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It was great to hear Eoghan Ban Gallagher's comments recently about teams needing to attack to beat Dublin.
I don't agree with my own county's motion about moving Dublin out of Croke Park for the Super 8's here or there. Dublin are hard to beat no matter where they play so it'd be all the more sweeter if/when a team can beat them in GAA HQ.

I've said it before - I think teams need goals to beat Dublin. Dublin probably average about 20 points a game so it's asking a lot for a team to out-point Dublin. But if a team has a bit of adventure about them and can plunder 3 or more goals then it changes the dynamic big time. Has this current Dublin team ever found themselves 7 or 8 points down? As great a team as they are it'd be interesting to see how they'd react when faced with a situation like that.

Goals are obviously harder to come by but if, as Eoghan says, a team can get on the front foot and strike at Dublin then it might be the only realistic way to beat them. The days of sitting back en-masse and hoping to counter attack are numbered. Dublin will be patient and eventually just beat you.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 25/01/2019 10:17:04    2159412

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It's not rocket science is it? Rochford influence on donegal already? In fairness team like Mayo and they have done, Donegal, Tyrone, Galway, Kerry etc should never be afraid to go man to man on Dublin but I can see why so called "lesser" teams might employ a defensive blanket for fear of getting trashed.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 25/01/2019 10:21:20    2159415

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Replying To yew_tree:  "It's not rocket science is it? Rochford influence on donegal already? In fairness team like Mayo and they have done, Donegal, Tyrone, Galway, Kerry etc should never be afraid to go man to man on Dublin but I can see why so called "lesser" teams might employ a defensive blanket for fear of getting trashed."
Man on man is not what these teams do.

It's about pressure up the field. They'll still defend zonally as it makes sense to do so.

They won't sit back though. It should be clear as day now that you can't soak up pressure against Dublin and look to catch them on the counter. I think Tyrone in 2017 was the real death knell for that strategy for any aspiring All Ireland champion.

Tyrone and Donegal changed their style last year and it wasn't really enough to trouble Dublin but I'd say that's a work in progress whereas Tyrone in 2017 had perfected the quick counter game plan and still got stuffed when it came to Dublin.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 25/01/2019 11:46:31    2159434

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Replying To yew_tree:  "It's not rocket science is it? Rochford influence on donegal already? In fairness team like Mayo and they have done, Donegal, Tyrone, Galway, Kerry etc should never be afraid to go man to man on Dublin but I can see why so called "lesser" teams might employ a defensive blanket for fear of getting trashed."
I wouldn't say Rochford has come in and changed the mindset. There were definite signs last year that Donegal were more offensive in their thinking. I'd like to think that Rochford would be augmenting that approach. Given that he is the only manager who has come close to beating this Dublin team since 2014 it can only be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 25/01/2019 12:12:51    2159442

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Man on man is not what these teams do.

It's about pressure up the field. They'll still defend zonally as it makes sense to do so.

They won't sit back though. It should be clear as day now that you can't soak up pressure against Dublin and look to catch them on the counter. I think Tyrone in 2017 was the real death knell for that strategy for any aspiring All Ireland champion.

Tyrone and Donegal changed their style last year and it wasn't really enough to trouble Dublin but I'd say that's a work in progress whereas Tyrone in 2017 had perfected the quick counter game plan and still got stuffed when it came to Dublin."
The difference is an injury free Donegal, Kerry and a well rested Mayo have the forwards to potentially finish off any game plan against Dublin over the next year or two. As seen in the All Ireland final last year Dublin are happy to let Tyrone bring any system they want, as they will eventually have the attacking style to find space. Dublin know that Tyrone don't have the forward players capable of beating them during this Championship era. The only team capable of stopping Dublin at the minute is Mayo who play an attacking brand of football - the amount of effort this Mayo team put into the last five years caught them in 2018 but I expect them to have another fierce battle with Dublin in 2019! If that is the case a point or two will seperate them! Tyrone's style won't get within 5 points of Dublin which proves the point of teams having to play an attacking brand of football with good forwards to stand any chance.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 25/01/2019 12:33:22    2159454

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Replying To sam1884:  "The difference is an injury free Donegal, Kerry and a well rested Mayo have the forwards to potentially finish off any game plan against Dublin over the next year or two. As seen in the All Ireland final last year Dublin are happy to let Tyrone bring any system they want, as they will eventually have the attacking style to find space. Dublin know that Tyrone don't have the forward players capable of beating them during this Championship era. The only team capable of stopping Dublin at the minute is Mayo who play an attacking brand of football - the amount of effort this Mayo team put into the last five years caught them in 2018 but I expect them to have another fierce battle with Dublin in 2019! If that is the case a point or two will seperate them! Tyrone's style won't get within 5 points of Dublin which proves the point of teams having to play an attacking brand of football with good forwards to stand any chance."
Mayo play an attacking brand of football in the main, but they played very defensively in the games against Dublin under Rochford in my opinion and looked to the counter, that was against their normal way of setting up and approaching games, just my opinion mind.

They say if you stay around long enough, you will see everything come full circle. Wasn't the reason why teams went down the defensive system route against Dublin was because when teams went man for man and played openly Dublin were running riot in Gavins first couple of years? The perceived right approach then was to come up with a defensive system.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/01/2019 13:20:04    2159468

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Replying To sam1884:  "The difference is an injury free Donegal, Kerry and a well rested Mayo have the forwards to potentially finish off any game plan against Dublin over the next year or two. As seen in the All Ireland final last year Dublin are happy to let Tyrone bring any system they want, as they will eventually have the attacking style to find space. Dublin know that Tyrone don't have the forward players capable of beating them during this Championship era. The only team capable of stopping Dublin at the minute is Mayo who play an attacking brand of football - the amount of effort this Mayo team put into the last five years caught them in 2018 but I expect them to have another fierce battle with Dublin in 2019! If that is the case a point or two will seperate them! Tyrone's style won't get within 5 points of Dublin which proves the point of teams having to play an attacking brand of football with good forwards to stand any chance."
They were beat by 3 in the super 8's.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 25/01/2019 13:40:33    2159472

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "It was great to hear Eoghan Ban Gallagher's comments recently about teams needing to attack to beat Dublin.
I don't agree with my own county's motion about moving Dublin out of Croke Park for the Super 8's here or there. Dublin are hard to beat no matter where they play so it'd be all the more sweeter if/when a team can beat them in GAA HQ.

I've said it before - I think teams need goals to beat Dublin. Dublin probably average about 20 points a game so it's asking a lot for a team to out-point Dublin. But if a team has a bit of adventure about them and can plunder 3 or more goals then it changes the dynamic big time. Has this current Dublin team ever found themselves 7 or 8 points down? As great a team as they are it'd be interesting to see how they'd react when faced with a situation like that.

Goals are obviously harder to come by but if, as Eoghan says, a team can get on the front foot and strike at Dublin then it might be the only realistic way to beat them. The days of sitting back en-masse and hoping to counter attack are numbered. Dublin will be patient and eventually just beat you."
Has this current Dublin team ever found themselves 7 or 8 points down? As great a team as they are it'd be interesting to see how they'd react when faced with a situation like that.

not 7 or 8 but here you go

Kerry Semi 2013 - 6 points down...won the game
Mayo Semi 2015 replay - 5 points down....won the game
Kerry Semi 2016 - 5 points down at HT....won the game
Tyrone Final 2018 - 5-1 down after 15 mins....won the game

To name a few....

Some of these games we went on to win by 5, 6 and 7 points too. Add in the games were the match has been in the melting pot going into injury time and still every time we find a way to pull it out of the bag. IMO this Dublin team just dont know when their beat....and its bloody great as a supporter i must admit ;)

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 25/01/2019 15:04:37    2159488

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Good stats there. Mayo really should have sealed the deal at least once but as you say, Dublin have been a magnificent team and always seem to find a way. I suppose the main point of my OP was at least Donegal players appear to be focusing on ways to beat Dublin on the pitch and not whining about resources, money, facilities and bla bla bla.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 25/01/2019 15:41:35    2159494

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Good stats there. Mayo really should have sealed the deal at least once but as you say, Dublin have been a magnificent team and always seem to find a way. I suppose the main point of my OP was at least Donegal players appear to be focusing on ways to beat Dublin on the pitch and not whining about resources, money, facilities and bla bla bla."
and believe me that's the right frame of mind to be in if you want ot have any chances of beating this Dublin team. If prior to a game your focusing all your energy on all these perceived disadvantages such as money, resources etc etc well then IMO your already beat before a ball has been thrown in. Its sort of like getting your excuses in early

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 25/01/2019 16:04:53    2159504

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Has this current Dublin team ever found themselves 7 or 8 points down? As great a team as they are it'd be interesting to see how they'd react when faced with a situation like that.

not 7 or 8 but here you go

Kerry Semi 2013 - 6 points down...won the game
Mayo Semi 2015 replay - 5 points down....won the game
Kerry Semi 2016 - 5 points down at HT....won the game
Tyrone Final 2018 - 5-1 down after 15 mins....won the game

To name a few....

Some of these games we went on to win by 5, 6 and 7 points too. Add in the games were the match has been in the melting pot going into injury time and still every time we find a way to pull it out of the bag. IMO this Dublin team just dont know when their beat....and its bloody great as a supporter i must admit ;)"
The one that stands out for me in terms of turnaround was the league semi finals against Cork in 2014. They were 10 points down at one point in the 2nd half and won by 7. You could argue its only the league but a 17 point turnaround against the team that topped division 1 is noteworthy.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 25/01/2019 17:07:45    2159512

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "and believe me that's the right frame of mind to be in if you want ot have any chances of beating this Dublin team. If prior to a game your focusing all your energy on all these perceived disadvantages such as money, resources etc etc well then IMO your already beat before a ball has been thrown in. Its sort of like getting your excuses in early"
I'd say no serious team thinks of those things. No serious team would want Dublin split in 2 or moans about the money going to Dublin.

Any serious player wants a cut at this Dublin and would relish the chance at knocking them off their perch.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 25/01/2019 18:06:21    2159524

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "Has this current Dublin team ever found themselves 7 or 8 points down? As great a team as they are it'd be interesting to see how they'd react when faced with a situation like that.

not 7 or 8 but here you go

Kerry Semi 2013 - 6 points down...won the game
Mayo Semi 2015 replay - 5 points down....won the game
Kerry Semi 2016 - 5 points down at HT....won the game
Tyrone Final 2018 - 5-1 down after 15 mins....won the game

To name a few....

Some of these games we went on to win by 5, 6 and 7 points too. Add in the games were the match has been in the melting pot going into injury time and still every time we find a way to pull it out of the bag. IMO this Dublin team just dont know when their beat....and its bloody great as a supporter i must admit ;)"
Kerry we're 6 points down against Mayo in the 2014 semifinal drawn game and came back to draw and should have won it in the end with the last free kick.

We were also 7 points down to Mayo in the replay in limerick and we got it back and went 3-4 up and Mayo got it back to draw with us and they should have won it in the end with a last minute free kick and we closed it out in injury time.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/01/2019 19:28:34    2159542

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Good stats there. Mayo really should have sealed the deal at least once but as you say, Dublin have been a magnificent team and always seem to find a way. I suppose the main point of my OP was at least Donegal players appear to be focusing on ways to beat Dublin on the pitch and not whining about resources, money, facilities and bla bla bla."
I don't think you'd hear many players from any intercounty team giving out about those advantages that Dublin have, but that doesn't mean those advantages don't exist and that they shouldn't be talked about.

Fair play to yer county board bringing the proposal of getting Dublin on the road for 2 super 8 games as it's only fair at the end of the day.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/01/2019 19:34:38    2159543

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Good stats there. Mayo really should have sealed the deal at least once but as you say, Dublin have been a magnificent team and always seem to find a way. I suppose the main point of my OP was at least Donegal players appear to be focusing on ways to beat Dublin on the pitch and not whining about resources, money, facilities and bla bla bla."
The usual suspects will raise this again before long and it's purely about deflecting from their own shortcomings. Kerry have won 4 under 18 and 1 under 17 championships on the trot and not a word about how this can be allowed to continue.
I've already stated on another thread that I think it is a huge ask for Dublin this year to do the 5 in a row considering that all the odds are against it.
The only reason Mayo probably haven't managed to get over the line is that they haven't had the up front firepower and relied on frees to stay in touch for the most part. At this stage it's really the only option left as everyone has bought into this reliance on defensive tactics which almost always fails.
Of course Dublin will lose one day but you can bet it won't be to a side who are largely reliant on defensive tactics.
Mayo ,will however I believe, go close again and Donegal , Kerry and Tyrone will be our biggest threat with Galway and Monaghan in with a shout as well .
Here's hoping for a great years football and hurling and who knows it could be one to remember.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 25/01/2019 20:22:02    2159553

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When Mayo went man to man they had Dublin on the rack , however they were not able to keep it going for the full game and, they took of some of their key players off at the end, something that should never be done (you need your best players on the field at the end of the match). How can any team expect to beat Dublin by allowing them a free kick out every time -dum football! You need to attack and pressurise Dublin all the time and be able to take your chances- all this is easier said than done.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 25/01/2019 20:42:16    2159558

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "They were beat by 3 in the super 8's."
A home game in Omagh that Tyrone still never looked like winning, I never feel Dublin are at full tilt when they play Tyrone, they can save some energy and still win comfortably. In the tussels with Mayo before last year that was not the case, the Dubs had to play to their maximum to beat them. If Mayo can get back to 2017 standards after their rest we could have some great games, it would be good to see Dublin tested.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 25/01/2019 20:48:08    2159562

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "The usual suspects will raise this again before long and it's purely about deflecting from their own shortcomings. Kerry have won 4 under 18 and 1 under 17 championships on the trot and not a word about how this can be allowed to continue.
I've already stated on another thread that I think it is a huge ask for Dublin this year to do the 5 in a row considering that all the odds are against it.
The only reason Mayo probably haven't managed to get over the line is that they haven't had the up front firepower and relied on frees to stay in touch for the most part. At this stage it's really the only option left as everyone has bought into this reliance on defensive tactics which almost always fails.
Of course Dublin will lose one day but you can bet it won't be to a side who are largely reliant on defensive tactics.
Mayo ,will however I believe, go close again and Donegal , Kerry and Tyrone will be our biggest threat with Galway and Monaghan in with a shout as well .
Here's hoping for a great years football and hurling and who knows it could be one to remember."
I'm not going to going to get into it again dubh linn ye all know my thoughts on the matter and there is nothing we can do about yer massive population or all the tax payers money being pumped into ye as Bertie made sure of that when he was minister for finance but ye having 2 home games in the super 8s should definitely not be allowed actually I'd go as far as to say there should be no super 8 games played in crokepark when there are provincial grounds crying out for games.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/01/2019 21:03:55    2159567

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I'm not going to going to get into it again dubh linn ye all know my thoughts on the matter and there is nothing we can do about yer massive population or all the tax payers money being pumped into ye as Bertie made sure of that when he was minister for finance but ye having 2 home games in the super 8s should definitely not be allowed actually I'd go as far as to say there should be no super 8 games played in crokepark when there are provincial grounds crying out for games."
The one common denominator I see in people whinging about Dublins dominance is that the majority of ouf it comes from Kerry .A lot of Kerry supporterus ( not all mind you ) seem to think they have a God given right to win the All Ireland every year and it's driving them around the twist for the last few yrs to see The Dubs dominate and more than likely do something that Kerry have failed to do .I watched Kerry dominate during the 70s and 80s and never heard that begrudgery towards Kerry coming from Dublin or any other county for that matter that you have to listen to now. Sure people got fedup looking at the same team winning all round them and want to see the underdog come through and win. The whole of Ireland would love to see the present Mayo team win an All Ireland or would some Kerry folk have a problem with that to I wonder. Kerry folk had the same issues with Tyrone when they were on top.Paudi wasn't far off the mark with this description of some of the so called supporters. This is not a personal dig at yourself by the way.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 26/01/2019 05:25:00    2159598

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I'm not going to going to get into it again dubh linn ye all know my thoughts on the matter and there is nothing we can do about yer massive population or all the tax payers money being pumped into ye as Bertie made sure of that when he was minister for finance but ye having 2 home games in the super 8s should definitely not be allowed actually I'd go as far as to say there should be no super 8 games played in crokepark when there are provincial grounds crying out for games."
I don't see Croke Park as Dublin's...they don't own it and as a member of the GAA it's as much mine as it is some lad from Drumcondra.

All GAA teams want to play there and many teams are familiar with it. I do agree they shouldn't get 2 super 8's games there but that's for the GAA to decide.

The major advtange is Dublin fans...yes they travel great and will bring massive crowds to league games but try forming out for 5/6 trips to the capital in the height of summer and then you really know the cost of following your team.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 26/01/2019 08:43:55    2159606

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