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Replying To Mayonman: "motion was framed the wrong way around. It should have said neutral venue cannot be one of the nominated home venues. this way dublin don't have to play games in parnell park. neutral game could have been thurles or somewhere like that." Do you not think Donegal thought of that? How many times does it need to be explained that in the eyes of the GAA there is no 'neutral' venue, only home, away and Croke Park. That is how the Super 8's is framed. Donegal couldn't put a motion forward about the neutrality of Croke Park with regard to Dublin because it is not supposed to be a neutral venue, rather the games are played there because it is our national stadium. This was all played out publicly last year.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 27/02/2019 19:07:47
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Do you not think Donegal thought of that? How many times does it need to be explained that in the eyes of the GAA there is no 'neutral' venue, only home, away and Croke Park. That is how the Super 8's is framed. Donegal couldn't put a motion forward about the neutrality of Croke Park with regard to Dublin because it is not supposed to be a neutral venue, rather the games are played there because it is our national stadium. This was all played out publicly last year." We can argue about the semantics of the motion all we like . What has happened is that the Super 8s as a competition has been robbed of it's integrity . The fundamental principle that underpins any sporting competition is that the particular competition in question has it's integrity . By that I mean that every team that enters a sporting competition has the right to expect fair and equal treatment under the rules of the competition . The fact that the motion from Donegal has been rejected means that such is not now the case with The Super 8s. Dublin are now the beneficiaries of preferential treatment under the rules of the competition because they are the only team in the competition who will play two home games. As a direct result of this another team in their group will have to play two away games . It was Donegal last year . This is in no way fair and equal treatment . The three teams who will play in Dublin's group this season will be at a disadvantage as Congress has conferred preferential treatment on Dublin. It is profoundly dispiriting that Congress has once again enshrined unfair and unequal treatment in the operating rules of the competition. The GAA has operated a policy of filling Dublin's cup to overflowing for over a decade however up until last year Congress could not have been accused of undermining the integrity of football's All Ireland competition . That has now changed utterly. I feel the Rubicon has been crossed and it leaves me to wonder where this will stop .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 27/02/2019 23:19:08
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We can argue about the semantics of the motion all we like . What has happened is that the Super 8s as a competition has been robbed of it's integrity . The fundamental principle that underpins any sporting competition is that the particular competition in question has it's integrity . By that I mean that every team that enters a sporting competition has the right to expect fair and equal treatment under the rules of the competition . The fact that the motion from Donegal has been rejected means that such is not now the case with The Super 8s. Dublin are now the beneficiaries of preferential treatment under the rules of the competition because they are the only team in the competition who will play two home games. As a direct result of this another team in their group will have to play two away games . It was Donegal last year . This is in no way fair and equal treatment . The three teams who will play in Dublin's group this season will be at a disadvantage as Congress has conferred preferential treatment on Dublin. It is profoundly dispiriting that Congress has once again enshrined unfair and unequal treatment in the operating rules of the competition. The GAA has operated a policy of filling Dublin's cup to overflowing for over a decade however up until last year Congress could not have been accused of undermining the integrity of football's All Ireland competition . That has now changed utterly. I feel the Rubicon has been crossed and it leaves me to wonder where this will stop .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 4934 - 2/27/19 11:19:08 PM
Had the Donegal motion been passed this would still be the case.
Had the Donegal motion been passed Dublin would still have 2 home games in the Super 8s.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 28/02/2019 10:37:19
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Replying To Greengrass: "We can argue about the semantics of the motion all we like . What has happened is that the Super 8s as a competition has been robbed of it's integrity . The fundamental principle that underpins any sporting competition is that the particular competition in question has it's integrity . By that I mean that every team that enters a sporting competition has the right to expect fair and equal treatment under the rules of the competition . The fact that the motion from Donegal has been rejected means that such is not now the case with The Super 8s. Dublin are now the beneficiaries of preferential treatment under the rules of the competition because they are the only team in the competition who will play two home games. As a direct result of this another team in their group will have to play two away games . It was Donegal last year . This is in no way fair and equal treatment . The three teams who will play in Dublin's group this season will be at a disadvantage as Congress has conferred preferential treatment on Dublin. It is profoundly dispiriting that Congress has once again enshrined unfair and unequal treatment in the operating rules of the competition. The GAA has operated a policy of filling Dublin's cup to overflowing for over a decade however up until last year Congress could not have been accused of undermining the integrity of football's All Ireland competition . That has now changed utterly. I feel the Rubicon has been crossed and it leaves me to wonder where this will stop ." There's a simple solution to all of this, whatever two teams qualify for Dublin's Super 8's Group should refuse point blank to field their teams unless Dublin is moved out of Croke Park for the neutral game. The other Super 8 teams should also refuse to play unless the integrity and equality of the competition, as you rightly characterise it, is guaranteed.
We'll see how long the money men hide behind their abacuses when faced with a farce of Dublin having to be awarded their 5th All-Ireland in a row because every other team in the Q-finals refuses to participate in protest.
I've come to the conclusion that the only thing now that will stop the madness of this preferential treatment of one county over the rest is for the others to refuse to field their inter-county teams in competitions unless the whole issue is fundamental addressed in a Special Congress.
In no other sport in the world, even the hyper-professionalism of soccer or NFL, would this situation ever be tolerated.
Can you imagine if at a club level in your own county one club was being treated in this way over the rest? You would have uproar.
Sorry Dubs but for far too long your success has been predicated on a determined Croke Park policy to ensure your cup runneth over and over.
Enough is enough!!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 28/02/2019 10:55:12
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The motion proposed was put forward with little thought. It was worded incorrectly. But this has to be revisited next year until the correct result comes to pass. One home game, one away and one neutral. It is the easiest thing to solve but the dinosaurs running the show can't grasp it.
Dublin didn't sell out Nowlan Park so people can spare me the nonsense about the thousands who will miss out.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 28/02/2019 11:08:13
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Replying To MesAmis: "They could have brought a motion in that would have taken out the Croke Pk game and replaced it with a neutral game. Seán Kelly has said as much.
Of course the wording mattered. Donegal brought a motion that would have given Dublin 2 home games, just like now! Why do ppl think that would be better than what we have now?
The GAA could still make plenty of revenue off of a neutral or away Dublin game in Clones, Cavan, Castlebay, Galway, Killarney, Limerick, Cork etc etc. So the old grab all shtick doesn't wash either.
This was an outright silly motion." Does MesAmis think if Donegals motion had been worded differently (ie) 1 game in croke park, 1 game away and 1 game in a neutral venue outside county Dublin that the GAA hierarchy would not have canvassed as hard to have the motion defeated or would they have been happy to let counties decide themselves without any pressure. You need to wake up and smell the coffee. If there is such a groundswell from the grassroots at this unfairness how come so many county boards voted against the motion unless there was massive pressure. I agree with MesAmis that the motion would still have given Dublin 2 home games, Croke Park and Parnell Park but there is an unfair playing field and no one in croke park seem to want to rectify this . Why?. I can only think revenue. If the circumstances were different and Dublin were being disadvantaged unfairly (ie) Kerry or Mayo were in their super 8's group and getting 2 home games would the Gaa hierarchy be as slow to try and make changes to get a level playing field. I doubt it.
Off.The.Fence (Donegal) - Posts: 13 - 28/02/2019 11:18:14
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Does MesAmis think if Donegals motion had been worded differently (ie) 1 game in croke park, 1 game away and 1 game in a neutral venue outside county Dublin that the GAA hierarchy would not have canvassed as hard to have the motion defeated or would they have been happy to let counties decide themselves without any pressure. You need to wake up and smell the coffee. If there is such a groundswell from the grassroots at this unfairness how come so many county boards voted against the motion unless there was massive pressure. I agree with MesAmis that the motion would still have given Dublin 2 home games, Croke Park and Parnell Park but there is an unfair playing field and no one in croke park seem to want to rectify this . Why?. I can only think revenue. If the circumstances were different and Dublin were being disadvantaged unfairly (ie) Kerry or Mayo were in their super 8's group and getting 2 home games would the Gaa hierarchy be as slow to try and make changes to get a level playing field. I doubt it.
Off.The.Fence (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 2/28/19 11:18:14 AM 2168850
If it was worded correctly it should have had a chance, as it was it was never going to pass because it didn't address the issue and was still unfair.
The GAA hierarchy have only as much power as they are given by the individual county boards. Kildare proved that last year.
Realistically the additional revenue of one game in Croke Park is not actually that much money when broken down and seen in the overall context, and that revenue wouldn't be entirely lost either seeing as there would still be a game played somewhere neutral that would bring in revenue. So even if they are so money crazed as we're all told it doesn't quite add up.
Dublin could made play every game away from home if the appetite is there for it but counties continue to not do this. It is ineptitude of the highest order imo.
The Super 8s had a flaw in them from day one regarding Dublin getting two home games, this was clear as day when it was enthusiastically voted in by the same county boards now giving out about it. Donegal's motion was clearly flawed from the beginning as it didn't address the problem of the unfairness.
It really should have been sorted out on Day 1. The county boards hold all the power if only they'd use it to their advantage.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 28/02/2019 12:10:53
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Replying To TheHermit: "There's a simple solution to all of this, whatever two teams qualify for Dublin's Super 8's Group should refuse point blank to field their teams unless Dublin is moved out of Croke Park for the neutral game. The other Super 8 teams should also refuse to play unless the integrity and equality of the competition, as you rightly characterise it, is guaranteed.
We'll see how long the money men hide behind their abacuses when faced with a farce of Dublin having to be awarded their 5th All-Ireland in a row because every other team in the Q-finals refuses to participate in protest.
I've come to the conclusion that the only thing now that will stop the madness of this preferential treatment of one county over the rest is for the others to refuse to field their inter-county teams in competitions unless the whole issue is fundamental addressed in a Special Congress.
In no other sport in the world, even the hyper-professionalism of soccer or NFL, would this situation ever be tolerated.
Can you imagine if at a club level in your own county one club was being treated in this way over the rest? You would have uproar.
Sorry Dubs but for far too long your success has been predicated on a determined Croke Park policy to ensure your cup runneth over and over.
Enough is enough!!" The simple solution was to bring a motion to congress that each team is guaranteed one home, one away and one neutral game during the Super 8s.
Or better yet not vote for the Super 8s in the first place when it was clear as day Dublin were to get two home games.
That seems to have been beyond any county board though, and there is nothing cloak and dagger about that.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 28/02/2019 12:26:58
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Replying To MesAmis: "The simple solution was to bring a motion to congress that each team is guaranteed one home, one away and one neutral game during the Super 8s.
Or better yet not vote for the Super 8s in the first place when it was clear as day Dublin were to get two home games.
That seems to have been beyond any county board though, and there is nothing cloak and dagger about that." Yep no arguments many County Boards are to blame for a lot of how the structure Super 8s is- its the disconnect between them and the rank and file GAA people on the ground in their own counties that last weekend clearly showed.
Was disgusted in Sean Kelly's contribution and would have expected better from him, but bare in mind he's also on the MEP election campaign at the minute.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 28/02/2019 12:43:17
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Replying To MesAmis: "Does MesAmis think if Donegals motion had been worded differently (ie) 1 game in croke park, 1 game away and 1 game in a neutral venue outside county Dublin that the GAA hierarchy would not have canvassed as hard to have the motion defeated or would they have been happy to let counties decide themselves without any pressure. You need to wake up and smell the coffee. If there is such a groundswell from the grassroots at this unfairness how come so many county boards voted against the motion unless there was massive pressure. I agree with MesAmis that the motion would still have given Dublin 2 home games, Croke Park and Parnell Park but there is an unfair playing field and no one in croke park seem to want to rectify this . Why?. I can only think revenue. If the circumstances were different and Dublin were being disadvantaged unfairly (ie) Kerry or Mayo were in their super 8's group and getting 2 home games would the Gaa hierarchy be as slow to try and make changes to get a level playing field. I doubt it.
Off.The.Fence (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 2/28/19 11:18:14 AM 2168850
If it was worded correctly it should have had a chance, as it was it was never going to pass because it didn't address the issue and was still unfair.
The GAA hierarchy have only as much power as they are given by the individual county boards. Kildare proved that last year.
Realistically the additional revenue of one game in Croke Park is not actually that much money when broken down and seen in the overall context, and that revenue wouldn't be entirely lost either seeing as there would still be a game played somewhere neutral that would bring in revenue. So even if they are so money crazed as we're all told it doesn't quite add up.
Dublin could made play every game away from home if the appetite is there for it but counties continue to not do this. It is ineptitude of the highest order imo.
The Super 8s had a flaw in them from day one regarding Dublin getting two home games, this was clear as day when it was enthusiastically voted in by the same county boards now giving out about it. Donegal's motion was clearly flawed from the beginning as it didn't address the problem of the unfairness.
It really should have been sorted out on Day 1. The county boards hold all the power if only they'd use it to their advantage." MesAmis are you dreaming. No matter how it was worded the hierarchy would have pressured counties to vote any motion down. All county boards should say which way they voted so each club and the grass roots can see if counties voted as they were directed by their clubs. If they don't what are they hiding?
Off.The.Fence (Donegal) - Posts: 13 - 28/02/2019 13:10:45
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Replying To Off.The.Fence: " Replying To MesAmis: "Does MesAmis think if Donegals motion had been worded differently (ie) 1 game in croke park, 1 game away and 1 game in a neutral venue outside county Dublin that the GAA hierarchy would not have canvassed as hard to have the motion defeated or would they have been happy to let counties decide themselves without any pressure. You need to wake up and smell the coffee. If there is such a groundswell from the grassroots at this unfairness how come so many county boards voted against the motion unless there was massive pressure. I agree with MesAmis that the motion would still have given Dublin 2 home games, Croke Park and Parnell Park but there is an unfair playing field and no one in croke park seem to want to rectify this . Why?. I can only think revenue. If the circumstances were different and Dublin were being disadvantaged unfairly (ie) Kerry or Mayo were in their super 8's group and getting 2 home games would the Gaa hierarchy be as slow to try and make changes to get a level playing field. I doubt it.
Off.The.Fence (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 2/28/19 11:18:14 AM 2168850
If it was worded correctly it should have had a chance, as it was it was never going to pass because it didn't address the issue and was still unfair.
The GAA hierarchy have only as much power as they are given by the individual county boards. Kildare proved that last year.
Realistically the additional revenue of one game in Croke Park is not actually that much money when broken down and seen in the overall context, and that revenue wouldn't be entirely lost either seeing as there would still be a game played somewhere neutral that would bring in revenue. So even if they are so money crazed as we're all told it doesn't quite add up.
Dublin could made play every game away from home if the appetite is there for it but counties continue to not do this. It is ineptitude of the highest order imo.
The Super 8s had a flaw in them from day one regarding Dublin getting two home games, this was clear as day when it was enthusiastically voted in by the same county boards now giving out about it. Donegal's motion was clearly flawed from the beginning as it didn't address the problem of the unfairness.
It really should have been sorted out on Day 1. The county boards hold all the power if only they'd use it to their advantage." MesAmis are you dreaming. No matter how it was worded the hierarchy would have pressured counties to vote any motion down. All county boards should say which way they voted so each club and the grass roots can see if counties voted as they were directed by their clubs. If they don't what are they hiding?"
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 28/02/2019 15:18:45
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Replying To TheFlaker: " Replying To Off.The.Fence: "[quote=MesAmis: "Does MesAmis think if Donegals motion had been worded differently (ie) 1 game in croke park, 1 game away and 1 game in a neutral venue outside county Dublin that the GAA hierarchy would not have canvassed as hard to have the motion defeated or would they have been happy to let counties decide themselves without any pressure. You need to wake up and smell the coffee. If there is such a groundswell from the grassroots at this unfairness how come so many county boards voted against the motion unless there was massive pressure. I agree with MesAmis that the motion would still have given Dublin 2 home games, Croke Park and Parnell Park but there is an unfair playing field and no one in croke park seem to want to rectify this . Why?. I can only think revenue. If the circumstances were different and Dublin were being disadvantaged unfairly (ie) Kerry or Mayo were in their super 8's group and getting 2 home games would the Gaa hierarchy be as slow to try and make changes to get a level playing field. I doubt it.
Off.The.Fence (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 2/28/19 11:18:14 AM 2168850
If it was worded correctly it should have had a chance, as it was it was never going to pass because it didn't address the issue and was still unfair.
The GAA hierarchy have only as much power as they are given by the individual county boards. Kildare proved that last year.
Realistically the additional revenue of one game in Croke Park is not actually that much money when broken down and seen in the overall context, and that revenue wouldn't be entirely lost either seeing as there would still be a game played somewhere neutral that would bring in revenue. So even if they are so money crazed as we're all told it doesn't quite add up.
Dublin could made play every game away from home if the appetite is there for it but counties continue to not do this. It is ineptitude of the highest order imo.
The Super 8s had a flaw in them from day one regarding Dublin getting two home games, this was clear as day when it was enthusiastically voted in by the same county boards now giving out about it. Donegal's motion was clearly flawed from the beginning as it didn't address the problem of the unfairness.
It really should have been sorted out on Day 1. The county boards hold all the power if only they'd use it to their advantage." MesAmis are you dreaming. No matter how it was worded the hierarchy would have pressured counties to vote any motion down. All county boards should say which way they voted so each club and the grass roots can see if counties voted as they were directed by their clubs. If they don't what are they hiding?"
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 28/02/2019 16:16:17
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Can Costello and the white knights from Dublin not come charging in and say "We want to distance ourselves from the cesspit that is the GAA administration and in the interest of fairness we will not nominate Croke Park as our home venue" ?
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 28/02/2019 16:34:07
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Hearsay, personal assumption/ conjecture / baseless conspiracy theory overload!!
An awful lot of energy being spent on a topic that its fairly obvious that many on this thread have very little knowledge about yet (see above descriptiveness) some are preaching as if they are speaking undeniable fact.
It's a very poorly administration gaff that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Donegal's wording aside.. at least they did something unlike the rest of yiz.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 28/02/2019 16:59:07
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Replying To MesAmis: "The simple solution was to bring a motion to congress that each team is guaranteed one home, one away and one neutral game during the Super 8s.
Or better yet not vote for the Super 8s in the first place when it was clear as day Dublin were to get two home games.
That seems to have been beyond any county board though, and there is nothing cloak and dagger about that." This is very true, the end of this has not been reached and I do see change occurring sooner rather than later. Meath or Kildare did not agree to the motion due to possibly having to nominate Croke Park as a home venue in the next couple of years as their own grounds are redeveloped but it's not the picking of a home ground it's the third game the "neutral" game that's the issue and in reality it shouldn't need debate, it shouldn't need a motion, the CCCC if they had any fairness or gumption at all would fix Dublin's third game away from Croker, it's so simple and Dublin wouldn't argue one bit. Clones, Castlebar, Portlaoise, Thurles, Limerick etc etc all capable of holding the Dubs but yet the suits won't do it, they will ignore the obvious solution and carry on as usual. The one really disappointing thing has been the reaction of the hierarchy of Dublin GAA who are believing that they are genuinely a cut above everyone else right now, the response of their chairman to the notion of building a new home ground for Dublin smacked of pure arrogance and as for Costello, well his arrogance has been known for some time. Both men are creating a poor image of Dublin in my view and are doing a disservice to the genuine Dublin supporter who is worth his salt to the GAA
Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 28/02/2019 17:34:15
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Replying To Greenfield: "Can Costello and the white knights from Dublin not come charging in and say "We want to distance ourselves from the cesspit that is the GAA administration and in the interest of fairness we will not nominate Croke Park as our home venue" ?" No !
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 28/02/2019 17:48:51
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Replying To Off.The.Fence: " Replying To MesAmis: "Does MesAmis think if Donegals motion had been worded differently (ie) 1 game in croke park, 1 game away and 1 game in a neutral venue outside county Dublin that the GAA hierarchy would not have canvassed as hard to have the motion defeated or would they have been happy to let counties decide themselves without any pressure. You need to wake up and smell the coffee. If there is such a groundswell from the grassroots at this unfairness how come so many county boards voted against the motion unless there was massive pressure. I agree with MesAmis that the motion would still have given Dublin 2 home games, Croke Park and Parnell Park but there is an unfair playing field and no one in croke park seem to want to rectify this . Why?. I can only think revenue. If the circumstances were different and Dublin were being disadvantaged unfairly (ie) Kerry or Mayo were in their super 8's group and getting 2 home games would the Gaa hierarchy be as slow to try and make changes to get a level playing field. I doubt it.
Off.The.Fence (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 2/28/19 11:18:14 AM 2168850
If it was worded correctly it should have had a chance, as it was it was never going to pass because it didn't address the issue and was still unfair.
The GAA hierarchy have only as much power as they are given by the individual county boards. Kildare proved that last year.
Realistically the additional revenue of one game in Croke Park is not actually that much money when broken down and seen in the overall context, and that revenue wouldn't be entirely lost either seeing as there would still be a game played somewhere neutral that would bring in revenue. So even if they are so money crazed as we're all told it doesn't quite add up.
Dublin could made play every game away from home if the appetite is there for it but counties continue to not do this. It is ineptitude of the highest order imo.
The Super 8s had a flaw in them from day one regarding Dublin getting two home games, this was clear as day when it was enthusiastically voted in by the same county boards now giving out about it. Donegal's motion was clearly flawed from the beginning as it didn't address the problem of the unfairness.
It really should have been sorted out on Day 1. The county boards hold all the power if only they'd use it to their advantage." MesAmis are you dreaming. No matter how it was worded the hierarchy would have pressured counties to vote any motion down. All county boards should say which way they voted so each club and the grass roots can see if counties voted as they were directed by their clubs. If they don't what are they hiding?"
It literally couldn't have been worded worse if you're honest.
It's a cop out to say that it doesn't matter that the wording what it was always going to voted down. You can't criticise someone for not doing what you want when you don't tell them what you want. That's what this amounts to. We can't really criticise Congress for not making Dublin play one home, one away and one neutral game in the Super 8s when we never asked Congress to do that!
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 28/02/2019 18:13:10
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There is no argument the fact is how can your home venue and a neutral playing ground be the same venue? Forget the revenue issue there are a number of grounds that could accommodate Dublin v whoever in the Suprt 8's. Fairness that's all.
noelnyc (Kerry) - Posts: 82 - 28/02/2019 19:38:17
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Replying To noelnyc: "There is no argument the fact is how can your home venue and a neutral playing ground be the same venue? Forget the revenue issue there are a number of grounds that could accommodate Dublin v whoever in the Suprt 8's. Fairness that's all." Agreed completely.
It's baffling how it has been let, by everyone, come to this.
Revenue is a red herring as it actually wouldn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 28/02/2019 20:58:44
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Replying To MesAmis: "Agreed completely.
It's baffling how it has been let, by everyone, come to this.
Revenue is a red herring as it actually wouldn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things." I agree completely with both of you .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 28/02/2019 21:35:07
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