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Some interesting posts. The analysis of gaelic football can be very poor. In a league where points difference comes into play its very logical to not chase the game and take a heavier defeat than you need to take. That's all that happened at the end of the donegal vs Dublin match. Last year Tyrone scored the highest average points per match ever in the ulster championship. This year donegal beat it. Scoring is not an issue in gaelic football. For he offensive mark its assumed that the ball will just get lumped in to a big lad. Nobody ever mentioned about an accurate kick into a fast player running into space.
From a donegal perspective you could see a real movement to more offensive football. It wasn't the case in every game but it was the case in most games.
When teams go ultra negative gaelic can very tough to watch but that tactic ultimately works out for very few team and you can see a shift in philosophy happening.
A rule I can't understand why they wouldn't bring in is a pass to the keeper being banned (especially after a kick out).
I also would just flip league and championship with playoffs at the end to decide the champions. League is a really good competition.
lt also really doesn't help that without mayo thus year Dublin had it easy and that makes interest wane.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 692 - 19/12/2018 23:57:09
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I've never been paid to go to see a football game , not aware of anyone I know who's been paid to go to a game is it a new fad that I've missed out on , maybe I didn't get the memo , until then I will continue to go to club games for free and pay to see my county
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 20/12/2018 07:59:55
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It was cat and that's coming from a lad that watched his team get hammered off the field by Tyrone in the game b4 it.
OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1139 - 19/12/2018 22:08:59
What was so bad about the first 60 or minutes?
Be specific and not lazy in your critique.
The last 10 minutes were poor because the game was won and Donegal decided to keep the score down and Dublin decided to conserve energy. With the introduction of a league group into the season we're going to get situations like that unfortunately. Instead of looking at the structure of the championship that leads to that people blame the style of football.
But the first 60 minutes was a normal enough game that was even enough except for Niall Scully's 2 goals. Both teams attacked and created plenty of chances throughout the first 60 minutes.
The biggest problem football faces is negativity like the poster above where they lazily dismiss an entire game because of 10 or so minutes at the end.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 20/12/2018 08:03:10
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i too think rugby is a completely overrated game.
yes the respect for the officals is great,but having been to a couple of matches live,it is so slow,so stop start,2 minutes to get the scrum right,kick the ball out of play and everyone saunters up the pitch for a lineout,2 minutes to take a penalty,yawn yawn yawn.
it is better on tv because they can fill that time with replays,etc.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 20/12/2018 09:26:12
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It amazes me that those people who bemoan the lack of kicking in Gaelic football today, have no problem with the almost complete absence of kicking in rugby football (except when they hoof the ball out over the sideline!)
football first (None) - Posts: 1102 - 19/12/2018 19:15:01shock horror a different sport doesnt kick the ball as much as another sport. and they kick it over the sideline for territorial advantage......
I never watch rugby- i find it boring and a i cannot understand the rules. The constant stop/start nature also is not attactive.
You will find that most of the critics of Gaelic football are Rugby fans and also come from counties like Westmeath/Derry/Meath and Cork who are not good at the game.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1317 - 19/12/2018 19:49:25laws of rugby are not that difficult to understand
most gaelic football critics are not at all rugby fans.
A rule I can't understand why they wouldn't bring in is a pass to the keeper being banned (especially after a kick out).
I also would just flip league and championship with playoffs at the end to decide the champions. League is a really good competition.
lt also really doesn't help that without mayo thus year Dublin had it easy and that makes interest wane.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 95 - 19/12/2018 23:57:09 Banning a pass back to keeper would be huge.
i wouldnt necessarily flip league and championship but have championship in between the league like in other sports with cup on break weeks between league games
i too think rugby is a completely overrated game.
yes the respect for the officals is great,but having been to a couple of matches live,it is so slow,so stop start,2 minutes to get the scrum right,kick the ball out of play and everyone saunters up the pitch for a lineout,2 minutes to take a penalty,yawn yawn yawn.
it is better on tv because they can fill that time with replays,etc.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3062 - 20/12/2018 09:26:12Its actually far from slow. And no penalty takes 2 minutes. It isnt fair better on tv but if thats what floats your boat. You've completely ignored the real intricities of the sport
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 20/12/2018 10:40:47
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It amazes me that those people who bemoan the lack of kicking in Gaelic football today, have no problem with the almost complete absence of kicking in rugby football (except when they hoof the ball out over the sideline!)
football first (None) - Posts: 1102 - 19/12/2018 19:15:01shock horror a different sport doesnt kick the ball as much as another sport. and they kick it over the sideline for territorial advantage......
I never watch rugby- i find it boring and a i cannot understand the rules. The constant stop/start nature also is not attactive.
You will find that most of the critics of Gaelic football are Rugby fans and also come from counties like Westmeath/Derry/Meath and Cork who are not good at the game.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1317 - 19/12/2018 19:49:25laws of rugby are not that difficult to understand
most gaelic football critics are not at all rugby fans.
A rule I can't understand why they wouldn't bring in is a pass to the keeper being banned (especially after a kick out).
I also would just flip league and championship with playoffs at the end to decide the champions. League is a really good competition.
lt also really doesn't help that without mayo thus year Dublin had it easy and that makes interest wane.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 95 - 19/12/2018 23:57:09 Banning a pass back to keeper would be huge.
i wouldnt necessarily flip league and championship but have championship in between the league like in other sports with cup on break weeks between league games
i too think rugby is a completely overrated game.
yes the respect for the officals is great,but having been to a couple of matches live,it is so slow,so stop start,2 minutes to get the scrum right,kick the ball out of play and everyone saunters up the pitch for a lineout,2 minutes to take a penalty,yawn yawn yawn.
it is better on tv because they can fill that time with replays,etc.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3062 - 20/12/2018 09:26:12Its actually far from slow. And no penalty takes 2 minutes. It isnt fair better on tv but if thats what floats your boat. You've completely ignored the real intricities of the sport
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 20/12/2018 10:40:47
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Replying To MesAmis: "I'd like to actual figures for the massive decline in attendances/viewing figures for football versus hurling or rugby or whatever other stick is being used to beat football with. Say over a sustained period of time rather than just accepting as fact the idea that Gaelic Football is dying.
Despite what the doomsayers like to say Gaelic Football is still by far a bigger draw in terms of TV/attendances/player numbers when compared with both hurling and rugby. The only sport that you can compare it to is soccer, which also attracts complete widespread criticism.
I think people really fail to realise how far ahead of the other two sports Gaelic Football and soccer are. You talk about the 'big 4' sports, it's really the big 2 if you're honest.
Hurling, for all it's brilliance is still only played properly in about 12 or so counties. Rugby, for all its recent success, is still miles behind the 2 football codes, and hurling even, in participation.
Football has always been the worst sport in the world according to a vocal minority. It will continue to attract criticism but it will also continue to be the biggest show in town." Exactly. Spillane and all these bucks harping back to their long foot passing days is laughable. For sure there were great players and teams in the past. But the tactics looked to very rudimentary indeed. A lot of the so called beautiful foot passing was in reality lamping it up the field as hard and as far as you could.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9133 - 20/12/2018 10:41:25
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Replying To MesAmis: "It was cat and that's coming from a lad that watched his team get hammered off the field by Tyrone in the game b4 it.
OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1139 - 19/12/2018 22:08:59
What was so bad about the first 60 or minutes?
Be specific and not lazy in your critique.
The last 10 minutes were poor because the game was won and Donegal decided to keep the score down and Dublin decided to conserve energy. With the introduction of a league group into the season we're going to get situations like that unfortunately. Instead of looking at the structure of the championship that leads to that people blame the style of football.
But the first 60 minutes was a normal enough game that was even enough except for Niall Scully's 2 goals. Both teams attacked and created plenty of chances throughout the first 60 minutes.
The biggest problem football faces is negativity like the poster above where they lazily dismiss an entire game because of 10 or so minutes at the end." That is exactly my point. How can a game with a scoreline of 2-15 to 0-16 be made out to be so bad? We're not saying it was a classic by any means but how can all the focus of the analysis be about the last few moments of the game. You might be right about Donegal being happy enough to keep the score down in those last 5-10 minutes but I honestly think they were out on their feet too. Donegal were a bit off Dublin and Tyrone in the conditioning stakes this year but hopefully they put that right over the winter for 2019.
Another game that got unfair criticism this year was the all ireland semi final between Monaghan and Tyrone. It was a game that was impossible to call the winner in until the final whistle went. Like the majority of most semi finals ever played it was not of the highest quality throughout with both teams making mistakes but it was gripping stuff to watch as the lead changed hands and the teams were level on several occasions. The game ended up being heavily criticized by pundits but again I believe the reason for this is when watching the game it was hard to see the winner of the game being able to beat Dublin in the final and therefore was dismissed as a poor game. Say it was Galway waiting in the final for the winner I'm pretty sure the analysis would of been much different and there would been plenty of excitement about a Tyrone v Galway final as it would of been seen as a 50/50 game by most. This is not me having a go at Dublin but because they were so far ahead in 2018 it was impossible to see them being beaten. Same as Kilkenny 10 years ago in the hurling. I do think some of the teams I mentioned in a previous post can close the gap to Dublin in 2019 as if they do they will need to score a lot to beat them or even give them a good game so I for one would pay plenty to watch those potential games!
Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 20/12/2018 11:42:41
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Replying To Mobot: " Replying To MesAmis: "It was cat and that's coming from a lad that watched his team get hammered off the field by Tyrone in the game b4 it.
OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1139 - 19/12/2018 22:08:59
What was so bad about the first 60 or minutes?
Be specific and not lazy in your critique.
The last 10 minutes were poor because the game was won and Donegal decided to keep the score down and Dublin decided to conserve energy. With the introduction of a league group into the season we're going to get situations like that unfortunately. Instead of looking at the structure of the championship that leads to that people blame the style of football.
But the first 60 minutes was a normal enough game that was even enough except for Niall Scully's 2 goals. Both teams attacked and created plenty of chances throughout the first 60 minutes.
The biggest problem football faces is negativity like the poster above where they lazily dismiss an entire game because of 10 or so minutes at the end." That is exactly my point. How can a game with a scoreline of 2-15 to 0-16 be made out to be so bad? We're not saying it was a classic by any means but how can all the focus of the analysis be about the last few moments of the game. You might be right about Donegal being happy enough to keep the score down in those last 5-10 minutes but I honestly think they were out on their feet too. Donegal were a bit off Dublin and Tyrone in the conditioning stakes this year but hopefully they put that right over the winter for 2019. Another game that got unfair criticism this year was the all ireland semi final between Monaghan and Tyrone. It was a game that was impossible to call the winner in until the final whistle went. Like the majority of most semi finals ever played it was not of the highest quality throughout with both teams making mistakes but it was gripping stuff to watch as the lead changed hands and the teams were level on several occasions. The game ended up being heavily criticized by pundits but again I believe the reason for this is when watching the game it was hard to see the winner of the game being able to beat Dublin in the final and therefore was dismissed as a poor game. Say it was Galway waiting in the final for the winner I'm pretty sure the analysis would of been much different and there would been plenty of excitement about a Tyrone v Galway final as it would of been seen as a 50/50 game by most. This is not me having a go at Dublin but because they were so far ahead in 2018 it was impossible to see them being beaten. Same as Kilkenny 10 years ago in the hurling. I do think some of the teams I mentioned in a previous post can close the gap to Dublin in 2019 as if they do they will need to score a lot to beat them or even give them a good game so I for one would pay plenty to watch those potential games!"
The undue criticism of football is dangerous as it might at the moment be leading us down a path where we massively change the game.
The handpass rule has the potential to ruin the ends of games massively if it is introduced.
I'm not completely against tweaking rules but I think it has to come from a more honest place than it currently comes from.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 20/12/2018 12:32:18
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Exactly. Spillane and all these bucks harping back to their long foot passing days is laughable. For sure there were great players and teams in the past. But the tactics looked to very rudimentary indeed. A lot of the so called beautiful foot passing was in reality lamping it up the field as hard and as far as you could." The majority of long kick passes in the 70/80/90s were hoofed balls to no one.
They sometimes worked out and looked like beautiful passes. There the ones the auld codgers remember and see on highlight reels.
There is a movement now to bring Football back to that by forcing teams to launch the ball long.
We'll see how great the game looks then.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 20/12/2018 12:34:26
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Replying To MesAmis: " Replying To Mobot: "[quote=MesAmis: "It was cat and that's coming from a lad that watched his team get hammered off the field by Tyrone in the game b4 it.
OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1139 - 19/12/2018 22:08:59
What was so bad about the first 60 or minutes?
Be specific and not lazy in your critique.
The last 10 minutes were poor because the game was won and Donegal decided to keep the score down and Dublin decided to conserve energy. With the introduction of a league group into the season we're going to get situations like that unfortunately. Instead of looking at the structure of the championship that leads to that people blame the style of football.
But the first 60 minutes was a normal enough game that was even enough except for Niall Scully's 2 goals. Both teams attacked and created plenty of chances throughout the first 60 minutes.
The biggest problem football faces is negativity like the poster above where they lazily dismiss an entire game because of 10 or so minutes at the end." That is exactly my point. How can a game with a scoreline of 2-15 to 0-16 be made out to be so bad? We're not saying it was a classic by any means but how can all the focus of the analysis be about the last few moments of the game. You might be right about Donegal being happy enough to keep the score down in those last 5-10 minutes but I honestly think they were out on their feet too. Donegal were a bit off Dublin and Tyrone in the conditioning stakes this year but hopefully they put that right over the winter for 2019. Another game that got unfair criticism this year was the all ireland semi final between Monaghan and Tyrone. It was a game that was impossible to call the winner in until the final whistle went. Like the majority of most semi finals ever played it was not of the highest quality throughout with both teams making mistakes but it was gripping stuff to watch as the lead changed hands and the teams were level on several occasions. The game ended up being heavily criticized by pundits but again I believe the reason for this is when watching the game it was hard to see the winner of the game being able to beat Dublin in the final and therefore was dismissed as a poor game. Say it was Galway waiting in the final for the winner I'm pretty sure the analysis would of been much different and there would been plenty of excitement about a Tyrone v Galway final as it would of been seen as a 50/50 game by most. This is not me having a go at Dublin but because they were so far ahead in 2018 it was impossible to see them being beaten. Same as Kilkenny 10 years ago in the hurling. I do think some of the teams I mentioned in a previous post can close the gap to Dublin in 2019 as if they do they will need to score a lot to beat them or even give them a good game so I for one would pay plenty to watch those potential games!"
The undue criticism of football is dangerous as it might at the moment be leading us down a path where we massively change the game.
The handpass rule has the potential to ruin the ends of games massively if it is introduced.
I'm not completely against tweaking rules but I think it has to come from a more honest place than it currently comes from."]Yeah I agree with a lot here.
Evolution of rules on a regular basis is fine. Small tweaks at the margins arrived at through proper consultations with the stakeholders is very sensible.
Bringing in 5 separate rules for the National League, and given their reaction, with seemingly little input from players is not subtle evolution.
All of this from the outside looks like panic stations and a reaction to falling attendance. The super 8 introduction from kind of nowhere also fit this bill. I would have concerns over the motivations and the process around some of these changes.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4221 - 20/12/2018 13:28:25
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Replying To MesAmis: " Replying To Mobot: "[quote=MesAmis: "It was cat and that's coming from a lad that watched his team get hammered off the field by Tyrone in the game b4 it.
OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1139 - 19/12/2018 22:08:59
What was so bad about the first 60 or minutes?
Be specific and not lazy in your critique.
The last 10 minutes were poor because the game was won and Donegal decided to keep the score down and Dublin decided to conserve energy. With the introduction of a league group into the season we're going to get situations like that unfortunately. Instead of looking at the structure of the championship that leads to that people blame the style of football.
But the first 60 minutes was a normal enough game that was even enough except for Niall Scully's 2 goals. Both teams attacked and created plenty of chances throughout the first 60 minutes.
The biggest problem football faces is negativity like the poster above where they lazily dismiss an entire game because of 10 or so minutes at the end." That is exactly my point. How can a game with a scoreline of 2-15 to 0-16 be made out to be so bad? We're not saying it was a classic by any means but how can all the focus of the analysis be about the last few moments of the game. You might be right about Donegal being happy enough to keep the score down in those last 5-10 minutes but I honestly think they were out on their feet too. Donegal were a bit off Dublin and Tyrone in the conditioning stakes this year but hopefully they put that right over the winter for 2019. Another game that got unfair criticism this year was the all ireland semi final between Monaghan and Tyrone. It was a game that was impossible to call the winner in until the final whistle went. Like the majority of most semi finals ever played it was not of the highest quality throughout with both teams making mistakes but it was gripping stuff to watch as the lead changed hands and the teams were level on several occasions. The game ended up being heavily criticized by pundits but again I believe the reason for this is when watching the game it was hard to see the winner of the game being able to beat Dublin in the final and therefore was dismissed as a poor game. Say it was Galway waiting in the final for the winner I'm pretty sure the analysis would of been much different and there would been plenty of excitement about a Tyrone v Galway final as it would of been seen as a 50/50 game by most. This is not me having a go at Dublin but because they were so far ahead in 2018 it was impossible to see them being beaten. Same as Kilkenny 10 years ago in the hurling. I do think some of the teams I mentioned in a previous post can close the gap to Dublin in 2019 as if they do they will need to score a lot to beat them or even give them a good game so I for one would pay plenty to watch those potential games!"
The undue criticism of football is dangerous as it might at the moment be leading us down a path where we massively change the game.
The handpass rule has the potential to ruin the ends of games massively if it is introduced.
I'm not completely against tweaking rules but I think it has to come from a more honest place than it currently comes from."]You're talking a lot of sense Mes
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 20/12/2018 13:28:38
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I agree with the guys sentiment although am aware of the attention seeking side too and If he had have just said " Football isnt great to watch sometimes compared to other sports " then we wouldnt be hearing about it .
But aside from that , It seems that with more time devoted to training nowadays , Players in both codes are getting fitter , faster & stronger. These attributes in hurling will always take second place to skill and touch due to the speed the ball is moving and the demands on first time control. Combine the lot with the GAA's unique passion and its a magnifcent spectacle.
However I feel in football these attributes are contributing to the more defensive aspects of the game - tackling, man-marking , spoiling and and generally covering space in defensive areas with an emphasis on counter-attack and "transitioning" !! Like rugby we can stand back and applaud the intricacies but on the whole it looks very laboured and careful ..
I agree with some earlier posers that football gets more media attention ( for different reasons, possibly deserving of another thread ) but football suffers in these times of media saturation and over-analysis . If we conflate media attention with popularity then this does football no favours due to the obvious contradiction- most of the time.
Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 20/12/2018 14:19:28
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Replying To Finsceal: "I agree with the guys sentiment although am aware of the attention seeking side too and If he had have just said " Football isnt great to watch sometimes compared to other sports " then we wouldnt be hearing about it .
But aside from that , It seems that with more time devoted to training nowadays , Players in both codes are getting fitter , faster & stronger. These attributes in hurling will always take second place to skill and touch due to the speed the ball is moving and the demands on first time control. Combine the lot with the GAA's unique passion and its a magnifcent spectacle.
However I feel in football these attributes are contributing to the more defensive aspects of the game - tackling, man-marking , spoiling and and generally covering space in defensive areas with an emphasis on counter-attack and "transitioning" !! Like rugby we can stand back and applaud the intricacies but on the whole it looks very laboured and careful ..
I agree with some earlier posers that football gets more media attention ( for different reasons, possibly deserving of another thread ) but football suffers in these times of media saturation and over-analysis . If we conflate media attention with popularity then this does football no favours due to the obvious contradiction- most of the time." Fair points in relation to players being fitter, faster and stronger and like most sports teams do spend a lot of time getting a defensive gameplan is place as it would be madness not to but there is also serious work going into attacking game plans in the last few years because a lot of thought is required to breakdown modern day defenses and with teams now scoring more than they ever have before I would suggest that skill levels when it comes to score taking (shooting, decision making and composure) is at an all time high. The thing is, this part of the game is still developing as the score averages continue to rise each year and that looks like it will continue because teams now know that good defensive sets up aren't enough to win the big games and let's be honest, were they ever?
Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 20/12/2018 14:34:41
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Who is this Moyna and realistically what has he achieved so tell me why should we care what he thinks?
Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 21/12/2018 01:20:59
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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu: "Who is this Moyna and realistically what has he achieved so tell me why should we care what he thinks?" managed dcu for years,ran them to death at times and then was all wise regarding over training.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 21/12/2018 10:06:01
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Replying To TheUsername: "I had this out with a couple of lads who said attendances are dropping in football, its simply wrong, its never been as popular to be honest according to the numbers. There are more people attending the championship and leagues in football then ever before. It actually beats hurling by a margin and is growing faster. See the link and scroll down to see attendances between the competitions and codes. http://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-distributes-record-million-counties-and-clubs-155643/Obviously the 2018 figures are going to be skewed and improved significantly due to the new format."
This years All Ireland semi finals were the worst attended this decade.
Just thought that should be pointed as you are being slightly disengenuous with this comment.
cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 21/12/2018 11:22:36
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Being critical of Football in Ireland is similar to Brexit mania in the UK/England. A load of hot air being spouted by a few people with an agenda and a platform. Eventually people buy into the narrative and use selective thinking to validate their new beliefs (Dublin Donegal game discussed above is good example, people focusing on the last 10 minutes.. Its all based on some nostalgic notion of how great things were in the past, even though the evidence clearly shows that not to be the case. Similar to brexit, its all fun and games until things go to far and for me these rule changes are too far. We risk killing the golden goose.
Yes there are bad games these days, but there have always been bad games. Yes teams are fitter, stronger and more tactically aware, but we can't turn the clock back and make ourselves 'unknow' things. It would be like Homer asking for the crayon to be put back up his nose.
The last 10 years have been a steep learning curve for everyone. New methods, new tactics etc. and mistakes have been made, but I really think we are coming out the other side of that now. Scoring stats are way up, and it is clear that if you want to be successful, yes you need to be defensively organized, but you also need to have an attacking threat, that is clear now (maybe it wasn't to everyone a few years ago). Australian rules had the same thing 15 years ago, they called it the 'flood' defence instead of the 'blanket', they came out safely on the other side without overhauling the sport... teams realized in the end defence will only get them so far.
Everyone who loves football should stand up for it and speak proudly of the many great games we see. Crowds are still strong despite dodgy structures / cost / single team domination. Just look at what the crowds will be last week of Jan when the league starts. People are mad for football... and to hell with the naysayers.
Happy Christmas to all! Roll on the league
himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 293 - 21/12/2018 11:55:34
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Replying To cavandub: "You did ultimately lose that argument as the 2018 figures including the new format are significantly down on 2017.
This years All Ireland semi finals were the worst attended this decade.
Just thought that should be pointed as you are being slightly disengenuous with this comment." Was about to say the same thing I remember that thread the conclusion was that attendances fell sharply for about a decade before a small bounce in 2016.
To say there are more people attending matches than ever is just not true there has been an alarming drop off for some time.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 21/12/2018 12:26:21
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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu: "Who is this Moyna and realistically what has he achieved so tell me why should we care what he thinks?" 4 Sigerson, 2 Ryan, 2 OByrne cups, head of the school of health and performance in DCU and probably the most renowned sport and performance scientists in Ireland.
Hadn't won a Sigerson since like, 2015 though
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 21/12/2018 12:31:43
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