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6 Team Leinster Championship?

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Would this solve the big issue for the Joe Mcdonagh cup teams? There would be an extra match for all teams involved. It might be a bit too soon as the gap is quite big still.

In my opinion the GAA should heavily invest in hurling in Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Antrim and Offaly with the aim to having 6 teams in Leinster. Maybe announce it will begin in 5 years time and leave the championship as it is for now.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 26/06/2019 12:21:26    2201189

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I agree. Allow a 6th team in one of the provincial championship. It is very simple to implement. The 6th placed team in the 6 team province will be relegated. The McDonagh winner will be promoted to be the 6th team in their province.

Laois, Carlow and any other county have to look their county boards to bring forward a motion. They have to take on some responsibility and lobby for change. They have to make some noise to be heard.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 29/06/2019 14:53:16    2202367

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why is it always up to leinster province to promote hurling?
tomorrow our minors have to play at 11am to accommodate the joe mcdonagh cup,then we should play an extra team to accommodate a progressing team,meanwhile the minors in munster play before the senior match,and would play a game less to reach the same point in the championship?
how long before the clamour to make it 7 teams,8 teams,etc?
i am sick and tired of everyone thinking that the provincial system as a whole has to be a sacred cow and that leinster needs to accommodate the progressing counties.
dont get me wrong i am delighted to see carlow and westmeath progressing,but we can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 29/06/2019 15:17:45    2202376

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "link

Would this solve the big issue for the Joe Mcdonagh cup teams? There would be an extra match for all teams involved. It might be a bit too soon as the gap is quite big still.

In my opinion the GAA should heavily invest in hurling in Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Antrim and Offaly with the aim to having 6 teams in Leinster. Maybe announce it will begin in 5 years time and leave the championship as it is for now."
6 teams in both provinces is and was the obvious option.
Why do you think it wasn't implemented?

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 29/06/2019 15:27:19    2202377

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Replying To Ej:  "
Replying To Jack_Goff:  "link

Would this solve the big issue for the Joe Mcdonagh cup teams? There would be an extra match for all teams involved. It might be a bit too soon as the gap is quite big still.

In my opinion the GAA should heavily invest in hurling in Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Antrim and Offaly with the aim to having 6 teams in Leinster. Maybe announce it will begin in 5 years time and leave the championship as it is for now."
6 teams in both provinces is and was the obvious option.
Why do you think it wasn't implemented?"
It might take a small bit of explaining but I think people can get their heads around the idea of 6 teams in one province, the 6th placed team being relegated and the McDonagh winner being promoted ad the 6th team in their province.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 29/06/2019 15:34:03    2202378

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Replying To legendzxix:  "
Replying To Ej:  "[quote=Jack_Goff:  "link

Would this solve the big issue for the Joe Mcdonagh cup teams? There would be an extra match for all teams involved. It might be a bit too soon as the gap is quite big still.

In my opinion the GAA should heavily invest in hurling in Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Antrim and Offaly with the aim to having 6 teams in Leinster. Maybe announce it will begin in 5 years time and leave the championship as it is for now."
6 teams in both provinces is and was the obvious option.
Why do you think it wasn't implemented?"
It might take a small bit of explaining but I think people can get their heads around the idea of 6 teams in one province, the 6th placed team being relegated and the McDonagh winner being promoted ad the 6th team in their province."]Very simple .....Carlow stay up and then either Westmeath or Laois is promoted.....the issue is the same problem exists in the Mc Donagh were Meath go up again this year but are probably favourites to come down next year so should they have a six team Mc Donagh cup next year too....so Kerry, Laois/Westmeath, Antrim, Meath, Offaly and Down it then provides the space/opportunity for whoever is promoted from the Ring each year to have a real opportunity to stay up and solidify their progress

For me there is no sane reason to keep Carlow up but then relegate Offaly (or indeed Kerry if they had lost) to the Ring as they simply aren't that standard and will simply bounce back up the following year...six team Mc Donagh cup provides that opportunity for teams to solidify their progress and start to work their way up the ladder the same way as those teams at top of Mc Donagh are pushing to get into Mc Carthy

Likelihood is that Down would be the favourites to come down from a mc Donagh but the experience gained would be massive while the winners of the Ring in 2020 Kildare/Derry/ wicklow etc would go up knowing that they have five good games ahead of them of which one at least is winnable to give them the chance to stay up

We need to find a way to stop the yo-yoing between the tiers and give those counties that are serious about pushing on something meaningful to aim for on a sustainable basis

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 29/06/2019 16:21:23    2202396

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "
Replying To legendzxix:  "[quote=Ej:  "[quote=Jack_Goff:  "link

Would this solve the big issue for the Joe Mcdonagh cup teams? There would be an extra match for all teams involved. It might be a bit too soon as the gap is quite big still.

In my opinion the GAA should heavily invest in hurling in Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Antrim and Offaly with the aim to having 6 teams in Leinster. Maybe announce it will begin in 5 years time and leave the championship as it is for now."
6 teams in both provinces is and was the obvious option.
Why do you think it wasn't implemented?"
It might take a small bit of explaining but I think people can get their heads around the idea of 6 teams in one province, the 6th placed team being relegated and the McDonagh winner being promoted ad the 6th team in their province."]Very simple .....Carlow stay up and then either Westmeath or Laois is promoted.....the issue is the same problem exists in the Mc Donagh were Meath go up again this year but are probably favourites to come down next year so should they have a six team Mc Donagh cup next year too....so Kerry, Laois/Westmeath, Antrim, Meath, Offaly and Down it then provides the space/opportunity for whoever is promoted from the Ring each year to have a real opportunity to stay up and solidify their progress

For me there is no sane reason to keep Carlow up but then relegate Offaly (or indeed Kerry if they had lost) to the Ring as they simply aren't that standard and will simply bounce back up the following year...six team Mc Donagh cup provides that opportunity for teams to solidify their progress and start to work their way up the ladder the same way as those teams at top of Mc Donagh are pushing to get into Mc Carthy

Likelihood is that Down would be the favourites to come down from a mc Donagh but the experience gained would be massive while the winners of the Ring in 2020 Kildare/Derry/ wicklow etc would go up knowing that they have five good games ahead of them of which one at least is winnable to give them the chance to stay up

We need to find a way to stop the yo-yoing between the tiers and give those counties that are serious about pushing on something meaningful to aim for on a sustainable basis"]Yes completely agree.

There has to be a mix of standards within a grade so that when teams are promoted they are in with a shot of consolidating their place.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 29/06/2019 16:52:40    2202406

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "
Replying To legendzxix:  "[quote=Ej:  "[quote=Jack_Goff:  "link

Would this solve the big issue for the Joe Mcdonagh cup teams? There would be an extra match for all teams involved. It might be a bit too soon as the gap is quite big still.

In my opinion the GAA should heavily invest in hurling in Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Antrim and Offaly with the aim to having 6 teams in Leinster. Maybe announce it will begin in 5 years time and leave the championship as it is for now."
6 teams in both provinces is and was the obvious option.
Why do you think it wasn't implemented?"
It might take a small bit of explaining but I think people can get their heads around the idea of 6 teams in one province, the 6th placed team being relegated and the McDonagh winner being promoted ad the 6th team in their province."]Very simple .....Carlow stay up and then either Westmeath or Laois is promoted.....the issue is the same problem exists in the Mc Donagh were Meath go up again this year but are probably favourites to come down next year so should they have a six team Mc Donagh cup next year too....so Kerry, Laois/Westmeath, Antrim, Meath, Offaly and Down it then provides the space/opportunity for whoever is promoted from the Ring each year to have a real opportunity to stay up and solidify their progress

For me there is no sane reason to keep Carlow up but then relegate Offaly (or indeed Kerry if they had lost) to the Ring as they simply aren't that standard and will simply bounce back up the following year...six team Mc Donagh cup provides that opportunity for teams to solidify their progress and start to work their way up the ladder the same way as those teams at top of Mc Donagh are pushing to get into Mc Carthy

Likelihood is that Down would be the favourites to come down from a mc Donagh but the experience gained would be massive while the winners of the Ring in 2020 Kildare/Derry/ wicklow etc would go up knowing that they have five good games ahead of them of which one at least is winnable to give them the chance to stay up

We need to find a way to stop the yo-yoing between the tiers and give those counties that are serious about pushing on something meaningful to aim for on a sustainable basis"]I agree fully. 6 teams in one provincial championship gives the McDonagh winner a reasonable chance of remaining at provincial level.

Similarly, 6 teams in McDonagh Cup gives the Ring winner a reasonable chance of remaining at McDonagh level.

The boundary line between the various tiers needs to be reviewed.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 29/06/2019 16:56:49    2202408

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Replying To perfect10:  "why is it always up to leinster province to promote hurling?
tomorrow our minors have to play at 11am to accommodate the joe mcdonagh cup,then we should play an extra team to accommodate a progressing team,meanwhile the minors in munster play before the senior match,and would play a game less to reach the same point in the championship?
how long before the clamour to make it 7 teams,8 teams,etc?
i am sick and tired of everyone thinking that the provincial system as a whole has to be a sacred cow and that leinster needs to accommodate the progressing counties.
dont get me wrong i am delighted to see carlow and westmeath progressing,but we can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long"
What elephant? The reason the provisional championship remains is because most people like it not cause its a sacred cow.

Elephant in the room describes situations no one wants to talk about but on this site people keep mentioning elephants that get talked about all the the time. Its like Noahs ark in here with all the cows and elephants.

The prov championships are great and I hope you win urs tomorrow

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 29/06/2019 17:08:17    2202411

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Replying To perfect10:  "why is it always up to leinster province to promote hurling?
tomorrow our minors have to play at 11am to accommodate the joe mcdonagh cup,then we should play an extra team to accommodate a progressing team,meanwhile the minors in munster play before the senior match,and would play a game less to reach the same point in the championship?
how long before the clamour to make it 7 teams,8 teams,etc?
i am sick and tired of everyone thinking that the provincial system as a whole has to be a sacred cow and that leinster needs to accommodate the progressing counties.
dont get me wrong i am delighted to see carlow and westmeath progressing,but we can only ignore the elephant in the room for so long"
The Leinster championship is the Leinster council's showpiece competition.

The remit of the Leinster council is to promote Gaelic games in the 12 counties of Leinster.

I think it makes sense that developing Leinster teams should be playing in the Leinster championship.

I think the All Ireland should only be loosely linked to the Provincial championships.

The All Ireland should include 12 teams in 2 groups of 6 played after the Provincial championships.

It should include the Leinster and Munster champions.

Teams should be seeded on their performance in the Provincial championships.

Each group should have 1 Provincial champion, the other championship's runner up, 1 semi finalist from each Province plus 2 other teams.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 29/06/2019 17:51:22    2202426

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Replying To Ej:  "
Replying To Jack_Goff:  "link

Would this solve the big issue for the Joe Mcdonagh cup teams? There would be an extra match for all teams involved. It might be a bit too soon as the gap is quite big still.

In my opinion the GAA should heavily invest in hurling in Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, Antrim and Offaly with the aim to having 6 teams in Leinster. Maybe announce it will begin in 5 years time and leave the championship as it is for now."
6 teams in both provinces is and was the obvious option.
Why do you think it wasn't implemented?"
I think change is always slow in the GAA. Ideally you'd have 6 in Munster and Leinster. If the GAA heavily invested in Kerry hurling they could be in Munster every year.

Leinster could have 6 with the Joe Mcdonagh winner replacing bottom place in Leinster and the Mcdonagh runner up having a play off with second from the bottom in Leinster. Again the GAA should be investing millions into the mcdonagh Cup winners with the aim to increase hurling participation in these counties. It could take 20 years but the goal has to be to get more counties up to standard.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 29/06/2019 18:04:01    2202432

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Replying To Breezy:  "What elephant? The reason the provisional championship remains is because most people like it not cause its a sacred cow.

Elephant in the room describes situations no one wants to talk about but on this site people keep mentioning elephants that get talked about all the the time. Its like Noahs ark in here with all the cows and elephants.

The prov championships are great and I hope you win urs tomorrow"
Still waiting for someone to explain why it's not 6 teams in each provincial championship.
It's the logical solution. It gives the weaker two in Leinster a realistic chance to stay up.
Would Kerry welcome the opportunity to play in their own provincial championship?

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 29/06/2019 18:09:04    2202434

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Replying To Ej:  "Still waiting for someone to explain why it's not 6 teams in each provincial championship.
It's the logical solution. It gives the weaker two in Leinster a realistic chance to stay up.
Would Kerry welcome the opportunity to play in their own provincial championship?"
Im fine with that if its what Kerry want.

As soon as it happens though we will have topic after topic about how Kerry getting beat by 10+ every week is no good for them and they should be playing teams of their own standard.
And the 7th and 8th best in Leinster complaining that they cant get in automatically despite being better than Kerry

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 29/06/2019 18:20:25    2202439

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Replying To Breezy:  "Im fine with that if its what Kerry want.

As soon as it happens though we will have topic after topic about how Kerry getting beat by 10+ every week is no good for them and they should be playing teams of their own standard.
And the 7th and 8th best in Leinster complaining that they cant get in automatically despite being better than Kerry"
Agree that Kerry will struggle unless there is some initiative from the powers that be to promote and assist the development of hurling in the county.
They did it in Dublin which is predominantly a football county. Yes Kerry hasn't the population to draw upon that Dublin have, but I personally am convinced it's worth a try.
As for Leinster, it's up to the 7th and 8th teams to reach the level of the 5th and 6th team. That is realistic and there really can't be any argument there.

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 29/06/2019 18:46:36    2202457

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Replying To Breezy:  "Im fine with that if its what Kerry want.

As soon as it happens though we will have topic after topic about how Kerry getting beat by 10+ every week is no good for them and they should be playing teams of their own standard.
And the 7th and 8th best in Leinster complaining that they cant get in automatically despite being better than Kerry"
The issue here is kerry. Because the mcdonagh Cup providing the teams for 5th and 6th place in Leinster works well. I know I keep saying this but if the GAA put in a major plan to grow hurling in kerry it could work.

I believe kerry will get beat continously by Dublin over the next 10 years and the gap will be big after the decade. Kerry football folk will be dissilusioned with the big ball game and more open to hurling development.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 29/06/2019 18:46:44    2202458

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "The issue here is kerry. Because the mcdonagh Cup providing the teams for 5th and 6th place in Leinster works well. I know I keep saying this but if the GAA put in a major plan to grow hurling in kerry it could work.

I believe kerry will get beat continously by Dublin over the next 10 years and the gap will be big after the decade. Kerry football folk will be dissilusioned with the big ball game and more open to hurling development."
Totally agree with your first point.
Big no no regards the 2nd. Kerry have always produced magnificent footballers and teams and as long as the game is played they will continue to challenge for Sam

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 29/06/2019 21:18:56    2202533

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Kerry is a humble county on southwest coast of Ireland.

Is mise le meas,

The Legend.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 29/06/2019 21:27:18    2202542

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Cyril Farrell was saying on The Sunday Game that the Leinster Championship should have 6 teams. The format is very straightforward:

Allow one of the provincial championships to have a 6th team. The 6th placed team is relegated. The McDonagh winner is promoted to their provincial championship.

The McDonagh Cup should also expand from 5 to 6. The Ring Cup as a consequence of these changes should be reduced from 8 to 6.

The McDonagh and Ring finals can be played as a double header in Croke Park on the day before the Leinster Football final. This will allow McDonagh finalists two weeks to prepare for the preliminary quarter-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 08/07/2019 08:53:24    2207571

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The beauty of the Laois win over Dublin is that the suits will have no choice but to have 6 teams in the Leinster provincial championship.

Now that there is potentially a genuine 5th competitive team, the prospect that one of Kilkenny, Wexford, Galway or Dublin could be relegated will not be allowed to happen.

If Leinster was to copy the promotion/relegation format in Munster, the Joe Mcdonagh competition will die.

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 08/07/2019 10:30:56    2207649

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Replying To Ej:  "The beauty of the Laois win over Dublin is that the suits will have no choice but to have 6 teams in the Leinster provincial championship.

Now that there is potentially a genuine 5th competitive team, the prospect that one of Kilkenny, Wexford, Galway or Dublin could be relegated will not be allowed to happen.

If Leinster was to copy the promotion/relegation format in Munster, the Joe Mcdonagh competition will die."
EJ there are a couple of things here.....firstly Laois, Westmeath, Offaly, Meath are all in Leinster hence the focus is always going to be on an expansion in the Leinster section ( even geographically it is closer for Antrim as well) that's reality

Also the soundings out of Leinster are that they are open to a six team group, its their championship so up to them in many ways and I think it will happen.....there is no appetite for the Munster counties to open it up to six counties and bring Kerry in ( not even Kerry want that)......again that is reality, it has nothing to do with your 'Munster snobbery' chip on your shoulder nonsense just facts

Carlow stay up and Laois are promoted which leaves only four in Mc Donagh cup so that needs sorted as well ( make that six too? don't relegate Offaly and put both down and Meath up which means the winners of Ring each year have at least one winnable game to target to stay up and consolidate).......as big an issue is the u20B competition with two walkovers already and a lopsided draw, this should be kept to the 6/8 counties that really want to play and give them 3 games in round robin with top teams playing in final.....no opportunity to develop lads in a competition where half the games won't even be played......

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 08/07/2019 11:09:51    2207681

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