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Analyst Claims Dubs 'Actually Being Underfunded'

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "It shouldn't be based on player numbers but I would prefer that over population. I also wouldn't want the number of players to be capped. Their funding would go up if player numbers increased."
I think you've got the cart before the horse there.

steve097 (Dublin) - Posts: 109 - 28/07/2019 20:01:07    2217808

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "It shouldn't be based on player numbers but I would prefer that over population. I also wouldn't want the number of players to be capped. Their funding would go up if player numbers increased."
Hawkeye = legendxix

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 28/07/2019 20:21:55    2217821

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Replying To Donegalman:  "Hawkeye = legendxix"
I needed the exercise. :)

steve097 (Dublin) - Posts: 109 - 28/07/2019 20:45:57    2217839

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Replying To Paddy1967:  "It would be a good idea for all county boards to refuse to play against Dublin until every county gets the same funding ."
It would be a great idea Legend.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/07/2019 21:16:09    2217858

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Replying To Paddy1967:  "It would be a good idea for all county boards to refuse to play against Dublin until every county gets the same funding ."
The problem is many of them are tied down. If Meath protested the funding to redevelope navan would be cut and the little underage development money we receive too. Unlike Dublin many counties desperately need their stadium redeveloped and must be yes men for the GAA.

Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth all examples of this.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 28/07/2019 21:23:48    2217865

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "I didn't suggest that. We can give children a chance to play the games without providing based on birth rates. No other sporting organisation does it."
I'm not saying we provide based on birth rates.

There's no formula.

Money is distributed for projects not based on an exact formula.

All I'm saying is Dublin's piece of the pie is certainly not as out of step as Ewan McKenna would tell you.

There isn't financial doping going on.

I give birth rates because it indicates how much of a need for coaches there is in Dublin.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 28/07/2019 21:34:34    2217876

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "You can't wait for the rural counties to die."
That's just not true.

I just believe that people aren't being sensible at all on this topic.

There's an idea out there that the GAA only care about Dublin GAA.

It's simply not true.

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/tstblikbtwvqfubdiwpe.pdf

This a the development report for 2015 explaining all the work the GAA is doing all over the country.

All I'm saying is that I don't feel Dublin should be defunded with money redistributed to weaker counties.

Dublin needs coaches to deal with the sheer number of kids living in the country.

It's also not true that Dublin kids aren't playing the games.

The Blue Wave 2010-2017 proposal describes the numbers playing Go Games in 2010.

Out of of a total population of 38k for the 2 year Go Games age group in 2010 there were over 7k playing football and almost 5k playing hurling.

It's hard to know how many played both but those figures show that in 2010, before the start of Blue Wave, there was between 20-30% take up of our games by the children of Dublin.

That's boys and girls, includes all the kids with no interest in sport. 20-30% take up. It will only have grown since then.

To say that Dublin isn't getting kids participating is a myth.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 28/07/2019 21:48:09    2217882

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's just not true.

I just believe that people aren't being sensible at all on this topic.

There's an idea out there that the GAA only care about Dublin GAA.

It's simply not true.

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/tstblikbtwvqfubdiwpe.pdf

This a the development report for 2015 explaining all the work the GAA is doing all over the country.

All I'm saying is that I don't feel Dublin should be defunded with money redistributed to weaker counties.

Dublin needs coaches to deal with the sheer number of kids living in the country.

It's also not true that Dublin kids aren't playing the games.

The Blue Wave 2010-2017 proposal describes the numbers playing Go Games in 2010.

Out of of a total population of 38k for the 2 year Go Games age group in 2010 there were over 7k playing football and almost 5k playing hurling.

It's hard to know how many played both but those figures show that in 2010, before the start of Blue Wave, there was between 20-30% take up of our games by the children of Dublin.

That's boys and girls, includes all the kids with no interest in sport. 20-30% take up. It will only have grown since then.

To say that Dublin isn't getting kids participating is a myth."
Ledgendxix answering himself once again. Stay tuned for more, or a new thread perhaps.....

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 28/07/2019 22:27:05    2217900

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What percent of kids who go to Cúlcamps continue to be involved in GAA either through clubs, schools or both? Are members of smaller clubs who don't run Cúlcamps turning up to Cúlcamps in bigger clubs and talking to kids and their parents from their area letting them know about the club, facilities, teams etc?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7373 - 28/07/2019 22:28:18    2217902

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Replying To arock:  "The only thing us Dubs should keep repeating until it penetrates some very dense skulls. 1, GAA money is given to Dublin to solely and only spend it on getting participants into the game. 2, Dublin self funds itself. 3, Dublin cannot nor do not spend GAA funding on anything other than what they are allowed to spend it on. The issue you raise Re Finn Valley and competition from other sports is the exact same reason the GAA funds Dublin games promotion. 33% of pop lives in Dublin it stands Dublin must get a significant funding to ensure kids take up games. It is not for anything else every player in GAA is entitled to same GAA funding that applies to Dublin players as anywhere else. Additional funding should only be given to counties that promote ALL our GAA games not just one code. If Dublin self finances that is Dublins business and tough on the rest."
What bit of this debate fails to penetrate your own dense skull. Are you totally stupid.. or you deliberately choose to ignore the point that it all feeds into one County Team.... the GAA have enabled one county team mobilise or develop more players than any other county. And it has had the effect of increasing your success rate from 1 - 3 a decade to at least double this.

The GAA should release all records to do with Dublin funding and how it was initiated and the decisions behind it. Minutes of meetings etc. Other Counties should consider recourse for what is patently becoming an increasingly loaded All Ireland Football competition.

DonegalAtlantic (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 28/07/2019 22:55:00    2217920

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Replying To TheUsername:  "With all due respect you aren't making a point here, your just venting. Yes all funds go into the county, that's stating the obvious. You are venting on the assumption that Dublin funding is unfair, I don't believe it is and what you wrote doesn't convince me. Some of the winning all Ireland stats are wrong as well but that's irrelevant.

Turn the argument on it's head, if Donegal had a population of over a million, would they deserve parity with every other county per head of population pro rata, they would in my opinion. It's a loafs and fishes to people argument. Really simple Maths on the breakdown. If one county get 12 loafs and fishes and another 50, that seems unfair. If however one county is sharing 12 amongst 10 and the other 50 between 55, who has the better deal. According to the arguments presented its the one with 50.

I can see your passionate about Donegal and I'd admire that, I can see you are concerned about areas of the county. We have similar issues in Dublin. As someone who has played rugby, football and soccer all my life I think the correct approach is to give opportunity's to all sports, if that's done kids have a choice to make both at a high and lower standard, it's creates a lifelong involvement and loyalty in my experience. Maybe the answer for Donegal is as you say target areas, it's a good idea, I'd have no problem with Donegal getting increased funds for that - a question I have asked in the past is why does a county like Kerry with a similar population and make up get so much more in GDF then Donegal, that's true unfairness in my opinion, similarly, Mayo. I think Donegal have a strong case to fair.

Equally I don't blame you on Croke park, I'd be a firm advocate of Dublin not playing 2 S8 games in Croke Park, completely unfair. I think their are self serving interests in the GAA for this that I've recently looked into that are clear and contrived, but I agree it's unfair and should be changed. Hopefully not next year though as we are likely to play Kerry in the S8s there next year, the whingeing will be a thing of beauty and good craic."
Hi there, interesting of you to suggest I'm venting. Not in the slightest. You don't do yourself any favours by suggesting to another poster what they are or are not doing. I'm simply making my point. Neither am I in the business of trying to convince you and certainly don't need a patronising comment about "Really Simple Maths". I'd be quite happy with my grasp of numbers, thank you very much. You keep pointing to relativities, per capita etc when this is dwarfed by the absolute amount of players being developed in Dublin and the absolute amount of money being used to do so. If it's county versus county then the split of everything is on a county basis. The funding that has gone into Dublin dwarfs that of every county, and nearly all counties combined. As for my All Ireland stats being wrong, I didn't check exact numbers, but suspect I'm well within a tolerable margin of error, and in any event the pattern or trend is clear - only a small number (more than Donegal for sure), as low as one, in preceding decades, followed by dominance on an unprecedented scale in modern era (save for KK hurling, but don't believe they received same level of funding as Dublin) which came following a period of significant investment in Dublin GAA.

DonegalAtlantic (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 28/07/2019 23:09:46    2217925

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's just not true.

I just believe that people aren't being sensible at all on this topic.

There's an idea out there that the GAA only care about Dublin GAA.

It's simply not true.

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/tstblikbtwvqfubdiwpe.pdf

This a the development report for 2015 explaining all the work the GAA is doing all over the country.

All I'm saying is that I don't feel Dublin should be defunded with money redistributed to weaker counties.

Dublin needs coaches to deal with the sheer number of kids living in the country.

It's also not true that Dublin kids aren't playing the games.

The Blue Wave 2010-2017 proposal describes the numbers playing Go Games in 2010.

Out of of a total population of 38k for the 2 year Go Games age group in 2010 there were over 7k playing football and almost 5k playing hurling.

It's hard to know how many played both but those figures show that in 2010, before the start of Blue Wave, there was between 20-30% take up of our games by the children of Dublin.

That's boys and girls, includes all the kids with no interest in sport. 20-30% take up. It will only have grown since then.

To say that Dublin isn't getting kids participating is a myth."
Replying to your posts on here is getting more difficult as there seems to be complete oversight in relation to anything posted in reference to you & many posts in reply to you are stopped/censored, we all know why though.
You need to be corrected though as your dishing out information there that cannot be factually correct. In reference to the blue wave proposal, your figures relating to children playing Go Games was collated from what source other than the authors of the blue wave ? They are certainly not from GAA membership as it doesn't correspond with registered numbers. The blue wave report was drawn up as a document partly to source direct funding from a number of sources so anybody who swallows the figures given from it is naive.
Your interest in Dublin games development funding is amazing & intersting, especially when you start digging !

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 29/07/2019 02:08:44    2217946

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It's clear from the figures in the article that Dublin GAA is indeed being underfunded in the terms talked about.

CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 29/07/2019 09:42:53    2217991

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Games development funding is supposed to be based on registered players in every county not population so his argument is irrelevant , altho the figures for the amount of money distributed would suggest it is based on population for Dublin and registered players for everyone else.

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 891 - 29/07/2019 09:49:51    2217992

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This whole arguing about it is getting ridiculous, you can't argue against plain facts.and this seems to be what this analysist is doing.... its obvious that they are over funded to a ridiculous degree, it's also obvious that the funding is NOT 100% the reason for dublins success, the gaa cant do anything about the 2nd part, but they can address the first , and they must do asap, cause there is another batch of figures that is growing alarmingly, and that's the lack of people attending our games , even participating in our games year on year. This is solely down to the funding issue in my opinion. People are becoming increasingly frustrated with the lopsided funding and to be told then that it does nothing towards dublins success by the president and that is down to better volunteers is just the final kick in the b****x.

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 891 - 29/07/2019 09:57:48    2217995

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Games development funding is supposed to be based on registered players in every county not population so his argument is irrelevant , altho the figures for the amount of money distributed would suggest it is based on population for Dublin and registered players for everyone else."
"Suposed to be based on registered players"

What's your source for that assertion?

steve097 (Dublin) - Posts: 109 - 29/07/2019 10:04:28    2218001

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Replying To DonegalAtlantic:  "Hi there, interesting of you to suggest I'm venting. Not in the slightest. You don't do yourself any favours by suggesting to another poster what they are or are not doing. I'm simply making my point. Neither am I in the business of trying to convince you and certainly don't need a patronising comment about "Really Simple Maths". I'd be quite happy with my grasp of numbers, thank you very much. You keep pointing to relativities, per capita etc when this is dwarfed by the absolute amount of players being developed in Dublin and the absolute amount of money being used to do so. If it's county versus county then the split of everything is on a county basis. The funding that has gone into Dublin dwarfs that of every county, and nearly all counties combined. As for my All Ireland stats being wrong, I didn't check exact numbers, but suspect I'm well within a tolerable margin of error, and in any event the pattern or trend is clear - only a small number (more than Donegal for sure), as low as one, in preceding decades, followed by dominance on an unprecedented scale in modern era (save for KK hurling, but don't believe they received same level of funding as Dublin) which came following a period of significant investment in Dublin GAA."
Well apologies if you felt i was personalizing or being patronizing that wasnt my intention, if you felt that way i apologise.

Essentially you are saying Dublin gets loads of money have won loads of All Irelands and dont like it. That is really offering nothing new to the debate. Your expressing an opinion as opposed to anything, maybe venting was the wrong word, if you felt insulted i apologise. I dont think you are right and have backed it up with numbers and context. You are just saying i dont like it "fact" thats just expressing a dogmatic approach.

It is very simple maths, but let me make it simpilar take the mid 17 mill figure as that seems the ire of your point - i go back to me loafs and fishes argument, over the time frame, you neglect to accumulate the population over the same period of time and divide. if you did you come up with a figure that is just barely over a euro ahead. People see a big figure but ignore a, as big population. That is the flaw in the argument you present.

Dublin in all honesty, are the most remarkable footballing county in Ireland, its only since the mid 00's that they have had equal funding pro rata with the rest of Ireland, yet somehow managed to be be in second place overall despite a clear handicap of getting an allocation of funding of a county with 140k for a population north of 1 mill for most of its history.

Dublin are proving now what can be done, when there is a level playing field for funding.

Look at the population to funding ratios, Dublin are in a mid section of counties and at about par funding, even now, there are many counties who have a better deal.

With you own county in mind though i think Donegals funding is scandalous and pound for pound they have a strong case for the most successful and underfunded county in Ireland.

No point comparing Dublin, you have to compare like for like - take Mayo, Kerry and Donegal, counties with similar populations, make ups and contemporary success, look at the difference, that is competently unfair:

Kerry GDF 197.600 euro, population of Kerry 147.000, ratio = 1.34 euro per head.

Mayo GDF 134.29 euro, population of Mayo, 130.5k, ratio = 1.02 euro per head.

Donegal GDF 130.2k euro, population 159.1k = 81 cent per head.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 29/07/2019 10:21:12    2218016

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Well apologies if you felt i was personalizing or being patronizing that wasnt my intention, if you felt that way i apologise.

Essentially you are saying Dublin gets loads of money have won loads of All Irelands and dont like it. That is really offering nothing new to the debate. Your expressing an opinion as opposed to anything, maybe venting was the wrong word, if you felt insulted i apologise. I dont think you are right and have backed it up with numbers and context. You are just saying i dont like it "fact" thats just expressing a dogmatic approach.

It is very simple maths, but let me make it simpilar take the mid 17 mill figure as that seems the ire of your point - i go back to me loafs and fishes argument, over the time frame, you neglect to accumulate the population over the same period of time and divide. if you did you come up with a figure that is just barely over a euro ahead. People see a big figure but ignore a, as big population. That is the flaw in the argument you present.

Dublin in all honesty, are the most remarkable footballing county in Ireland, its only since the mid 00's that they have had equal funding pro rata with the rest of Ireland, yet somehow managed to be be in second place overall despite a clear handicap of getting an allocation of funding of a county with 140k for a population north of 1 mill for most of its history.

Dublin are proving now what can be done, when there is a level playing field for funding.

Look at the population to funding ratios, Dublin are in a mid section of counties and at about par funding, even now, there are many counties who have a better deal.

With you own county in mind though i think Donegals funding is scandalous and pound for pound they have a strong case for the most successful and underfunded county in Ireland.

No point comparing Dublin, you have to compare like for like - take Mayo, Kerry and Donegal, counties with similar populations, make ups and contemporary success, look at the difference, that is competently unfair:

Kerry GDF 197.600 euro, population of Kerry 147.000, ratio = 1.34 euro per head.

Mayo GDF 134.29 euro, population of Mayo, 130.5k, ratio = 1.02 euro per head.

Donegal GDF 130.2k euro, population 159.1k = 81 cent per head."
I think counties should look at donegal as an example of a county that proves the gdf is a sham and this money should go elsewhere within the gaa. We are soccer mad. 3 of the last 6 International soccer captains come from 1st generation county men who also played gaa. Yet despite losing them to soccer, the gaa thrives here too.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 29/07/2019 10:57:21    2218036

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Replying To Donegalman:  "I think counties should look at donegal as an example of a county that proves the gdf is a sham and this money should go elsewhere within the gaa. We are soccer mad. 3 of the last 6 International soccer captains come from 1st generation county men who also played gaa. Yet despite losing them to soccer, the gaa thrives here too."
I dont disagree, Donegal are amazing at producing sportsmen, there clearly a lot being done right when you are producing top sportsmen in so many sports.

On the GAA front though, counties like Donegal are being marginalized when it comes to funding. Toi do a very short analysis, you are better off financially being a county with a small population like Leitrim, Sligo, Longford, Cavan and Mongahan then you are being in the middle bunch from 130-180k. Like Irish society in GAA terms they are the squeezed middle.

Big populations get relatively big numbers, small populations are accommodated yet there is a middle grouping there that there doesnt seem to be ryme or reason with Kerry, Mayo and Doengal funding is a conundrum i just cant work out. Just doesnt seem fair to me. If you accept the population ratios.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 29/07/2019 11:21:24    2218058

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Replying to your posts on here is getting more difficult as there seems to be complete oversight in relation to anything posted in reference to you & many posts in reply to you are stopped/censored, we all know why though.
You need to be corrected though as your dishing out information there that cannot be factually correct. In reference to the blue wave proposal, your figures relating to children playing Go Games was collated from what source other than the authors of the blue wave ? They are certainly not from GAA membership as it doesn't correspond with registered numbers. The blue wave report was drawn up as a document partly to source direct funding from a number of sources so anybody who swallows the figures given from it is naive.
Your interest in Dublin games development funding is amazing & intersting, especially when you start digging !"
I'd be open to reading from other sources.

If I saw something to change my mind I would change my mind.

I did think on your points also. The numbers stated are for under 10s I think it likely many of these aren't registered members.

The numbers also fit a sense check. They are eminently believable. In Kilmacud Crokes for instance they are capping out their 4 year old nursery at 100 children.

Granted it's the largest club but that is still numbers for only 1 club.

On your point on naively swallowing something used to gain funding, I guess I'm just assuming that the Blue Wave was engaging in fraud.

On my interest in Dublin GAA.

I do now live and work in Dublin. It's something I've mentioned on here many times.

Mainly my interest in GDF comes from being on this site and being irritated by the number of these GAA are killing the game by funding Dublin threads.

The bug the hell out of me.

Most of the stuff goes unchecked.

People will say things like it's obvious that Dublin GAA are grossly overfunded.

Well that's not obvious to me at all.

Dublin get 1.23m out of a total GDF pot of 11m currently.

Ewan McKenna's analysis is rubbish because he neglects the fact that GDOs are paid for by Provincial councils in every other county outside of Dublin.

I'd be willing to listen to any argument moving beyond that but none have been forthcoming.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 30/07/2019 09:10:09    2218587

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