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Pairc Ui Chaoimh And That Twenty Five Million Overspend

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Cork and The South will rise again. PUC is a great facility. It will get sorted out.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1554 - 04/02/2019 15:59:25    2162547

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Replying To 11jm11:  "Apart from the pitch itself which is a disgrace, its a fine stadium to watch a game.

As for cork football, its at a low point. Football needs a strong cork and with the resources at their disposal, its mind boggling as to why they have fallen so far."
So what youre saying is that resources DOESNT actually guarantee success and you can be at an all time low despite having superior resources to most other counties and the 3rd biggest population on the Island.

Sound.

Must remember that when the resources argument comes up for the 1000000th time in the coming weeks/months.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13416 - 04/02/2019 17:15:35    2162565

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Replying To waynoI:  "So what youre saying is that resources DOESNT actually guarantee success and you can be at an all time low despite having superior resources to most other counties and the 3rd biggest population on the Island.

Sound.

Must remember that when the resources argument comes up for the 1000000th time in the coming weeks/months."
:)

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2127 - 04/02/2019 17:53:21    2162576

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Replying To waynoI:  "So what youre saying is that resources DOESNT actually guarantee success and you can be at an all time low despite having superior resources to most other counties and the 3rd biggest population on the Island.

Sound.

Must remember that when the resources argument comes up for the 1000000th time in the coming weeks/months."
To add to that, Cork aren't far behind Dublin in terms of registered playing numbers, which is the real playing base number.
People keep lazily throwing out the population argument, which is very misleading. Dublin have a much lower percentage of registered GAA players than most counties. Their overall number is still larger, but nowhere near to the extent that is stated regularly.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 508 - 05/02/2019 10:52:31    2162705

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Replying To waynoI:  "So what youre saying is that resources DOESNT actually guarantee success and you can be at an all time low despite having superior resources to most other counties and the 3rd biggest population on the Island.

Sound.

Must remember that when the resources argument comes up for the 1000000th time in the coming weeks/months."
Whilst I sort of agree with your sentiment and that of course money doesn't guarantee success, it does attract the best coaches. Whilst playing numbers may be similar, the amount spent on coaching is vastly inferior to Dublin.

According to an article I read last year, Dublin received c. £16.6m over a 10 yr period, whereas Cork received next highest over the same period at c. £1.2m.

Now while I acknowledge that other counties have done more with less central coaching budget than Cork and Cork are underachieving, when you factor in net spend per playing population per capita, they could actually be receiving towards the least funding in the country.

Just another side to your point around resources.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 127 - 05/02/2019 11:50:21    2162719

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From being something which should have brought pride to the city, the stadium has now become an embarrasment. Over the years, on here, and elsewhere I've been critical of Cork County Board. I was one of only a handful on here that agreed with Donal Og's comments about this stadium build a few years ago. But for all of that two points should be made:

1. The idea that the stadium has been built in some faraway ungetable nverland is a bit silly. Cork is a bit different to most other counties. It is the second city of the state and close to 500,000 people live within 45 minutes of the city. That makes it a major city in Irish terms and in even on a list of Britains major urban areas, it'd come in the top one third. Stadiums of this size are not uncommon in cities of this size. The problem in this country is that we tend to compare our cities with the world's/Europe's major cities, so everything looks small, and Dublin looks like the only place worth spending money on. A city the size of Cork should have more than one motorway leading out of it, and if it did, developments like this would be far more common.

2. The County Board dealing with this mess is quite different to the board that created it. For the first time in years, there are quite a few good progressive people in senior positions on CCB. Given the chance, they can make a difference. A big difference.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 798 - 06/02/2019 03:57:17    2162894

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I have heard that the corporate facilities are very poor in this stadium? Can anyone confirm this? I got it from the Rugby World Cup review where is slated PUC for sub-standard corporate and live broadcasting facilities!

Termon (Tyrone) - Posts: 56 - 06/02/2019 11:58:55    2162947

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Venue for 2019 Ploughing Championships just announced.

gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 796 - 06/02/2019 15:00:03    2162995

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Replying To Termon:  "I have heard that the corporate facilities are very poor in this stadium? Can anyone confirm this? I got it from the Rugby World Cup review where is slated PUC for sub-standard corporate and live broadcasting facilities!"
don't believe all this. It is just begrudgery.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1554 - 06/02/2019 16:14:10    2163022

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I have heard that the corporate facilities are very poor in this stadium? Can anyone confirm this? I got it from the Rugby World Cup review where is slated PUC for sub-standard corporate and live broadcasting facilities!
Termon (Tyrone) - Posts: 54 - 2/6/19 11:58:55 AM
Corporate wouldnt necessarily be at standard as many other grounds.


don't believe all this. It is just begrudgery.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1390 - 2/6/19 4:14:10 PM
Begrudgery from who exactly?
This is from the report from the group that decided where the 2023 rugby world cup was to be hosted
"each venue will need ample space to accommodate broadcasters and corporate needs [tents, hosting areas, extra concession and merchandise stands]. World Rugby wants a 500-metre radius around each stadium to use as its own for game-days."
Pairc Ui Chaoimh scored badly here.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/rugby-world-cup-gaa-140871

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 06/02/2019 17:00:12    2163031

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Replying To gaelicgab:  "Venue for 2019 Ploughing Championships just announced."
It's actually in Carlow.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1104 - 06/02/2019 17:42:28    2163045

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Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a fine facility, there is no doubting that, but it is a terrible location, and 500k people living within a close radius is a lame argument, given whatever county they play are miles away.
The funny thing is, there is a club beside us who have all the facilities, swish shwoo, and everybody laughs because they have won nothing in years.
Success is judged on the pitch, stadiums, pitches, 4g pitches, etc all nonsense.
Interestingly though, my father was at a course of some sort in PUC and couldn't get over how dilapidated, mouldy, the terraces, etc were. He said they looked like the tidal steps in Kilmore Quay!

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 431 - 06/02/2019 20:20:23    2163072

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Culchie
Cork is the 3rd City in Ireland with a population of 125,000.
The stadium was a waste of badly needed financial resources, it will be full once a yr..
Fair play to Meath who are doing an ambitious plan but are still realistic with their projections,
Louth need a new ground , some of the vast over budget could have helped!!
The list is endless
But s big stadium for a city of 120,000 odd thousand and most if not all have no interest in football no matter how successful or unsuccessful they are

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1535 - 06/02/2019 21:18:21    2163087

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a fine facility, there is no doubting that, but it is a terrible location, and 500k people living within a close radius is a lame argument, given whatever county they play are miles away.
The funny thing is, there is a club beside us who have all the facilities, swish shwoo, and everybody laughs because they have won nothing in years.
Success is judged on the pitch, stadiums, pitches, 4g pitches, etc all nonsense.
Interestingly though, my father was at a course of some sort in PUC and couldn't get over how dilapidated, mouldy, the terraces, etc were. He said they looked like the tidal steps in Kilmore Quay!"
Unfortunately I can't agree that Cork is a 'terrible location.' The problem with Cork is that it's infrastructure is nowhere near the level that a city of its size demands. There is one motorway to Dublin, with two lane roads in all otehr directions. The two busiest entry points to the city converge on the one interchange, and all major roads (bar one) converge on the South Ring Road. Limerick and Galway have far superior road systems even though they are much smaller cities. Indeed in Limerick, the roads are completely in excess of requirements. If Cork had a proper raod leading to Waterford (or even a railway perhaps) it'd be little more than an hour away. A proper road to Limerick (which the IRFU are constantly demanding) would also cut that journey to aboyt an hour. We are already about an hour from the centre of Tipp. So infrastructure, not location, is the problem.

All my life Cork has continued to grow at a faster rate than all other Irish urban areas (bar Dublin and sometimes Galway) even though its infrastructure has always been more neglected. Such help is confined first and foremost to Dublin (which is erroneously seen as the only major city), and secondly to areas 'West of the Shannon.' Waterford is the only other city that is neglected to the same extent. I don't think Cork should stop improving itself just because the Dublin government choses to ignore it.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 798 - 06/02/2019 21:41:31    2163094

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "Culchie
Cork is the 3rd City in Ireland with a population of 125,000.
The stadium was a waste of badly needed financial resources, it will be full once a yr..
Fair play to Meath who are doing an ambitious plan but are still realistic with their projections,
Louth need a new ground , some of the vast over budget could have helped!!
The list is endless
But s big stadium for a city of 120,000 odd thousand and most if not all have no interest in football no matter how successful or unsuccessful they are"
Anybody who thinks Cork has a population of 125,000 probably thinks that Dublin has a population of 800,000. The population of cities is usually measured by urban area (commuter belt really). Cork's is close to 500k, Dublin about 1.5 million. In both cases (and in the case of Belfast) the city boroughs (five in Dublin) are much, much, smaller. Greater Cork is actually quite close to Greater Belfast (about 600k I think) in size and has been gaining on it for many years. Still smaller though, so I accept yoour point that it is the third city on the island.

My point is that Ireland has more than one substantial urban area. Dublin, Cork and Belfast would all be considered sizeable cities in global terms. Dublin would even be considered a big city. It is probably even among the top 2-300 cities in the world. Cities of Cork's size regularly have stadiums of the Park's size. You only have to drive through England to see that.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 798 - 06/02/2019 22:00:36    2163098

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Replying To Termon:  "I have heard that the corporate facilities are very poor in this stadium? Can anyone confirm this? I got it from the Rugby World Cup review where is slated PUC for sub-standard corporate and live broadcasting facilities!"
I was there for a conference and the corporate facilities looked excellent. What is the alleged issue with them?

I don't know the first thing about live broadcasting so can't comment on that.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1377 - 06/02/2019 23:54:57    2163117

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Replying To DonaldDuck:  "I have heard that the corporate facilities are very poor in this stadium? Can anyone confirm this? I got it from the Rugby World Cup review where is slated PUC for sub-standard corporate and live broadcasting facilities!
Termon (Tyrone) - Posts: 54 - 2/6/19 11:58:55 AM
Corporate wouldnt necessarily be at standard as many other grounds.


don't believe all this. It is just begrudgery.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1390 - 2/6/19 4:14:10 PM
Begrudgery from who exactly?
This is from the report from the group that decided where the 2023 rugby world cup was to be hosted
"each venue will need ample space to accommodate broadcasters and corporate needs [tents, hosting areas, extra concession and merchandise stands
. World Rugby wants a 500-metre radius around each stadium to use as its own for game-days."
Pairc Ui Chaoimh scored badly here.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/rugby-world-cup-gaa-140871"]Maybe the venue should have been put out into west cork close to the top of a mountain and in that way the rugger boys would have ample space for the tents, hosting, a bit of merchandise and whatever you say yourself.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2014 - 07/02/2019 01:45:29    2163122

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Replying To Culchie:  "Anybody who thinks Cork has a population of 125,000 probably thinks that Dublin has a population of 800,000. The population of cities is usually measured by urban area (commuter belt really). Cork's is close to 500k, Dublin about 1.5 million. In both cases (and in the case of Belfast) the city boroughs (five in Dublin) are much, much, smaller. Greater Cork is actually quite close to Greater Belfast (about 600k I think) in size and has been gaining on it for many years. Still smaller though, so I accept yoour point that it is the third city on the island.

My point is that Ireland has more than one substantial urban area. Dublin, Cork and Belfast would all be considered sizeable cities in global terms. Dublin would even be considered a big city. It is probably even among the top 2-300 cities in the world. Cities of Cork's size regularly have stadiums of the Park's size. You only have to drive through England to see that."
nobody is arguing that it isnt a big place,or worthy of a decent stadium.both of those are true.
my father told me recently that the original stadium was built there against the will of a lot of people,who steadfastly argued that it was the wrong place.those who dont learn from history are destined to repeat it.
now i think a bit of the pressure could be alleviated by some form of footbridge being built across the river,it was galling a couple of years ago to see the stadium across the river and walk about 45 minutes with 3 tired kids.
but in reality,lets be real,supporters voted with their feet last year for the quarter final,that is all you need to know.
the gaa is awash with badly planned facilities in every county in the country,including some clubs in my own county,and this is another.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3342 - 07/02/2019 08:53:00    2163128

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "Culchie
Cork is the 3rd City in Ireland with a population of 125,000.
The stadium was a waste of badly needed financial resources, it will be full once a yr..
Fair play to Meath who are doing an ambitious plan but are still realistic with their projections,
Louth need a new ground , some of the vast over budget could have helped!!
The list is endless
But s big stadium for a city of 120,000 odd thousand and most if not all have no interest in football no matter how successful or unsuccessful they are"
Totally uninformed opinion on Cork and Cork GAA. Do you have any knowledge of Cork and Munster GAA. Cork is a county of 530,000 people in a province of 1.3 million. The stadium isnt too big.Munster is the heart of the GAA. The vast majority of All Ireland's in all grades reside there. I have a huge problem with the over run but not the size of the stadium. Cork,Thurles and Limerick need to be able to host Munster Finals like they have always done.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 07/02/2019 08:57:46    2163129

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Replying To Culchie:  "Unfortunately I can't agree that Cork is a 'terrible location.' The problem with Cork is that it's infrastructure is nowhere near the level that a city of its size demands. There is one motorway to Dublin, with two lane roads in all otehr directions. The two busiest entry points to the city converge on the one interchange, and all major roads (bar one) converge on the South Ring Road. Limerick and Galway have far superior road systems even though they are much smaller cities. Indeed in Limerick, the roads are completely in excess of requirements. If Cork had a proper raod leading to Waterford (or even a railway perhaps) it'd be little more than an hour away. A proper road to Limerick (which the IRFU are constantly demanding) would also cut that journey to aboyt an hour. We are already about an hour from the centre of Tipp. So infrastructure, not location, is the problem.

All my life Cork has continued to grow at a faster rate than all other Irish urban areas (bar Dublin and sometimes Galway) even though its infrastructure has always been more neglected. Such help is confined first and foremost to Dublin (which is erroneously seen as the only major city), and secondly to areas 'West of the Shannon.' Waterford is the only other city that is neglected to the same extent. I don't think Cork should stop improving itself just because the Dublin government choses to ignore it."
Limerick is lucky with the roads infrastructure it has. It's in a very unique geographical position so it's a crossroads for the South and West. And it doesn't border the sea so a complete ring road was or will be done after the Northern Distributer is finished . And it's a big rail centre with Galway ,Cork and Waterford and Dublin lines.
As a kid I loved going down to Cork on the train for matches. Absolutely loved it..It was always a few degrees warmer down there.. The cows out grazing months before most of the country. Fantastic. But of course the taking for granted of success has come back to bite the GAA in Cork. I hope everything turns around soon for them and I'm looking forward to going to big matches in the Athletic Grounds again. The hurlers are a big 'Niall McCarthy' type centre forward away from an All Ireland but I couldn't say about the footballers

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 07/02/2019 09:10:17    2163132

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