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Replying To Whammo86: "I'd be open to reading from other sources.
If I saw something to change my mind I would change my mind.
I did think on your points also. The numbers stated are for under 10s I think it likely many of these aren't registered members.
The numbers also fit a sense check. They are eminently believable. In Kilmacud Crokes for instance they are capping out their 4 year old nursery at 100 children.
Granted it's the largest club but that is still numbers for only 1 club.
On your point on naively swallowing something used to gain funding, I guess I'm just assuming that the Blue Wave was engaging in fraud.
On my interest in Dublin GAA.
I do now live and work in Dublin. It's something I've mentioned on here many times.
Mainly my interest in GDF comes from being on this site and being irritated by the number of these GAA are killing the game by funding Dublin threads.
The bug the hell out of me.
Most of the stuff goes unchecked.
People will say things like it's obvious that Dublin GAA are grossly overfunded.
Well that's not obvious to me at all.
Dublin get 1.23m out of a total GDF pot of 11m currently.
Ewan McKenna's analysis is rubbish because he neglects the fact that GDOs are paid for by Provincial councils in every other county outside of Dublin.
I'd be willing to listen to any argument moving beyond that but none have been forthcoming." You gave numbers as if they were facts, yet you cannot back up these stated figures. Children under any age in the GAA are supposed to be registered for insurance & child safety reasons. Your Blue Wave figures you gave as fact are anything but & you haven't actually backed it up. It's amazing how many Dubs & GAA employees come on here stating figures & facts as if they are untouchable. Eminently believable & fact are two very different things.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 31/07/2019 04:58:52
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Replying To moc.dna: "You gave numbers as if they were facts, yet you cannot back up these stated figures. Children under any age in the GAA are supposed to be registered for insurance & child safety reasons. Your Blue Wave figures you gave as fact are anything but & you haven't actually backed it up. It's amazing how many Dubs & GAA employees come on here stating figures & facts as if they are untouchable. Eminently believable & fact are two very different things." That's a fair criticism. I was certainly presenting the numbers uncritically.
This is an Internet forum though and few others are ever held to the scrutiny that you're applying to me.
I will be more careful though because I do believe in the spirit of my arguments and don't want to undermine it.
I don't believe those Blue Wave numbers to be pulled from nowhere. They actually just can't be, it's illegal to be procuring money under false pretenses. The definitely could be loose in how they've been constructed though.
Some on here would have you believe that no one is playing GAA in Dublin. I don't think it's true, although it is a fair point, I don't know why the registered members numbers wouldn't be increasing.
Do you have stats for membership and how they've developed. I have struggled to find them.
It's becoming less true by the year as more people move from country areas to Dublin and have their kids playing.
I'm not employed by the GAA or in anyway associated with a Dublin club.
The club I joined since I moved to work in Dublin is based in East Meath, although I do now live in Dublin city.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 31/07/2019 10:02:40
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Replying To moc.dna: "You gave numbers as if they were facts, yet you cannot back up these stated figures. Children under any age in the GAA are supposed to be registered for insurance & child safety reasons. Your Blue Wave figures you gave as fact are anything but & you haven't actually backed it up. It's amazing how many Dubs & GAA employees come on here stating figures & facts as if they are untouchable. Eminently believable & fact are two very different things." The irony in that statement is quite a thing
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 31/07/2019 13:52:18
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Its all set up for the Dubs. Over 75 out of 103 matches played since Gavin took over took place in their home pitch. I'd say Kerry would have a fair record playing all their games in Killarney or Tyrone in Omagh?
Massive GAA money pumped into the capital which has generated funding momentum in clubs and unprecedented sponsorship.
I was delighted to see them win it under Gilroy and no harm in occasionally the dubs wining one but its out of control now.
And the attendances reflect this. Their own supporters aren't even bothered going along now.
lowballplease (Galway) - Posts: 935 - 31/07/2019 14:46:13
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Replying To lowballplease: "Its all set up for the Dubs. Over 75 out of 103 matches played since Gavin took over took place in their home pitch. I'd say Kerry would have a fair record playing all their games in Killarney or Tyrone in Omagh?
Massive GAA money pumped into the capital which has generated funding momentum in clubs and unprecedented sponsorship.
I was delighted to see them win it under Gilroy and no harm in occasionally the dubs wining one but its out of control now.
And the attendances reflect this. Their own supporters aren't even bothered going along now." How have they faired in the 28 games that were not played in Croke Park? The reality is that this Dublin team, in league and championship, has beaten the top teams away multiple times. That statistic is not a reflection on how important Croke Park games are for Dublin, that statistic is a reflection on how good this team is, on the road or at HQ. The results don't lie. The fact is that Croke Park has to be in some county. Attendances for football have dropped all over the country. That's not a reflection of Dublin's dominance IMO, it's more a reflection on the cost of now supporting a team through 8 championship games and 8 league games in a year plus the decline in product due to teams operating defensive systems is also impacting attendances. But in fairness we've seen some good games in the S8s and I'm sure the remaining games will be top entertainment.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 31/07/2019 15:15:59
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Incredible effort by Na Fianna
Effort mirrored by many Dub clubs north and south of the river.
Shows the work being done by the volunteer is well beyond the level of GPO's and gives a far better insight into the work being done at grass root level.
"With the greatest respect to sports journalism in Ireland, I don't think it's been well-researched. I could demonstrate lots of information that would make it a lot more nuanced topic than it's been."
Gray's club Na Fianna recently carried out research which revealed that 2,000 hours of voluntary work was going into the club on a weekly basis compared to 40 hours work by the club's Games Promotion Officer.
"If you want to talk about the relative importance of volunteer hours versus GPO hours, that's objective research."
What do you honestly believe is having the greatest impact in developing the games in Dublin?
GPO's have relevance but nothing even remotely as effective as is made out.
2000 volunteer hours per week at Na Fianna
Vs
40 GPO hours per week at Na Fianna
You apply that sort of insight across the board in Dublin and yes.. of course it's nothing to do with the volunteer right?
Congrats to Na Fianna for the massive work being done. It would be great to see more Dub clubs coming forward and shouting out loud about their work which is so easily dismissed and shamefully ignored.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 31/07/2019 15:46:39
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Replying To lowballplease: "Its all set up for the Dubs. Over 75 out of 103 matches played since Gavin took over took place in their home pitch. I'd say Kerry would have a fair record playing all their games in Killarney or Tyrone in Omagh?
Massive GAA money pumped into the capital which has generated funding momentum in clubs and unprecedented sponsorship.
I was delighted to see them win it under Gilroy and no harm in occasionally the dubs wining one but its out of control now.
And the attendances reflect this. Their own supporters aren't even bothered going along now." "no harm in occasionally the dubs winning one"
You're so generous. Thanks muchly. Would that be one title per 30 years or so? Would you be happy with that?
The entitled attitude does not even see itself for what it is.
Back into your box, Dubs.
steve097 (Dublin) - Posts: 109 - 31/07/2019 16:32:26
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Replying To jimbodub: "Incredible effort by Na Fianna
Effort mirrored by many Dub clubs north and south of the river.
Shows the work being done by the volunteer is well beyond the level of GPO's and gives a far better insight into the work being done at grass root level.
"With the greatest respect to sports journalism in Ireland, I don't think it's been well-researched. I could demonstrate lots of information that would make it a lot more nuanced topic than it's been."
Gray's club Na Fianna recently carried out research which revealed that 2,000 hours of voluntary work was going into the club on a weekly basis compared to 40 hours work by the club's Games Promotion Officer.
"If you want to talk about the relative importance of volunteer hours versus GPO hours, that's objective research."
What do you honestly believe is having the greatest impact in developing the games in Dublin?
GPO's have relevance but nothing even remotely as effective as is made out.
2000 volunteer hours per week at Na Fianna
Vs
40 GPO hours per week at Na Fianna
You apply that sort of insight across the board in Dublin and yes.. of course it's nothing to do with the volunteer right?
Congrats to Na Fianna for the massive work being done. It would be great to see more Dub clubs coming forward and shouting out loud about their work which is so easily dismissed and shamefully ignored." Wouldn't rule out the Dubs coming forward and shouting out loud about their work. Most GAA volunteers I know prefer to put in the hours without making a big deal about it though.
This guy says "I could demonstrate lots of information that would make it a lot more nuanced topic than it's been." Well do it so. Could/should/would = didn't.
The information he offers here is something a 10 year old might be impressed by. So the GPO's 40 hours per week pales into insignificance beside the 2000 hour workload spread between how many? And one of the key tasks of the GPOs is to co-ordinate the volunteers and their efforts.
The tripe being thrown up here in defence of the funding is cringeworthy at this stage, but this effort took the biscuit.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 31/07/2019 16:40:30
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Replying To Greenfield: "Wouldn't rule out the Dubs coming forward and shouting out loud about their work. Most GAA volunteers I know prefer to put in the hours without making a big deal about it though.
This guy says "I could demonstrate lots of information that would make it a lot more nuanced topic than it's been." Well do it so. Could/should/would = didn't.
The information he offers here is something a 10 year old might be impressed by. So the GPO's 40 hours per week pales into insignificance beside the 2000 hour workload spread between how many? And one of the key tasks of the GPOs is to co-ordinate the volunteers and their efforts.
The tripe being thrown up here in defence of the funding is cringeworthy at this stage, but this effort took the biscuit." What's your point about the number of volunteers? The more the merrier in my experience to spread the load. You seem to have an issue with that.
steve097 (Dublin) - Posts: 109 - 31/07/2019 16:47:19
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Replying To Greenfield: "Wouldn't rule out the Dubs coming forward and shouting out loud about their work. Most GAA volunteers I know prefer to put in the hours without making a big deal about it though.
This guy says "I could demonstrate lots of information that would make it a lot more nuanced topic than it's been." Well do it so. Could/should/would = didn't.
The information he offers here is something a 10 year old might be impressed by. So the GPO's 40 hours per week pales into insignificance beside the 2000 hour workload spread between how many? And one of the key tasks of the GPOs is to co-ordinate the volunteers and their efforts.
The tripe being thrown up here in defence of the funding is cringeworthy at this stage, but this effort took the biscuit." I liked a quote from Tomas O'Se in the Indo last week. If nothing else it serves to illustrate the importance of the likes of the 2,000 voluntary hours per week at Na Fianna versus funding that has supplied a GDO, half paid for by the club anyway, doing 40hrs per week.
As Tomas puts it...
"Trust me, you could throw money at any team you like and it wouldn't bring a guarantee of success. That point seems to get overlooked in every conversation about the Dubs."
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 31/07/2019 17:03:24
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Replying To jimbodub: "Incredible effort by Na Fianna
Effort mirrored by many Dub clubs north and south of the river.
Shows the work being done by the volunteer is well beyond the level of GPO's and gives a far better insight into the work being done at grass root level.
"With the greatest respect to sports journalism in Ireland, I don't think it's been well-researched. I could demonstrate lots of information that would make it a lot more nuanced topic than it's been."
Gray's club Na Fianna recently carried out research which revealed that 2,000 hours of voluntary work was going into the club on a weekly basis compared to 40 hours work by the club's Games Promotion Officer.
"If you want to talk about the relative importance of volunteer hours versus GPO hours, that's objective research."
What do you honestly believe is having the greatest impact in developing the games in Dublin?
GPO's have relevance but nothing even remotely as effective as is made out.
2000 volunteer hours per week at Na Fianna
Vs
40 GPO hours per week at Na Fianna
You apply that sort of insight across the board in Dublin and yes.. of course it's nothing to do with the volunteer right?
Congrats to Na Fianna for the massive work being done. It would be great to see more Dub clubs coming forward and shouting out loud about their work which is so easily dismissed and shamefully ignored." All voluntary activity is to be praised & well done to Na Fianna but the Dublin U 20 manager completely misses the point. Voluntary activity is taking place in every club across the country pro rata to the size of each club. The size of the Na Fianna club & the number of hours doesn't overcome the number of voluntary hours been put into smaller rural clubs, in fact I would say that pro rata voluntary activity in all clubs would equal out regardless of size or location. Nobody is questioning volunteerism in Dublin & to say so, is only clouding the issue.
The alarming figure for me is the number of GPO hours they received, as I know that clubs in Galway are receiving no where near that at any level even pro rata. In fact with direct past experience, the only GPO hours certain club were getting was through local schools with less than 20 hours in the year.
It's interesting that the President John Horan's club are the first out with these facts, the fact that Dublin volunteerism is being put forward as greater than any other volunteerism nationwide is deeply insulting & should result in a massive backlash, in fact it does nothing but damage the already under threat level of volunteerism.
The figures quoted for GPO hours may yet come back to haunt them as clubs nationwide will now do their own research & the findings for the GAA may be very very alarming.
This whole festering issue is deeply dividing the whole Association & damaging the whole association. The fact that we have highly paid officials & DG & there is not a peep from them as the whole thing festers, just like all the problems last year, shows nothing but lack of leadership.
Ideally the ESRI could be commissioned to establish the facts around this matter independently of the GAA & let the real story emerge, as it has now become he says, she says & nothing but spin.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 31/07/2019 19:31:53
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lol
GPO's showing young children, little boys and girls how to catch and kick/puck a ball.. kids looking around the place talking about Minecraft and Pokémon.. whistle blows..
"right we'll be running around some cones and doing some picking the ball up with your foot, Tommy put away them cards and get the bag of balls"
The level of impact a few of yiz are suggesting this is having is laughable. Nonsense.
Well done you can barely kick a ball.. welcome to the Dublin senior football team.
Let's forget the 10-15 years of development after that and the many thousands of hours of volunteerism to get you there, all the sacrifices you put in to get better. The disappointments, the injuries, self doubt, temptations..
Yeah.. it's all down to that bloke.. ehhh I forget his name but I have some vague recollection of losing a Pokémon card and a fella with a whistle and small traffic cones telling me not to kick the ball over my head!
It's all down to him I'm playing for Dublin. That was a piece of piss. Nice one.
It's a minuscule drop in the ocean.. the elevated importance it's given is ridiculous.
Fair play it's great to have these structures in place and it's important. Given the sheer volume of children in Dublin compared to any other county.. they are busier in Dublin. It's nice to have a simple introduction where you can have a bit of fun and run around a bit... but Jaysus you've a long road ahead kid and there's a tiny chance you might make it on for 10 minutes in an O'Byrne Cup game if you're blessed..
These officers are promoting the game to small children. They aren't shaping your progress through your GAA career.. nowhere even remotely close..
That's all down to you and the effort of your club.
"Ok so Tommy.. well done for not kicking the ball over your head"
"Best of luck in the future.."
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 31/07/2019 21:38:39
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Replying To moc.dna: "All voluntary activity is to be praised & well done to Na Fianna but the Dublin U 20 manager completely misses the point. Voluntary activity is taking place in every club across the country pro rata to the size of each club. The size of the Na Fianna club & the number of hours doesn't overcome the number of voluntary hours been put into smaller rural clubs, in fact I would say that pro rata voluntary activity in all clubs would equal out regardless of size or location. Nobody is questioning volunteerism in Dublin & to say so, is only clouding the issue.
The alarming figure for me is the number of GPO hours they received, as I know that clubs in Galway are receiving no where near that at any level even pro rata. In fact with direct past experience, the only GPO hours certain club were getting was through local schools with less than 20 hours in the year.
It's interesting that the President John Horan's club are the first out with these facts, the fact that Dublin volunteerism is being put forward as greater than any other volunteerism nationwide is deeply insulting & should result in a massive backlash, in fact it does nothing but damage the already under threat level of volunteerism.
The figures quoted for GPO hours may yet come back to haunt them as clubs nationwide will now do their own research & the findings for the GAA may be very very alarming.
This whole festering issue is deeply dividing the whole Association & damaging the whole association. The fact that we have highly paid officials & DG & there is not a peep from them as the whole thing festers, just like all the problems last year, shows nothing but lack of leadership.
Ideally the ESRI could be commissioned to establish the facts around this matter independently of the GAA & let the real story emerge, as it has now become he says, she says & nothing but spin." That works on the presumption that the GAA fund the club aspect of the GDO, they don't they fund the school aspect.
The DCB/Clubs fund their own GDO.
Dublin spent 3.7 mill on coaching/games development last year, central council provided 1.2 mill odd of that.
Why do other counties have less hours, very simply neither the county of club want or can't fund 75% of their own games development., the way Dublin can.
You can see why the GAA like the Dublin model, it would be incredible if counties could do similar and fund 75% of their own games development.
But what's the answer by most, cut Dublin funding and we just want more money, with the above in mind why should it be given, the answer for most seems to be just give us a hand out.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 31/07/2019 22:07:07
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I'm very worried about the contents of this article. It seems that Dublin GAA is being underfunded. I want to know who this can be addressed and how Dublin GAA can be brought up to the same standard as other counties, funding wise.
CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 31/07/2019 22:22:40
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Replying To Whammo86: "I'd be open to reading from other sources.
If I saw something to change my mind I would change my mind.
I did think on your points also. The numbers stated are for under 10s I think it likely many of these aren't registered members.
The numbers also fit a sense check. They are eminently believable. In Kilmacud Crokes for instance they are capping out their 4 year old nursery at 100 children.
Granted it's the largest club but that is still numbers for only 1 club.
On your point on naively swallowing something used to gain funding, I guess I'm just assuming that the Blue Wave was engaging in fraud.
On my interest in Dublin GAA.
I do now live and work in Dublin. It's something I've mentioned on here many times.
Mainly my interest in GDF comes from being on this site and being irritated by the number of these GAA are killing the game by funding Dublin threads.
The bug the hell out of me.
Most of the stuff goes unchecked.
People will say things like it's obvious that Dublin GAA are grossly overfunded.
Well that's not obvious to me at all.
Dublin get 1.23m out of a total GDF pot of 11m currently.
Ewan McKenna's analysis is rubbish because he neglects the fact that GDOs are paid for by Provincial councils in every other county outside of Dublin.
I'd be willing to listen to any argument moving beyond that but none have been forthcoming." The blue wave report would have an agenda in terms of making the case for funding being required (both from GAA and national purse), there would be an element of spin to it. To me the figures seem unlikely due to the fact that many high population areas of Dublin such as Tallaght are served by few clubs (we often hear this being brought up on threads on this website).
I presume the funding we are discussing is for all under age groups. If this is the case most of this funding would not be for the Go Games age groups (Go Games only cover young kids before they play U12).
Also I would doubt if the number of kids who at some point take part in Go Games is representative overall of how many under-age players actually take part in all the under-age age groups. I have heard some town clubs joking that some parents treat the Go Games age groups as a kind of baby sitting service where they can get kids minded at times when it suits.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 01/08/2019 00:03:04
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For as long as I've been posting on HS I've maintained that Antrim and Belfast were shamefully underfunded by the Association given their population, number of clubs and members and potential. I was often told that I was being paranoid, jealous, begrudging etc etc. Now that the GAA hierarchy, sports bodies CEO's, some journalists and Dub fans are saying "Dublin gets this money because of their population size" I say "OK, if that's the case can Belfast now have our proportional cut from Croke Park which would work out at 6/7 million given what they have given Dublin". I think that's a fair and legitimate argument.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 01/08/2019 01:33:09
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Replying To TheUsername: "That works on the presumption that the GAA fund the club aspect of the GDO, they don't they fund the school aspect.
The DCB/Clubs fund their own GDO.
Dublin spent 3.7 mill on coaching/games development last year, central council provided 1.2 mill odd of that.
Why do other counties have less hours, very simply neither the county of club want or can't fund 75% of their own games development., the way Dublin can.
You can see why the GAA like the Dublin model, it would be incredible if counties could do similar and fund 75% of their own games development.
But what's the answer by most, cut Dublin funding and we just want more money, with the above in mind why should it be given, the answer for most seems to be just give us a hand out." No the answer other counties want are to actually receive a decent percentage of the 1.2 million Dublin get nothing more nothing less.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1462 - 01/08/2019 07:57:55
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Replying To Joxer: "How have they faired in the 28 games that were not played in Croke Park? The reality is that this Dublin team, in league and championship, has beaten the top teams away multiple times. That statistic is not a reflection on how important Croke Park games are for Dublin, that statistic is a reflection on how good this team is, on the road or at HQ. The results don't lie. The fact is that Croke Park has to be in some county. Attendances for football have dropped all over the country. That's not a reflection of Dublin's dominance IMO, it's more a reflection on the cost of now supporting a team through 8 championship games and 8 league games in a year plus the decline in product due to teams operating defensive systems is also impacting attendances. But in fairness we've seen some good games in the S8s and I'm sure the remaining games will be top entertainment." I think attendances are down outside Croker due to the fact that supporters do not believe Dublin can be beaten particularly when the game is stacked in their favour. And dubs are not attending because the games are no contest that they play in.
All the GAA money & sponsorship Dublin get, the 2 home games in the super 8s (would Donegal not be delighted to get 2 home games by hosting Mayo this weekend?), the home provincial final (the rest of us have home and away arrangements) is anti-competitive.
Dublin are the best team I've seen ever but there will always be a question over the fact that it isn't a level playing field.
lowballplease (Galway) - Posts: 935 - 01/08/2019 09:50:04
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Replying To Ulsterman: "For as long as I've been posting on HS I've maintained that Antrim and Belfast were shamefully underfunded by the Association given their population, number of clubs and members and potential. I was often told that I was being paranoid, jealous, begrudging etc etc. Now that the GAA hierarchy, sports bodies CEO's, some journalists and Dub fans are saying "Dublin gets this money because of their population size" I say "OK, if that's the case can Belfast now have our proportional cut from Croke Park which would work out at 6/7 million given what they have given Dublin". I think that's a fair and legitimate argument." I would too, equally Down.
Hopefully the Gaelfest initiative and the 1 mill allocated over the next five years is a start, hopefully as well their is capital injection for Casement too.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/08/2019 09:52:27
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Replying To Ulsterman: "For as long as I've been posting on HS I've maintained that Antrim and Belfast were shamefully underfunded by the Association given their population, number of clubs and members and potential. I was often told that I was being paranoid, jealous, begrudging etc etc. Now that the GAA hierarchy, sports bodies CEO's, some journalists and Dub fans are saying "Dublin gets this money because of their population size" I say "OK, if that's the case can Belfast now have our proportional cut from Croke Park which would work out at 6/7 million given what they have given Dublin". I think that's a fair and legitimate argument." Funny you should mention this. I brought up the subject of Belfast's population in the context of the Dublin "population advantage" debate on here a couple of weeks ago and was shot down in flames by an Antrim poster who cited everything from Orange Order clubs to Free Presbyterian Assemblies as to reasons why we should discount large swathes of Belfast's population when it comes to player pick. I felt like reminding him that the capital suffers from similar diversities but sure what's the point. So ye can't have it both ways. If ye have a huge population advantage then admit it and ye can then have some more money allocated courtesy of the Dublin cash cow that you always maintain that the powers that be are pandering to.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 01/08/2019 09:59:20
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