|
I see the first round qualifier fixtures are out and none of the games are going to be shown live.
Poor enough form especially when ya see games like Monaghan v Fermanagh and Down v Tipperary there on the Sunday.
link
liatroim (Leitrim) - Posts: 8 - 28/05/2019 15:49:29
2188546
Link
0
|
|
I believe this is the result of very poor viewership numbers on early qualifier games in recent years.
Considering the amount of giving out we do here about the quality of the early stages of the Championship, I dont think too many will be unhappy about this.
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 28/05/2019 16:01:49
2188549
Link
3
|
|
Only set amount of games they can show during the season, Super 8s has now taken a chunk of that. Lot more games towards the business end of the championship and the later qualifiers when you're guaranteed bigger numbers wanting to watch are what the TV companies want to show
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2407 - 28/05/2019 16:17:51
2188554
Link
0
|
|
And we want a second tier all Ireland. This is the problem. No one wants to watch it.....just look at the hurling lower tiers.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 28/05/2019 19:59:45
2188603
Link
1
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: "And we want a second tier all Ireland. This is the problem. No one wants to watch it.....just look at the hurling lower tiers." No one wants to watch me playing Junior D championship. I'm still glad to play the game.
A tier 2 championship would still be a competition played at a higher level than many of us on here have played at.
There's value there for someone who wants to test themselves at a higher level.
People sometimes forget that our games are for playing first and foremost. If someone then wants to watch it all the better.
Get teams playing games and give them some reason to train and commit as much as they do.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 28/05/2019 20:40:36
2188614
Link
8
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: "And we want a second tier all Ireland. This is the problem. No one wants to watch it.....just look at the hurling lower tiers." What was funniest about the talk of the Tier 2 All-Ireland, John Horan is talking about striking when the iron is hot and trying to push this through while there's a supposed appetite out there for a 2nd tier. . .
So what he is basically saying is - "Let's get this through congress now, because in a year or 2 everyone will realize it's a stupid idea"
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5018 - 28/05/2019 20:43:15
2188616
Link
3
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: "And we want a second tier all Ireland. This is the problem. No one wants to watch it.....just look at the hurling lower tiers." Will this is the thing, you can't look at them, they're never on tele!
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 28/05/2019 20:49:46
2188619
Link
3
|
|
It they try and force it, it will be detrimental to approx 20 counties if not more around the country. If they dont give it the respect it and these players deserve, it will be another tommy murphy or b championship debacle. It needs to be promoted properly, sponsored properly, given proper media and tv coverage.
There is a model in place, as ive said before on another thread, at club level. Its senior, intermediate and junior championships. Players in these competitions, wud give their right arms to win it. Why?...because within the specific county, the local media and county boards, give these competitions the prestige they deserve.
As i said, with proper promotion and proper advertising etc, i think there would be a time, when players and supporters would see their team, eg longford, win an All Ireland Intermediate football championship, on an "All ireland weekend i.E Play ur junior and intermediate finals on the Saturday and your senior final on the Sunday, thus alleviating ur ticket problem.
There has also been some other great suggestions on the other threads as well. All however, are dependant on HQs will and determination to promote them properly. Thats the key, to make them prestigious.
If u go the tommy Murphy route again, u will have a situation, where all the best players in counties like mine, will just stick to their clubs, not make the sacrifices for a second rate competition and head to America. You ll be left a 8 team football championship in the future, if a second tiered competition is treated as one would treat dirt on their shoes.
If u think this wont happen, look what happened to derry and cork. Two great football counties, all ireland winners in the past.
Bottom line, make the competitions prestigious to win. If they treat the new competition like the first round of the qualifiers, with no live games, dont even bother!!!
Rant over!!!!!!
Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 28/05/2019 21:52:57
2188653
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Longfordbaz: "It they try and force it, it will be detrimental to approx 20 counties if not more around the country. If they dont give it the respect it and these players deserve, it will be another tommy murphy or b championship debacle. It needs to be promoted properly, sponsored properly, given proper media and tv coverage.
There is a model in place, as ive said before on another thread, at club level. Its senior, intermediate and junior championships. Players in these competitions, wud give their right arms to win it. Why?...because within the specific county, the local media and county boards, give these competitions the prestige they deserve.
As i said, with proper promotion and proper advertising etc, i think there would be a time, when players and supporters would see their team, eg longford, win an All Ireland Intermediate football championship, on an "All ireland weekend i.E Play ur junior and intermediate finals on the Saturday and your senior final on the Sunday, thus alleviating ur ticket problem.
There has also been some other great suggestions on the other threads as well. All however, are dependant on HQs will and determination to promote them properly. Thats the key, to make them prestigious.
If u go the tommy Murphy route again, u will have a situation, where all the best players in counties like mine, will just stick to their clubs, not make the sacrifices for a second rate competition and head to America. You ll be left a 8 team football championship in the future, if a second tiered competition is treated as one would treat dirt on their shoes.
If u think this wont happen, look what happened to derry and cork. Two great football counties, all ireland winners in the past.
Bottom line, make the competitions prestigious to win. If they treat the new competition like the first round of the qualifiers, with no live games, dont even bother!!!
Rant over!!!!!!" Agree totally. Get the winning team out to the Burlo on the Saturday night and have Marty and co covering the celebrations like they do for the Sam/Liam winners. They could tie it in with the annual Up for the Match program. Have winning team presented as part of the pre-match festivities for Sam Maguire the following day. Send the winning squad on a trip to Vegas!
The key word as you say is prestige. It can't just be another trophy with Paidí O'Sés name attached. There has to be real promotion and reward. Otherwise the concept is doomed to failure.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 29/05/2019 10:56:23
2188756
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Longfordbaz: "It they try and force it, it will be detrimental to approx 20 counties if not more around the country. If they dont give it the respect it and these players deserve, it will be another tommy murphy or b championship debacle. It needs to be promoted properly, sponsored properly, given proper media and tv coverage.
There is a model in place, as ive said before on another thread, at club level. Its senior, intermediate and junior championships. Players in these competitions, wud give their right arms to win it. Why?...because within the specific county, the local media and county boards, give these competitions the prestige they deserve.
As i said, with proper promotion and proper advertising etc, i think there would be a time, when players and supporters would see their team, eg longford, win an All Ireland Intermediate football championship, on an "All ireland weekend i.E Play ur junior and intermediate finals on the Saturday and your senior final on the Sunday, thus alleviating ur ticket problem.
There has also been some other great suggestions on the other threads as well. All however, are dependant on HQs will and determination to promote them properly. Thats the key, to make them prestigious.
If u go the tommy Murphy route again, u will have a situation, where all the best players in counties like mine, will just stick to their clubs, not make the sacrifices for a second rate competition and head to America. You ll be left a 8 team football championship in the future, if a second tiered competition is treated as one would treat dirt on their shoes.
If u think this wont happen, look what happened to derry and cork. Two great football counties, all ireland winners in the past.
Bottom line, make the competitions prestigious to win. If they treat the new competition like the first round of the qualifiers, with no live games, dont even bother!!!
Rant over!!!!!!" Great post, you are absolutely correct, if the 2nd tier championship isn't promoted properly then it will die a death. Hopefully everybody has learned from the Tommy Murphy debacle. I was thinking that these 2 options would make the competition attractive. Either have the final as a curtain raiser to the All-Ireland final or else have the winners get a place in the Super 8's. Would the attraction of getting to the Super 8's be attractive?
I would definitely watch the 2nd tier championship if it was on TV, as long as games are competitive. Its a real shame that the Monaghan v Fermanagh or Armagh v Tipp games aren't on.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 29/05/2019 11:21:40
2188762
Link
1
|
|
The lack of qualifier coverage is disappointing and it once again highlights the lack of promotion by the Gaa and interest by media. The Qualifiers are part of the main championship and the level of coverage is almost non-existent, could you imagine how dismissively a 2nd tier would be treated!
Now personally I've never been a big supporter of a tiered championship, I think a World Cup style format should be tried but let's say for argument sake a second tier is the only show in town. I think lower tier teams must insist on the following terms otherwise it doesn't go ahead:
1. That their championship is properly promoted and incentivized (the Gaa and relevant stakeholders can hammer out the specific details).
2. A televised deal must be in place to cover their games. Now, obviously not every game has to be covered, just the more important ones, similar to the current championship. Also why not hold these games on a Saturday and the main championship on a Sunday so they aren't competing for coverage.
3. Once terms 1 & 2 are in place, then it goes to a vote and must be passed by a majority of the counties who will be playing in the 2nd tier.
The Gaa can make lower tiers work if the will is there, but if they cut the lower divison football teams adrift and create an elites only competition like they have in Hurling then that will be a disaster for football in those counties.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 29/05/2019 12:55:43
2188791
Link
5
|
|
Its a funny one really! I often ask myself the question why would players from weaker Counties dedicate so much of their time for such a poor competition and season structure.
From recent treads here about this topic, I'm beginning to think its because of the exposure they get! A few minutes highlights on National TV or a live showing. I'm sure its not like this for everyone, but its definitely seems to be very important to most.
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 29/05/2019 12:57:57
2188793
Link
0
|
|
Fixtures arent big enough for RTE.
gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 878 - 29/05/2019 13:03:06
2188795
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Htaem: "The lack of qualifier coverage is disappointing and it once again highlights the lack of promotion by the Gaa and interest by media. The Qualifiers are part of the main championship and the level of coverage is almost non-existent, could you imagine how dismissively a 2nd tier would be treated!
Now personally I've never been a big supporter of a tiered championship, I think a World Cup style format should be tried but let's say for argument sake a second tier is the only show in town. I think lower tier teams must insist on the following terms otherwise it doesn't go ahead:
1. That their championship is properly promoted and incentivized (the Gaa and relevant stakeholders can hammer out the specific details).
2. A televised deal must be in place to cover their games. Now, obviously not every game has to be covered, just the more important ones, similar to the current championship. Also why not hold these games on a Saturday and the main championship on a Sunday so they aren't competing for coverage.
3. Once terms 1 & 2 are in place, then it goes to a vote and must be passed by a majority of the counties who will be playing in the 2nd tier.
The Gaa can make lower tiers work if the will is there, but if they cut the lower divison football teams adrift and create an elites only competition like they have in Hurling then that will be a disaster for football in those counties." Good post. We've debated this on another thread. Simply put, any tier 2 or B competition has to be properly marketed and incentivized or it's dead in the water before it even begins.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 29/05/2019 13:18:20
2188807
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Ban: "Its a funny one really! I often ask myself the question why would players from weaker Counties dedicate so much of their time for such a poor competition and season structure.
From recent treads here about this topic, I'm beginning to think its because of the exposure they get! A few minutes highlights on National TV or a live showing. I'm sure its not like this for everyone, but its definitely seems to be very important to most." I've a couple of good friends who have played for Antrim. One currently and the other not anymore but was doing so until very recently.
When you ask them this question and it's come up a few times tv coverage isn't mentioned.
Really they both love the game and want to test themselves at the highest level they can.
The Ulster championship was also a huge selling point for them.
An uncle of mine who was on Antrim's B championship winning team had good memories of that competition.
I think a critical mass of teams have to buy in to want to win those competitions for them to be meaningful. It was an interesting enough competition, it was in the pre qualifiers era and it was another avenue for teams to test themselves against teams around their level.
It was also in parallel with the early part of the league which teams were training for anyway.
The Tommy Murphy cup wasn't a great competition to be honest.
It was quite exclusionary also. Would a county want a competition like that at the expense of a qualifiers run and a chance of the super 8s. I don't think so really.
On average roughly 1 division 3/4 team has made the last 8 of the All Ireland.
I see that as being of more value to teams than a tier 2 win.
If the league were to move to a better time of the year I think that would be of more benefit to teams.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 29/05/2019 13:36:51
2188817
Link
4
|
|
Replying To Lockjaw: "Agree totally. Get the winning team out to the Burlo on the Saturday night and have Marty and co covering the celebrations like they do for the Sam/Liam winners. They could tie it in with the annual Up for the Match program. Have winning team presented as part of the pre-match festivities for Sam Maguire the following day. Send the winning squad on a trip to Vegas!
The key word as you say is prestige. It can't just be another trophy with Paidí O'Sés name attached. There has to be real promotion and reward. Otherwise the concept is doomed to failure." Oh and obviously the Paidí O'Sé winner is guaranteed a place in the Sam Maguire competition the following year.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 29/05/2019 13:47:53
2188826
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Lockjaw: "Good post. We've debated this on another thread. Simply put, any tier 2 or B competition has to be properly marketed and incentivized or it's dead in the water before it even begins." Absolutely, I think most people realize the importantance of proper marketing and incentivization at this stage, the thing is though do the Gaa realize it or even care?
Be interesting to see if or how televised coverage would work, as it is I think not nearly enough games are on the box. You have RTE, Sky, Eir, TG4 and BBC all covering Gaelic games during the year, with TV3 (or Virgin as it is now) previously involved.
Surely there would be room/appetite to show more games even at a lower level. Sky in particular will show as much as they can get their hands on when it comes to football in England.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 29/05/2019 14:08:55
2188836
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Lockjaw: "Agree totally. Get the winning team out to the Burlo on the Saturday night and have Marty and co covering the celebrations like they do for the Sam/Liam winners. They could tie it in with the annual Up for the Match program. Have winning team presented as part of the pre-match festivities for Sam Maguire the following day. Send the winning squad on a trip to Vegas!
The key word as you say is prestige. It can't just be another trophy with Paidí O'Sés name attached. There has to be real promotion and reward. Otherwise the concept is doomed to failure." I see your point Lockjaw but you can tart it up all you want, quality wise, it will be of a lower standard.
I wouldn't plan my weekend around Waterford vs Clare if it was on TV. You can let off fireworks, advertise ad call it the Peter Canavan Cup, I still wont be overly excited. I think attendance's will reflect that as well. If people don't attend games or watch on TV its on the road to nowhere. Like the Tommy Murphy cup.
John Horan can talk all he wants about a second tier but I cant see an old school GAA man like that getting rid of the provincials. They will crunch the numbers and realise that 20 people will turn up and it will be a massive waste of money, die a death after a few years, and he will turn around and say "I tried but no supporters showed up."
They will come up with some kind hybrid, keeping the money making provincials and creating a bullshit tier 2 all Ireland where players and fans wont be bothered.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 29/05/2019 16:06:09
2188883
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Longfordbaz: "It they try and force it, it will be detrimental to approx 20 counties if not more around the country. If they dont give it the respect it and these players deserve, it will be another tommy murphy or b championship debacle. It needs to be promoted properly, sponsored properly, given proper media and tv coverage.
There is a model in place, as ive said before on another thread, at club level. Its senior, intermediate and junior championships. Players in these competitions, wud give their right arms to win it. Why?...because within the specific county, the local media and county boards, give these competitions the prestige they deserve.
As i said, with proper promotion and proper advertising etc, i think there would be a time, when players and supporters would see their team, eg longford, win an All Ireland Intermediate football championship, on an "All ireland weekend i.E Play ur junior and intermediate finals on the Saturday and your senior final on the Sunday, thus alleviating ur ticket problem.
There has also been some other great suggestions on the other threads as well. All however, are dependant on HQs will and determination to promote them properly. Thats the key, to make them prestigious.
If u go the tommy Murphy route again, u will have a situation, where all the best players in counties like mine, will just stick to their clubs, not make the sacrifices for a second rate competition and head to America. You ll be left a 8 team football championship in the future, if a second tiered competition is treated as one would treat dirt on their shoes.
If u think this wont happen, look what happened to derry and cork. Two great football counties, all ireland winners in the past.
Bottom line, make the competitions prestigious to win. If they treat the new competition like the first round of the qualifiers, with no live games, dont even bother!!!
Rant over!!!!!!" Great post! The only way I can see a second tier competition work is for the counties/provinces to make the hard decision of diluting the Provincial Championships. By all means allow the provinces to play their championships early in the year but stop these being part of the wider All Ireland Championship.
I would select the bottom 4 counties in Division 3 and all of Division 4 initially to play a round robin/knockout competition. The GAA would have to lead the way and put huge finance into marketing the competition because I'd say the media companies would be ambivilant.
You could promote the two finalists to the senior competition the following year playing the semi finals as an undercard to the senior semi finals. These semi finals would become huge occasions as a win would get you promoted. Then play the actual final on All Ireland final day with a parade, playing of anthem meeting of Presidents and money for an evening banquet etc with RTE at the winners hotel.
There would be an element of "forcing this competition" using this model however as history shows there is little appetite to play in a second competition when you lose your first round game. Counties would have to earn their right to play in the senior competition, by being promoted from a well marketed second tier competition with genuine rewards especially going up the steps on All Ireland final day.
The semi finals in particular would be great games due to the rewards on offer and TV companies would likely have interest from at least this stage of the competition. If the plan is to throw together a second tier competition amongst counties who have already lost a Championship game that season then I think it will fail.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 29/05/2019 16:19:18
2188892
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Lockjaw: "Agree totally. Get the winning team out to the Burlo on the Saturday night and have Marty and co covering the celebrations like they do for the Sam/Liam winners. They could tie it in with the annual Up for the Match program. Have winning team presented as part of the pre-match festivities for Sam Maguire the following day. Send the winning squad on a trip to Vegas!
The key word as you say is prestige. It can't just be another trophy with Paidí O'Sés name attached. There has to be real promotion and reward. Otherwise the concept is doomed to failure." 'Prestige' and complete lack of media coverage don't seem to sit well together lockjaw.
Whammo wants to give players 'a reason to train' which is interesting since most players have indicated that they have no interest in a second (or third) tier competition. Counties might have to rely on Junior D players so, who knows, Whammo might hit the 'big time' yet.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 29/05/2019 16:26:01
2188893
Link
0
|