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Just leave this here. Some interesting breakdowns on the population vs GDF this year.
Just one measure I might do a registered player breakdown when I get a chance.
Monaghan GDF 124.000, Population of Monaghan 60.483 2.05 per head.
Dublin GDF 1.3 mill, population 1.34 mill, ratio = 97 cent per head.
Kerry GDF 197.600 euro, population of Kerry 147.000, ratio = 1.34 euro per head.
Mayo GDF 134.29 euro, population of Mayo, 130.5k, ratio = 1.02 euro per head.
Tyrone GDF 119.000 euro, population 177.9k = 66 cent per head
Galway GDF 184.4k euro, population 258.0k = 71cent per head.
Donegal GDF 130.2k euro, population 159.1k = 81 cent per head.
Kildare GDF 341.3k euro, population 222.5k = 1.53 euro per head
Roscommon GDF, 146k euro, population 66.5k = 2.2 euro per head.
Cork GDF, 249k euro, population 542k = 45 cent per head.
Meath GDF, 367.4k, population 195.0 = 1.88 euro per head.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/02/2019 20:16:51
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Source:
GDF: https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/3725588/dublin-gaa-development-funding-1-3m/
Population: last census.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/02/2019 20:22:21
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Replying To TheUsername: "Just leave this here. Some interesting breakdowns on the population vs GDF this year.
Just one measure I might do a registered player breakdown when I get a chance.
Monaghan GDF 124.000, Population of Monaghan 60.483 2.05 per head.
Dublin GDF 1.3 mill, population 1.34 mill, ratio = 97 cent per head.
Kerry GDF 197.600 euro, population of Kerry 147.000, ratio = 1.34 euro per head.
Mayo GDF 134.29 euro, population of Mayo, 130.5k, ratio = 1.02 euro per head.
Tyrone GDF 119.000 euro, population 177.9k = 66 cent per head
Galway GDF 184.4k euro, population 258.0k = 71cent per head.
Donegal GDF 130.2k euro, population 159.1k = 81 cent per head.
Kildare GDF 341.3k euro, population 222.5k = 1.53 euro per head
Roscommon GDF, 146k euro, population 66.5k = 2.2 euro per head.
Cork GDF, 249k euro, population 542k = 45 cent per head.
Meath GDF, 367.4k, population 195.0 = 1.88 euro per head." That population argument is a complete misnomer.
So the central council are funding counties regardless of their registered members?? Absolute rubbish.
westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 17/02/2019 20:35:13
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Replying To westkerry: "That population argument is a complete misnomer.
So the central council are funding counties regardless of their registered members?? Absolute rubbish." Why would GDF, be used for registered players?
You are aware of the purpose of GDF?
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/02/2019 21:21:57
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Replying To westkerry: "That population argument is a complete misnomer.
So the central council are funding counties regardless of their registered members?? Absolute rubbish." Present your figures a chara to dispute the ones I've posted, from your methodology?
I'm not sure I can accept your point seriously, just as a narrative/dogma without a concrete comparative breakdown to back up your comment.
I want to believe you, I really do.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/02/2019 21:26:42
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Replying To TheUsername: "Why would GDF, be used for registered players?
You are aware of the purpose of GDF?" Why would development funding be based on individuals who will never play the game ?
Once you are a registered GAA member of a club then fine but to base it on population then thats just plain wrong.
If that is the case i would love to see how that money is spent on non playing or participating people.
As a matter of Interest what is the funding for Antrim for example where the population is 615k Vrs Dublins 565k approx.
Are Antrim getting the same as Dublin??
westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 17/02/2019 21:36:36
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Replying To Joxer: "How many games did Kerry play to win those 4 in a rows? I'd say Dublin played more championship games in 2018 then Kerry did to win one of those 4 in a rows. They once won an AI after playing 3 matches, one being the final of a hurling province. Imagine that!!" Dubs have one, maybe two meaningful games per year and always at home on their own turf. The rest are turkey shoots against hopeless opposition. Number of games means nothing.
And cork have always been a strong football county. Leinster is much easier to win now than Munster would have been back then.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 17/02/2019 21:41:33
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Apologies my population number was incorrect in my last post. That was an error on my part.
westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 17/02/2019 21:47:28
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So if we use the Shane Mangan graph per regusgestered player and a Dublin vs Kerry analysis, that's the one Ewen uses for his articles and posts on here.
Population of Kerry 147.000, registered players 14.750, so that a ratio, 1 in 10 people in Kerry are a registered player, they still receive, 1.34 per head per population. If you do 197.6k, into the 14.000 registered thats 13.44.
Population of Dublin is 1.345, Dublin has 39k registered players (just let that sink in compared to population). 97 cent per head of population. If you do the ratio it's 0.03007692307 per registered player.
So there are 1.36 million people in Dublin who are not registered players. My belief is that funding is based on a hybrid, of the population per head and black hole of registered players. For example if the GAA see a big population center like Dublin at 1.345 million, and 39k registered playing, it simply has to act. That's before looking at the strategic variables of Dublin for the Organisation.
I think people have completely the wrong end of the stick in this debate and look at solely through inter county tribalism the Gaa's objective and its Methodolgy are about promoting and playing of Gaelic games and the All Ireland senior county championship is only one aspect of that and far from the most important.
Dublin get extra money by way of the sheer volume of numbers they have to contend with, but when you break it down like I have each county gets an amount similar to the context of their own volume of numbers. Sharing money equally between counties,/clubs does not hold water. Many rural clubs find it difficult in fielding 1 team , should they really get the same funding as Kilmacud Crokes who can field 180 teams of a week.
Also context is different, take Kerry and Dublin. Dublin are at a stage of development where a priority has to be to grow Galiec Games amongst the 1.36 not involved in Gaielic games. That is not an issue in Kerry with 1 in 10 playing, they are at a different stage of development. Priorities for them are harnessing those high % numbers. They haven't been not supported in this away from GDF, 1 million by the GAA for Curran's and 1 mill by the Munster Council. Also a 7 mill investment by the ISF in IT Tralee in the new facilities there. That's on top of GDF funding. Rightly so. Dublin aren't anyway close to achieving anything like that in terms of playing numbers or developing that infrastructure. Different counties have different needs, one size or pot for funding doesn't reflect funding, or the context or equityof that funding, nor should as different counties have different needs. Obviously games development is a massive priority for Dublin, it might not be elsewhere.
Looking at Ewen figures are like reading 350 mill for the nhs on a brexit bus, there is much more richness and context, funds, allocation, needs and strategy to his articles and posts on here! : D
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/02/2019 22:26:25
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Replying To westkerry: "Why would development funding be based on individuals who will never play the game ?
Once you are a registered GAA member of a club then fine but to base it on population then thats just plain wrong.
If that is the case i would love to see how that money is spent on non playing or participating people.
As a matter of Interest what is the funding for Antrim for example where the population is 615k Vrs Dublins 565k approx.
Are Antrim getting the same as Dublin??" GDF is to promote participation in Galiec games, if intercounty teams are using GDF for their intercounty teams they are in soapy bubble.
I think GPO are allowed organize blitzez in a local club, linked to the school etc, but if yer are funding the like of sports sciences at county level through your GDF, it will not end well.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/02/2019 22:30:13
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Replying To westkerry: "Why would development funding be based on individuals who will never play the game ?
Once you are a registered GAA member of a club then fine but to base it on population then thats just plain wrong.
If that is the case i would love to see how that money is spent on non playing or participating people.
As a matter of Interest what is the funding for Antrim for example where the population is 615k Vrs Dublins 565k approx.
Are Antrim getting the same as Dublin??" It's used to attract people to play Gaelic games, I.e. the non playing. Cul Camps, Underage Blitez's at the local club. The GPO goes into the school and takes the kids for GAA sessions, he provides info and a pathway to their local clubs, school competitions, having a GAA team in the school etc. That's the unposting population we are talking about.
All Dublins are up online, exactly what they use GDF for.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/02/2019 22:34:22
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Replying To achara: "It's funny, people give out about dublin gettin so much money and the dubs come back with the size of population, but when people say about dublin winnig because of population then the dubs come back with population has nothing to do with it!!" It's probably because Dublin's pooulation probably didn't just get big in 2011. It was much bigger than the population of other counties before then yet Dublin went over a decade and a half without a Sam. It's funny how people never brought up the pooulation and money matters when they were losing games.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 18/02/2019 08:58:11
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Replying To Jack_Goff: "Yes I absolutely want funding changed and now I don't believe it equals Sam's. But increasing funding for other counties instead of Dublin over time will Inevitably lead to other counties narrowing the gap. Maybe a team would beat Dublin in leinster once every 5 years instead of the current trend that's looking like 1 in 20 years.
And that thing about Dublin hurlers is absolute BS. Dublin hurling has received massive funding over the ears and it's definitely working. You are very competitive and I believe you will make an all Ireland in the next 10 years. Without 20 years of funding in Dublin hurling I believe you'd get nowhere near. And it's great to see. Obviously I don't want your hurling to keep getting such funds if you ever become the strongest team but I've no problem them using it to get you to the top. If only they wanted counties like Meath or Kildare to get to the top in football but alas they seem happy with a 1 team province.
@the other poster. Well said. The 31 other counties are gutless by not standing up and spreading the funds out more. They certainly don't represent the people who support their counties." Ok so you now say that it shouldn't be split on pooulation, Meath receive more funding per head of pooulation than any county, but then tell us how it should be split. Lets's take Dublin with a pooulation of 1.4m (134 clubs) and Leitrim with population of 32K (24 clubs) as examples perhaps. There is clearly a need for more clubs and games participation in Dublin given it's population. How much funding should both get for games development?
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 18/02/2019 09:05:56
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Replying To Joxer: "How many games did Kerry play to win those 4 in a rows? I'd say Dublin played more championship games in 2018 then Kerry did to win one of those 4 in a rows. They once won an AI after playing 3 matches, one being the final of a hurling province. Imagine that!!" Kerry have 37 All Irelands . Dublin have 28 . Dublin competed in every one of those 37 All Irelands that Kerry won and were not good enough to stop them . The allocation of development grants is entirely disproportionate and needs to be reviewed. That is only the start of it. Bertie's government allocated €3million to Dublin GAA . You then look at the sponsorship Dublin GAA are able to generate. The team is magnificent but the financial advantages are huge.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 18/02/2019 09:42:41
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Replying To Greengrass: "Kerry have 37 All Irelands . Dublin have 28 . Dublin competed in every one of those 37 All Irelands that Kerry won and were not good enough to stop them . The allocation of development grants is entirely disproportionate and needs to be reviewed. That is only the start of it. Bertie's government allocated €3million to Dublin GAA . You then look at the sponsorship Dublin GAA are able to generate. The team is magnificent but the financial advantages are huge." Yes but give us your proposal for "fair" grant distribution and the logic behind said proposal. If it seems honest and fair the chances are that most Dubs, myself included, would support it. It's all relative though isn't it. Look at the sponsorship that Dublin generate but compared to what? I'm sure Mayo's sponsorship deal is more lucrative than Carlow's. Should Mayo have restricted funding as a result? No. It's the fruits of their own work. If a team is successful then sponsorship generation is easy. If they're not it's difficult. If Dublin start losing again, and they will, do you think AIG are going to be crawling to them on their hands and knees begging the DCB to allow them to sponsor the team? Dublin is a big place and it requires big funds. The challenge is coming up with an equitable means of distributing central funding. If the current system is not equitable then put forward an equitable proposal and let's hear it.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 18/02/2019 10:59:13
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Replying To Joxer: "Yes but give us your proposal for "fair" grant distribution and the logic behind said proposal. If it seems honest and fair the chances are that most Dubs, myself included, would support it. It's all relative though isn't it. Look at the sponsorship that Dublin generate but compared to what? I'm sure Mayo's sponsorship deal is more lucrative than Carlow's. Should Mayo have restricted funding as a result? No. It's the fruits of their own work. If a team is successful then sponsorship generation is easy. If they're not it's difficult. If Dublin start losing again, and they will, do you think AIG are going to be crawling to them on their hands and knees begging the DCB to allow them to sponsor the team? Dublin is a big place and it requires big funds. The challenge is coming up with an equitable means of distributing central funding. If the current system is not equitable then put forward an equitable proposal and let's hear it." Build your own 30000 seat stadium with floodlights and maintain it.
Build your own centre of excellence
Split your massive amounts of sponsorship money.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 18/02/2019 12:14:14
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Replying To The_Fridge: "Build your own 30000 seat stadium with floodlights and maintain it.
Build your own centre of excellence
Split your massive amounts of sponsorship money." Split our sponsorship money with who, Tyrone??? Do you not think that we don't want to build our own 30,000 seater stadium? The GAA would then be left with a white elephant I suppose. What would they do with it, use it for the ploughing championships and Garth Brooks concerts maybe? Centres of excellence are for pansies. Haven't seen much "excellence" from those who have them. We use Dollymount strand for the hard work. Ye can keep yer centres of excellence. :)
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 18/02/2019 13:18:46
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Replying To westkerry: "Why would development funding be based on individuals who will never play the game ?
Once you are a registered GAA member of a club then fine but to base it on population then thats just plain wrong.
If that is the case i would love to see how that money is spent on non playing or participating people.
As a matter of Interest what is the funding for Antrim for example where the population is 615k Vrs Dublins 565k approx.
Are Antrim getting the same as Dublin??" Co Dublin has about twice the population of Antrim. However they get almost £18m in the period covered by the stats compared to just over £1m for Antrim - around 17 times the amount. Yep, it is all down to population......
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/02/2019 15:25:48
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https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-spends-record-11-1m-on-coaching-and-games-development/
The Games Development outlay funded 345 coaches working in more than 600 schools coaching 360,000 children.
35 new coaches were deployed across Louth, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow, and Wexford as part of the new East Leinster Coaching Programme
I think these conversations tend to be a bit fuzzy on facts. A big 1 being that Dublin doesn't even get close to having 48% of development money being spent on it.
€1.3m of the total €9.6m in the accounts.
Maybe Dublin were getting a disproportionate amount in years gone by.
It's not as high as 48% of funds by the way and never has been. That number gets mistakenly trotted out as it only considers money paid directly to county boards and doesn't factor in that GDOs outside of Dublin are paid by the Provincial councils not the county boards.
The GAA does seem to be trying to get a better balance. It's not as though they can go back in time and reallocate the resources.
It's also hard to scale back on current commitments. The money is spent on people, it's their jobs. Money couldn't be scaled back further without redeploying GDOs geographically or by letting people go.
What more can the association actually do not that it isn't already doing.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 18/02/2019 17:23:23
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Replying To Whammo86: "https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-spends-record-11-1m-on-coaching-and-games-development/
The Games Development outlay funded 345 coaches working in more than 600 schools coaching 360,000 children.
35 new coaches were deployed across Louth, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow, and Wexford as part of the new East Leinster Coaching Programme
I think these conversations tend to be a bit fuzzy on facts. A big 1 being that Dublin doesn't even get close to having 48% of development money being spent on it.
€1.3m of the total €9.6m in the accounts.
Maybe Dublin were getting a disproportionate amount in years gone by.
It's not as high as 48% of funds by the way and never has been. That number gets mistakenly trotted out as it only considers money paid directly to county boards and doesn't factor in that GDOs outside of Dublin are paid by the Provincial councils not the county boards.
The GAA does seem to be trying to get a better balance. It's not as though they can go back in time and reallocate the resources.
It's also hard to scale back on current commitments. The money is spent on people, it's their jobs. Money couldn't be scaled back further without redeploying GDOs geographically or by letting people go.
What more can the association actually do not that it isn't already doing." Something that undermines the whole kit and kaboodle, is that 1 mill of Dublins funding comes from the ISC to promote Gaelic games in Dublin.
Essentially what that means if the ISC, decided not to give grant grant in the morning, the GAA are left holding the bag of the shortfall in Dublin funding.
Or to put another way, the GAA fund .3 % of Dublin GDF funding, the ISC the rest. So in actual fact Dublin arent really taking that much money proportionally out of the GAA in terms of the balance of scale. If Dublin lost 1 mill ISC grant, then it likely other counties would suffer in terms of their own funding and the hits that would cause.
Essentially take 1 mill out of Dublins over all GDF every year since 2004, and you see the real fianncail contribution of the GAA to Dublin GDF funding.
Worthwhile keeping in mind when people talk about redistributing GDF, Dublin proportionally take very little out of GAA central funds for GDF.
Something else worth noting and that is i believe there has been a growth of the Dublin model of the 50/50 split in GPO and coaches across Leinster, great to see.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/02/2019 17:41:26
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