National Forum

Is It Time To Bury Provincial Hurling Championships- At Senior Level

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Oldtourman:  "Maybe we should- go figure. No real Leinster team, outside Kilkenny, has contested an All Ireland Final at Senior Level since 2000. All five Munster Counties have contested All Ireland Finals in this decade alone, with Waterford Cork both losing a Final narrowly. No Leinster Under 21 team, outside Kilkenny has won an All Ireland since 2000. While Cork have won none in that period, Limerick, Clare and Waterford have won 10 between the three of them. Only one League title has been won by those 'other' counties in Leinster since 2000. So it is easy to argue cogently that Kilkenny do have an easier, and yes I do acknowledge that KK sides over the past twenty years have been utterly exceptional, road to ultimate success.
You mention Galway from 2009- interesting. Galway have appeared in five All Ireland Finals since 2009, including a replay, and won just one, a perfect reflection of their rate of success in their final appearances up to 2009."
My point about Galway entering Leinster in '09 is that even after that particular shark had been thrown into the Leinster provincial waters, and Kilkenny no longer had a cakewalk to the Leinster title, Kilkenny still won 5 of the next 7 All Irelands.

And no one has still been able to solve the eternal mystery of all Ireland semi finals: why was the 4/5 week break to the semi final said to confer such an enormous advantage to Kilkenny, yet the same break is deemed an interminable disadvantage to the Munster champions?

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1016 - 14/08/2019 11:26:09    2225456

Link

The biggest argument for an open draw is it gives the developing counties (and by that I mean Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Westmeath and Kerry) and those who just know they can't win a football All-Ireland a real chance of targeting something massive in 20 years if they do the right things.
At the moment, the reward for 20 years of work in Laois and Carlow is an up-and-down attitude where they are potentially (and I do think Laois could upset the apple cart in Leinster next year) cannon fodder and the GAA don't care if they go down.
Imagine if Galway, Wexford, Kilkenny or Dublin are relegated next year - how long before the clamour for a 6 team Leinster then?
Make it fair, make it equitable, the sun will still rise in the morning if Wexford play Limerick instead of Limerick playing Cork in the season opener. The fact that teams play the same teams every year is a bit boring in fairness.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 526 - 14/08/2019 14:33:41    2225611

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "Well they were in Munster and at all levels. I often think if they had stayed there they would have won more All Irelands."
I actually agree, I think for years and there would still would be a school of thought in Galway that liked to think of themselves as the poor downtrodden men from the West and the poor relations of hurling. Fact of the matter is that Galway should be and arguably are one the power houses of hurling. Yes their All Ireland record is woeful at senior level, but as you say Oltourman we'll never know now had Galway had chosen to stay in Munster to this day, who's to say they wouldn't have a lot more All Irelands. Instead they chose to go it alone, and that defeatist attitude haunted them for decades.

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 35 - 14/08/2019 15:50:18    2225664

Link

Replying To StoreysTash:  "The biggest argument for an open draw is it gives the developing counties (and by that I mean Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Westmeath and Kerry) and those who just know they can't win a football All-Ireland a real chance of targeting something massive in 20 years if they do the right things.
At the moment, the reward for 20 years of work in Laois and Carlow is an up-and-down attitude where they are potentially (and I do think Laois could upset the apple cart in Leinster next year) cannon fodder and the GAA don't care if they go down.
Imagine if Galway, Wexford, Kilkenny or Dublin are relegated next year - how long before the clamour for a 6 team Leinster then?
Make it fair, make it equitable, the sun will still rise in the morning if Wexford play Limerick instead of Limerick playing Cork in the season opener. The fact that teams play the same teams every year is a bit boring in fairness."
Make it 2 mixed groups of 6.
Put Muns 1,4,5 seeds and Lein 2,3,6 seeds in Group A (others to Group B, where Muns 6th could be a Lein team).

After 5-match round robin, the highest Muns and Lein team in BOTH groups play Prov Finals (or if you prefer, treat the 1,4 and 2,3 group pairings as Prov KO SFs as well to determine 4 Finalists).
Two Champs join top 3 from each group in AI KO QFs (most likely, Prov Champs get a bye to SFs instead, like now).

You get the best of both worlds - refreshed groups each year with the big Prov Final days retained.

Could do similar split Prov groups in football -
Group UL - Uls 1,4 with Lein 2,3;
Group LM - Lein 1,4 with Muns 2,3;
Group MC - Muns 1,4 with Conn 2,3;
Group CU - Conn 1,4 with Uls 2,3.

Add another 4 NFL highest-ranked teams to form 4 groups of 5.
Similar to hurling - have 4 Prov Finals - 4 Champs and each top 3 to AI KO 16 (likely less due to byes).
For fixture variety - group letters are reversed in EVEN yrs) - so Groups UC (Uls 1,4 with Conn 2,3), CM, ML and LU.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1610 - 14/08/2019 18:34:42    2225749

Link

We have the Munster League Dec-Feb each year. If that became the Munster Championship and if Leinster ran a similar competition, the MacCarthy cup could be an open draw with two groups.

Traditionalists might not like it but for fans and players it might be something to look forward to in the new year and we would have three meaningful completions to aim at.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6131 - 15/08/2019 13:24:15    2225998

Link

Replying To slayer:  "We have the Munster League Dec-Feb each year. If that became the Munster Championship and if Leinster ran a similar competition, the MacCarthy cup could be an open draw with two groups.

Traditionalists might not like it but for fans and players it might be something to look forward to in the new year and we would have three meaningful completions to aim at."
spot on here,omaha and storystash above,the traditionalists are stifling progress and the spread of hurling beyond a handful of counties.
i am amazed to see the support for the idea from munster though,i thought that was where all the support for the provincial championships was coming from.
the whole gaa structure needs a massive shot in the arm and ideas like these,even on a 3 year trial,are great

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3426 - 15/08/2019 19:45:40    2226152

Link