of British culture. This was a massive case of self indulgence on his part. There was hardly any analysis of some of the important moment from the weekend. The imo dodgy penalty for Lim, the red card Buckley should have gotten, the disallowed goals for Tipp etc which were all critical moments in their respective matches and very little about the fantastic performances from the likes of Padraig Walsh TJ, the Mahers Noels Mcgrath etc which is what they should have been talking about. Twas honestly the worst Sunday game I can remember watching
LovelyHurling94 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 6 - 01/08/2019 16:31:05
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