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Kerry V Donegal

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Replying To Mobot:  "What about the treatment Enright was giving Murphy off the ball? Is it okay because it was a Kerry man doing it?"
Obviously!

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 298 - 24/07/2019 10:21:44    2215628

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "We finished the game with a reserve team. Kerry aren't great. O Brien kept them in it with no disrespect meant.

If we Had our first 4 choice defenders, our 2 midfielders, our CHF and a fully fit Mc Brearty we would have won easily.

Saying that Moran would have played some impact for Kerry."
Well if that's your honest opinion than fair enough.
Having watched the match back last night it reaffirmed my belief that we left that game behind us. I actually think Kerry didn't play as well as they could, no Moran and Clifford found it hard to get into the game for reasons that have been well spelled out already! IMO we were 3-4 points the better team and we should have been at least that margin up at half time.
Most significantly Shane Ryan was responsible for gifting Donegal two points in the last few minutes.
I also don't think it was a penalty and as for the free to even the game, we'll let's just say if Donegal were a point up in that situation I doubt the ref would have given it.
Ref defo gave Donegal as much as he could - think Kerry need to appeal the red card and the black and, if possible, a couple of those yellows too - if for no other reason then to send a message to the GAA that we are sick of getting short shift from referees in major games in Croker. It's been going on for years now.
Anyway a draw suited us much more than Donegal. No disrespect to Meath (and I don't doubt we will find it a though game) But I'd much prefer going to Navan looking for a win than Castlebar!

Donegal played some great stuff at times, didn't like their off the ball shenanigans but suppose that's just the way things are in the modern GAA.
Michael Murphy reaffirmed his status of one of the best players of his generation and McHugh is class. Big test for them against a Mayo side that will surely rise it for at least one last hurrah this season but if they get over that they'll cause Dublin or Tyrone plenty of trouble.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 4859 - 24/07/2019 10:24:10    2215631

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "In numbers maybe, but Kerry losing David Moran is akin to Donegal losing Murphy. I'm not saying he is directly as good as Murphy but he is our leader and talisman and we don't have a replacement for him. When I saw he was missing I was sure we were done for. His absence was a bigger blow than any of the others on either team imo, and it's not even close."
Interesting viewpoint. I'll defer to you as you know Moran better then me, but when the team was called out in the stadium I assumed he was dropped for tactical reasons. Kerry didn't really do a full press on Pattons kick-outs. They dropped back and encouraged him to go short.... so that in itself would negate Moran's influence.

I don't think it was the type of game that would suit Moran. Even if he did start I'm not sure he would have lasted as the amount of running in the game was savage by both teams

himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 206 - 24/07/2019 10:43:37    2215638

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well if that's your honest opinion than fair enough.
Having watched the match back last night it reaffirmed my belief that we left that game behind us. I actually think Kerry didn't play as well as they could, no Moran and Clifford found it hard to get into the game for reasons that have been well spelled out already! IMO we were 3-4 points the better team and we should have been at least that margin up at half time.
Most significantly Shane Ryan was responsible for gifting Donegal two points in the last few minutes.
I also don't think it was a penalty and as for the free to even the game, we'll let's just say if Donegal were a point up in that situation I doubt the ref would have given it.
Ref defo gave Donegal as much as he could - think Kerry need to appeal the red card and the black and, if possible, a couple of those yellows too - if for no other reason then to send a message to the GAA that we are sick of getting short shift from referees in major games in Croker. It's been going on for years now.
Anyway a draw suited us much more than Donegal. No disrespect to Meath (and I don't doubt we will find it a though game) But I'd much prefer going to Navan looking for a win than Castlebar!

Donegal played some great stuff at times, didn't like their off the ball shenanigans but suppose that's just the way things are in the modern GAA.
Michael Murphy reaffirmed his status of one of the best players of his generation and McHugh is class. Big test for them against a Mayo side that will surely rise it for at least one last hurrah this season but if they get over that they'll cause Dublin or Tyrone plenty of trouble."
A Kerry man preaching about off the ball stuff. Watch the 2014 final again and then we can chat about that stuff. Serious hypocrisy

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 777 - 24/07/2019 10:44:18    2215639

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well if that's your honest opinion than fair enough.
Having watched the match back last night it reaffirmed my belief that we left that game behind us. I actually think Kerry didn't play as well as they could, no Moran and Clifford found it hard to get into the game for reasons that have been well spelled out already! IMO we were 3-4 points the better team and we should have been at least that margin up at half time.
Most significantly Shane Ryan was responsible for gifting Donegal two points in the last few minutes.
I also don't think it was a penalty and as for the free to even the game, we'll let's just say if Donegal were a point up in that situation I doubt the ref would have given it.
Ref defo gave Donegal as much as he could - think Kerry need to appeal the red card and the black and, if possible, a couple of those yellows too - if for no other reason then to send a message to the GAA that we are sick of getting short shift from referees in major games in Croker. It's been going on for years now.
Anyway a draw suited us much more than Donegal. No disrespect to Meath (and I don't doubt we will find it a though game) But I'd much prefer going to Navan looking for a win than Castlebar!

Donegal played some great stuff at times, didn't like their off the ball shenanigans but suppose that's just the way things are in the modern GAA.
Michael Murphy reaffirmed his status of one of the best players of his generation and McHugh is class. Big test for them against a Mayo side that will surely rise it for at least one last hurrah this season but if they get over that they'll cause Dublin or Tyrone plenty of trouble."
I don't think Donegal played as well as we could either.

You guys might have had chances to go 3-4 up in first half but so had we in second half had Eoin McHugh not messed up his goal chance. And we took the wrong option a lot in the first half too.

For what reason would you appeal the black card?

If pulling a man down by his jersey isn't a black card, I don't know what is. Even the very imbalanced (on paper) Sunday Game panel (that featured two Kerry men and no Donegal men) highlighted it as unacceptable fouling.

Hopefully the next time we meet, we'll both have our full teams out and we'll have a clear winner.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 183 - 24/07/2019 10:55:42    2215641

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well if that's your honest opinion than fair enough.
Having watched the match back last night it reaffirmed my belief that we left that game behind us. I actually think Kerry didn't play as well as they could, no Moran and Clifford found it hard to get into the game for reasons that have been well spelled out already! IMO we were 3-4 points the better team and we should have been at least that margin up at half time.
Most significantly Shane Ryan was responsible for gifting Donegal two points in the last few minutes.
I also don't think it was a penalty and as for the free to even the game, we'll let's just say if Donegal were a point up in that situation I doubt the ref would have given it.
Ref defo gave Donegal as much as he could - think Kerry need to appeal the red card and the black and, if possible, a couple of those yellows too - if for no other reason then to send a message to the GAA that we are sick of getting short shift from referees in major games in Croker. It's been going on for years now.
Anyway a draw suited us much more than Donegal. No disrespect to Meath (and I don't doubt we will find it a though game) But I'd much prefer going to Navan looking for a win than Castlebar!

Donegal played some great stuff at times, didn't like their off the ball shenanigans but suppose that's just the way things are in the modern GAA.
Michael Murphy reaffirmed his status of one of the best players of his generation and McHugh is class. Big test for them against a Mayo side that will surely rise it for at least one last hurrah this season but if they get over that they'll cause Dublin or Tyrone plenty of trouble."
Kerry need to appeal the red card and the black and, if possible, a couple of those yellows too - if for no other reason then to send a message to the GAA that we are sick of getting short shift from referees in major games in Croker. It's been going on for years now.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 298 - 24/07/2019 10:56:46    2215643

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It's interesting to see the different perspectives. Don't think there's any need for some of the childish posts but I'm interested to hear some Kerry views that yous might feel like you left that one behind. I watched it back as well and Kerry were definitely the better side in the first half, missing two fantastic goal opportunities. But one thing I didn't real notice when watching live for Geaney's chance was the great Donegal defending. Ryan McHugh is all over him and Geaney really can't get the shot away any other way than he did. There were also 2 Donegal lads on the line. Should he still have scored? You would say yes because it's such a great chance but massive credit to our defenders there.

On the flipside I think we were a whole lot better in the second half and didn't capitalise enough on our superiority. Bit of luck involved with the Kerry goal for yous as well I felt, just a mixup in defence and a situation which should have been mopped up for us ended up with a green flag. We totally butchered the disallowed goal chance as well. So while I would probably agree Kerry were realistically 4 or maybe 5 points better than us in the first half, I could say we were the same in the second. But that's not really factoring in that both sides had very poor wides in both halves as well (McBrearty had 2 bad wides in the first half, Murphy missed an easy free - Clifford had a poor wide first half, Seanie O'Shea missed a free as well I believe, just some examples there are more).

Obviously you look at these matches through the lens of being a supporter of your own county but I really think a draw was fair enough. With the pace the match was played at and the conditions, mistakes will happen, handling errors and some bad turnovers from both sides with poor passes or decision making. It all combined to make a great contest and hopefully we can both kick on, one of us somehow beat the Dubs and then meet in the final for a rematch.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 899 - 24/07/2019 11:11:40    2215652

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As for off the ball stuff... this isn't a "modern" development. It's as old as time with man-on-man style defending. It's illegal and should be punished but refs have no help out there. Defenders of all teams are at it. There was a bit of needle but no nastiness and I think the game was played in the right spirit overall. The ref was poor for both teams but luckily it didn't ruin the contest.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 899 - 24/07/2019 11:13:58    2215653

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Replying To himachechy:  "Interesting viewpoint. I'll defer to you as you know Moran better then me, but when the team was called out in the stadium I assumed he was dropped for tactical reasons. Kerry didn't really do a full press on Pattons kick-outs. They dropped back and encouraged him to go short.... so that in itself would negate Moran's influence.

I don't think it was the type of game that would suit Moran. Even if he did start I'm not sure he would have lasted as the amount of running in the game was savage by both teams"
They didn't press Patton 'because' Moran was missing, that's why they dropped back. It would have been suicide to encourage long kicks without him. It wasn't tactical, his replacement was a 19 year old that never got in to the game and was replaced early. It was unfair to put Diarmuid in that position in all honesty as he wasn't ready. Moran wasn't even used as a sub so definitely injured.

I don't know if you saw the Mayo game the previous week but David is well able to run, he is not the fastest but he has great stamina and is our best kick passer and a huge physical presence around the middle. I cannot think of any scenario where he would be dropped for tactical reasons, especially given the lack of backups we have.

I don't want to be harping on about it but I wrote on here a few weeks back that he and David Clifford were our two irreplaceable players, we have good cover everywhere else. Given that Geaney and O'Brien are in such good form I'm not so sure about Clifford any more we could probably absorb his loss a bit better but we simply have nobody else that can do what Moran does, or even get close.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1498 - 24/07/2019 11:19:13    2215655

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Replying To himachechy:  "Interesting viewpoint. I'll defer to you as you know Moran better then me, but when the team was called out in the stadium I assumed he was dropped for tactical reasons. Kerry didn't really do a full press on Pattons kick-outs. They dropped back and encouraged him to go short.... so that in itself would negate Moran's influence.

I don't think it was the type of game that would suit Moran. Even if he did start I'm not sure he would have lasted as the amount of running in the game was savage by both teams"
Think that's a bit simplistic. They probably didn't press because they didn't trust the midfield to compete well enough without Moran in there. And as for the "amount of running", people loved to say Neil Gallagher wouldn't be able to keep up but he was always a colossus.

No doubting Moran was a huge, huge loss to Kerry - but I think we couldn't capitalise properly in the end because we ended up losing both McGee and McFadden.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 899 - 24/07/2019 11:26:03    2215661

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This result undoubtably suited kerry better than it did us for the simple reason that they can travel to Meath and win by as much as they need to. Win by 3 points and Donegal have to win by 4 in Mayo etc. This is to top the group.

However, there is a very good aspect to this result for us in Donegal as well as kerry.

1 Neither team were beaten.
2 If Donegal have any championship ambitions to beat or compete with Dublin in the Semis, they will need a test like Mayo in Castlebar to bring on the required intensity levels.

I have a feeling if we did beat Kerry by a point or 2, which could well have happened, we would go into a dead rubber game v Mayo and lose a bit of momentum.

Both teams were well hit by injury. Eoin Ban is probably our new Frank McGlynn albiet 12 years younger than him. Massive loss. Hopefully We get our 2 mid fielders back.

I would say that the absense of Moran on the Kerry team cannot be understated. He ran amok v Mayo and gave kerry the option of kicking long in killarney. Definitely would have been worth another 4 or 5 points to kerry.

How would we have responded?

Hard to know but in all honesty it will have to keep for another time as this game is now water under the bridge.

Reading a lot of stuff about defenders man handling Kerry forwards. Are we going to audit the stats on the last 2 minutes of the game just because the sunday game highlighted this? Agreed, Kerry forward was fouled and got an undeserved yellow. Oshea got an undeserved red shortly after this.

These are issues down to proper refereeing and less to do with defenders or players.

Other incidents in the game worth mentioning.

Murphy actually pulled out of the tackle people are saying he was lucky he didnt connect with.
Penalty was not a soft one, stone wall. McHugh scored the follow up in any event. Refs whistle blew as Mchugh was about to score so the kerry lads hadnt time to play to the whistle anyway.
White's black card was a stone wall one.
Niall Odonnell got a black for nothing. Again, he pulled out of the tackle but simulation made by his opponent made the incident look like a foul. Ref didnt even buy this, he was going to balance the books anyway, and this was his chance to.
The free at the end to level the game was soft, but typicall of any ref out there to give it.
Steps are taken by players and if the letter of the law is to be applied, we will have no game at all.


People are getting upset about a result that ultimately has limited bearing on the destiny of the group. Both teams are still favorites to go through.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3621 - 24/07/2019 11:28:14    2215665

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@JoeSoap I'd agree 100% a draw was a fair result and a great result for Kerry actually.

You are right about Geaneys chance your defenders closed off all his options. Cliffords was a sitter by his standards though and he will be kicking himself. Paul's goal was a mix of poor defending and great opportunism.

I don't feel Kerry left it behind them at all I was very happy at the final whistle personally. I was sure it was gone from us after the penalty. I know we took the lead towards the end but both sides deserved something from it imo.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1498 - 24/07/2019 11:32:31    2215670

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well if that's your honest opinion than fair enough.
Having watched the match back last night it reaffirmed my belief that we left that game behind us. I actually think Kerry didn't play as well as they could, no Moran and Clifford found it hard to get into the game for reasons that have been well spelled out already! IMO we were 3-4 points the better team and we should have been at least that margin up at half time.
Most significantly Shane Ryan was responsible for gifting Donegal two points in the last few minutes.
I also don't think it was a penalty and as for the free to even the game, we'll let's just say if Donegal were a point up in that situation I doubt the ref would have given it.
Ref defo gave Donegal as much as he could - think Kerry need to appeal the red card and the black and, if possible, a couple of those yellows too - if for no other reason then to send a message to the GAA that we are sick of getting short shift from referees in major games in Croker. It's been going on for years now.
Anyway a draw suited us much more than Donegal. No disrespect to Meath (and I don't doubt we will find it a though game) But I'd much prefer going to Navan looking for a win than Castlebar!

Donegal played some great stuff at times, didn't like their off the ball shenanigans but suppose that's just the way things are in the modern GAA.
Michael Murphy reaffirmed his status of one of the best players of his generation and McHugh is class. Big test for them against a Mayo side that will surely rise it for at least one last hurrah this season but if they get over that they'll cause Dublin or Tyrone plenty of trouble."
Yerra, it's wasnt a penalty at all sure it probably should have been a free out instead.
The umpires should have copped that. They gave Donegal every point they scored and the ref was definitely biased against Kerry. When will they appoint a decent man in the middle to get Kerry over the line. Shocking altogether.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 920 - 24/07/2019 11:49:20    2215679

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "@JoeSoap I'd agree 100% a draw was a fair result and a great result for Kerry actually.

You are right about Geaneys chance your defenders closed off all his options. Cliffords was a sitter by his standards though and he will be kicking himself. Paul's goal was a mix of poor defending and great opportunism.

I don't feel Kerry left it behind them at all I was very happy at the final whistle personally. I was sure it was gone from us after the penalty. I know we took the lead towards the end but both sides deserved something from it imo."
Spot in Gerry boy as usual. A draw was a fair result.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 920 - 24/07/2019 12:29:13    2215697

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "Think that's a bit simplistic. They probably didn't press because they didn't trust the midfield to compete well enough without Moran in there. And as for the "amount of running", people loved to say Neil Gallagher wouldn't be able to keep up but he was always a colossus.

No doubting Moran was a huge, huge loss to Kerry - but I think we couldn't capitalise properly in the end because we ended up losing both McGee and McFadden."
I've no bother with both responses to this. Tactical replacement was my first instinct but its clear it was an injury. Moran is a great player no doubt about it. I still think it would have been a very different kickout situation to the on one were he excelled against Mayo, but sure, we'll never know.

Both teams had injury problems, It evened out over the course of the game. Hopefully most of our lads make it back for Mayo game.

himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 206 - 24/07/2019 13:50:03    2215747

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Some excellent posts there Gerry, DLman, himen and Joe.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2063 - 24/07/2019 18:31:17    2215900

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