|
Don't know much about the GPA or CPA but if anyone believes the GAA is not professional already for some you have your head stuck in the sand. Lots of well paying jobs. It is already run like a dictatorship by the people who need to protect these jobs. It seems reasonable that the people who put on the show should have some say and try keeping those who lead in some check.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 386 - 27/11/2018 15:16:41GAA isnt professional at all.
People call a sport professional based on players, coaches not administrators.
Now there is plenty of guys earning a lot as coaches but that doesnt make GAA professional.
And the top people in the GAA very much are kept in check through things like Congress.
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 27/11/2018 19:47:09
2152643
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "They idea would be similar to a lobby group say in the US. So individuals uncoordinated have little power, when you consider that there's such a thing as federal politics. No one strong group can contend with power based in one location.
If there's a weight of people across the country who are connected all in the system then they have power and can influence things.
The CPA are currently ineffective because they don't have a broad base of people in power and connected.
Really their strategy needs to be to run candidates in county boards. Get themselves a foothold in the wheels of power." So what's the point if the Club? Or we get rid of them? CPA are currently ineffective as they would have zero mandate.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 27/11/2018 20:06:17
2152646
Link
0
|
|
Replying To DonaldDuck: "Don't know much about the GPA or CPA but if anyone believes the GAA is not professional already for some you have your head stuck in the sand. Lots of well paying jobs. It is already run like a dictatorship by the people who need to protect these jobs. It seems reasonable that the people who put on the show should have some say and try keeping those who lead in some check.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 386 - 27/11/2018 15:16:41GAA isnt professional at all.
People call a sport professional based on players, coaches not administrators.
Now there is plenty of guys earning a lot as coaches but that doesnt make GAA professional.
And the top people in the GAA very much are kept in check through things like Congress." That is playing with words. The coaches are well paid you say, the administrators have full time paying jobs but don't call that professionalism in case you have to pay the performers. Seems to be a great gig for some. Are you joking about congress ? A place where 75% vote against their own best interests but it is democratic bla, bla, bla.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 27/11/2018 20:11:59
2152647
Link
1
|
|
Replying To witnof: "So what's the point if the Club? Or we get rid of them? CPA are currently ineffective as they would have zero mandate." Not everyone in a club has the same beliefs as the CPA.
The CPA is united under their main cause.
Better fixtures for club players.
There's not everyone in a club who that concerns.
Clubs also are also not connected and not all pulling together for change on this issue.
Clubs have their own priorities and messages to be delivered to their county boards, they likely care most about local issues. At a local level there wouldn't be a united front on all issues by clubs.
There would be people in clubs making money from the GAA who don't want to shake up the status quo. Certainly is in county boards. You look at the attempted silencing of the CPA. It shows that delegates at congress are against them despite the grassroots support. Those delegates represent clubs. They are not representing the players though.
The issue is a National issue, that needs a National solution that isn't being met in a coordinated manner because in the not distant past there wasn't an entity with the motivation to do anything about this.
Now there is, but they don't have influence yet.
Put it like this, why are their homeless lobbyists in Ireland when their are local political parties?
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 27/11/2018 20:40:40
2152650
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "Not everyone in a club has the same beliefs as the CPA.
The CPA is united under their main cause.
Better fixtures for club players.
There's not everyone in a club who that concerns.
Clubs also are also not connected and not all pulling together for change on this issue.
Clubs have their own priorities and messages to be delivered to their county boards, they likely care most about local issues. At a local level there wouldn't be a united front on all issues by clubs.
There would be people in clubs making money from the GAA who don't want to shake up the status quo. Certainly is in county boards. You look at the attempted silencing of the CPA. It shows that delegates at congress are against them despite the grassroots support. Those delegates represent clubs. They are not representing the players though.
The issue is a National issue, that needs a National solution that isn't being met in a coordinated manner because in the not distant past there wasn't an entity with the motivation to do anything about this.
Now there is, but they don't have influence yet.
Put it like this, why are their homeless lobbyists in Ireland when their are local political parties?" Who elects the delegates? The GAA has national democratically elected bodies. The CPA does not.
This rubbish that the club's do not have players interest at heart makes no sense.
In fact the CPA is not democratic at all!!!
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 27/11/2018 21:19:58
2152653
Link
0
|
|
Replying To witnof: "Who elects the delegates? The GAA has national democratically elected bodies. The CPA does not.
This rubbish that the club's do not have players interest at heart makes no sense.
In fact the CPA is not democratic at all!!!" You don't care about my answer and don't care to listen. You have your view that you don't want to change. So there's no point in arguing with you.
Have a good evening.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 27/11/2018 21:23:42
2152654
Link
3
|
|
Replying To witnof: "Who elects the delegates? The GAA has national democratically elected bodies. The CPA does not.
This rubbish that the club's do not have players interest at heart makes no sense.
In fact the CPA is not democratic at all!!!" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying
Here's this, apply it to the GAA.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 27/11/2018 21:32:26
2152655
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "You don't care about my answer and don't care to listen. You have your view that you don't want to change. So there's no point in arguing with you.
Have a good evening." When you start saying people in club's a and county boards are making money off the GAA hence they won't change I surely do not listen.
Who are these people? Start naming them!
This is one of these stupid throw away lines with zero proof or facts.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 27/11/2018 21:34:02
2152656
Link
1
|
|
Replying To DonaldDuck: "Don't know much about the GPA or CPA but if anyone believes the GAA is not professional already for some you have your head stuck in the sand. Lots of well paying jobs. It is already run like a dictatorship by the people who need to protect these jobs. It seems reasonable that the people who put on the show should have some say and try keeping those who lead in some check.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 386 - 27/11/2018 15:16:41GAA isnt professional at all.
People call a sport professional based on players, coaches not administrators.
Now there is plenty of guys earning a lot as coaches but that doesnt make GAA professional.
And the top people in the GAA very much are kept in check through things like Congress." Ormondbannerman is that you?
Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 27/11/2018 22:02:47
2152659
Link
0
|
|
Replying To witnof: "When you start saying people in club's a and county boards are making money off the GAA hence they won't change I surely do not listen.
Who are these people? Start naming them!
This is one of these stupid throw away lines with zero proof or facts." A GAA club is made of a number of individuals.
People making money out of the GAA include coaches as people who are administrators at a high enough level. They would have less motivation to change the status quo. Are they a sizeable number, no but they have influence. They are likely to be well known, be respected, they likely have spent a lot of their time in the GAA, fair play to them, have a group of willing friends who they've gathered over years.
They can all have very good intentions, they can all see the need for pooling resources for a county team, maybe there's something else important happening in the locale that needs so focus. This takes the attention of the club committee.
Maybe the players don't represent themselves well enough at club level as a unit.
Within a club what would we say is the average adult playing population? 15%? Of those how many attend club AGMs? A whole lot less. Now you can say, well they should attend club AGMs and other meetings. I'd answer that by saying what age are these guys and what do they have on their plate currently. 20s to early 30s. They are committing say 55 hours to their career, which they are only learning and forging, 10 hours to training/conditioning, how many to personal relationships/marriage/children. These players are going to be under represented at club level. They won't necessarily be looked after.
How many are retired players who care more about juvenile issues? How many are referees. How many are mainly concerned with the clubs financial situation.
There are a multitude of issues of importance at a club level. Adult competitions being organised better on a National level is not of primary concern to the majority of the club.
The CPA care, they have people with time and skills to further these issues. They are beginning to have a voice. An issue may only be off 6th importance on average in every club, can affect every club and on a National level be of the most importance.
That is why the CPA is needed.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 27/11/2018 22:17:23
2152660
Link
4
|
|
A GAA club is made of a number of individuals.
People making money out of the GAA include coaches as people who are administrators at a high enough level. They would have less motivation to change the status quo. Are they a sizeable number, no but they have influence. They are likely to be well known, be respected, they likely have spent a lot of their time in the GAA, fair play to them, have a group of willing friends who they've gathered over years.
They can all have very good intentions, they can all see the need for pooling resources for a county team, maybe there's something else important happening in the locale that needs so focus. This takes the attention of the club committee. Maybe the players don't represent themselves well enough at club level as a unit.
Within a club what would we say is the average adult playing population? 15%? Of those how many attend club AGMs? A whole lot less. Now you can say, well they should attend club AGMs and other meetings. I'd answer that by saying what age are these guys and what do they have on their plate currently. 20s to early 30s. They are committing say 55 hours to their career, which they are only learning and forging, 10 hours to training/conditioning, how many to personal relationships/marriage/children. These players are going to be under represented at club level. They won't necessarily be looked after.
How many are retired players who care more about juvenile issues? How many are referees. How many are mainly concerned with the clubs financial situation.
There are a multitude of issues of importance at a club level. Adult competitions being organised better on a National level is not of primary concern to the majority of the club.
The CPA care, they have people with time and skills to further these issues. They are beginning to have a voice. An issue may only be off 6th importance on average in every club, can affect every club and on a National level be of the most importance.
That is why the CPA is needed.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2158 - 27/11/2018 22:17:23 I wouldnt even say 15% of a clubs membership is the adult playing population. How many people are committing 55 hours a week to career? Average working week is consid less than that.
CPA isnt needed when it can only be a lobby group and it needs to change structures within the GAA for change to really improve club players
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 27/11/2018 22:33:56
2152664
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "A GAA club is made of a number of individuals.
People making money out of the GAA include coaches as people who are administrators at a high enough level. They would have less motivation to change the status quo. Are they a sizeable number, no but they have influence. They are likely to be well known, be respected, they likely have spent a lot of their time in the GAA, fair play to them, have a group of willing friends who they've gathered over years.
They can all have very good intentions, they can all see the need for pooling resources for a county team, maybe there's something else important happening in the locale that needs so focus. This takes the attention of the club committee.
Maybe the players don't represent themselves well enough at club level as a unit.
Within a club what would we say is the average adult playing population? 15%? Of those how many attend club AGMs? A whole lot less. Now you can say, well they should attend club AGMs and other meetings. I'd answer that by saying what age are these guys and what do they have on their plate currently. 20s to early 30s. They are committing say 55 hours to their career, which they are only learning and forging, 10 hours to training/conditioning, how many to personal relationships/marriage/children. These players are going to be under represented at club level. They won't necessarily be looked after.
How many are retired players who care more about juvenile issues? How many are referees. How many are mainly concerned with the clubs financial situation.
There are a multitude of issues of importance at a club level. Adult competitions being organised better on a National level is not of primary concern to the majority of the club.
The CPA care, they have people with time and skills to further these issues. They are beginning to have a voice. An issue may only be off 6th importance on average in every club, can affect every club and on a National level be of the most importance.
That is why the CPA is needed." Everyone's experience of clubs is very different. While what you have outlined might be your experience, in most clubs if a coach is getting paid he is not a member of the club and would not attend club meetings. He will be from an outside club and only attends matches and trainings as that is all he is paid for. Many club AGMs for smaller clubs are made up mainly of players as well, any non playing member stays well away out of fear that they would end up with a job as secretary or treasurer if they show up. There was an article just a few weeks ago about the Leitrim county champions where the chairman, secretary and treasurer were all current players. The idea that players have no influence in some clubs might be true but it's definitely not the case for many, many clubs.
The CPA remind me of Brexiteers, other than wanting something different to what they have now there is no agreement between them and never will be as they all want something different.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 27/11/2018 22:36:31
2152666
Link
0
|
|
That is playing with words. The coaches are well paid you say, the administrators have full time paying jobs but don't call that professionalism in case you have to pay the performers. Seems to be a great gig for some. Are you joking about congress ? A place where 75% vote against their own best interests but it is democratic bla, bla, bla.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 387 - 27/11/2018 20:11:59That isnt at all playing with words?
GAA isnt at all professional because the head office staff in croke park/munster council etc are paid. You need full time administrators to run a sporting organisation as big as the GAA but that doesnt make a sport professional. #
Not joking at all about congress.
Ormondbannerman is that you?
Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1438 - 27/11/2018 22:02:47Are you seriously only figuring that out now?
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 27/11/2018 22:36:44
2152667
Link
0
|
|
Replying To DonaldDuck: "Don't know much about the GPA or CPA but if anyone believes the GAA is not professional already for some you have your head stuck in the sand. Lots of well paying jobs. It is already run like a dictatorship by the people who need to protect these jobs. It seems reasonable that the people who put on the show should have some say and try keeping those who lead in some check.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 386 - 27/11/2018 15:16:41GAA isnt professional at all.
People call a sport professional based on players, coaches not administrators.
Now there is plenty of guys earning a lot as coaches but that doesnt make GAA professional.
And the top people in the GAA very much are kept in check through things like Congress." "The top people in the GAA very much are kept in check through things like Congress", this never happens. Congress is made up of political ladder climbers within the Association who will never rock the boat in case it would derail their political ambitions, if you were ever at one or witnessed one you would be shocked & bored to tears. Congress follow what Croke Park dictate. The political ladder is as follows, County Board, Provincial board, delegate at Congress, Central Council, appointed to Presidential/GAA committee, a maverick or anyone outspoken or someone who won't follow the dictat, would never make it.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 28/11/2018 00:15:26
2152672
Link
1
|
|
Replying To thelongridge: "Why can't the GPA represent all players, club and county. County players are club players who are given the honour of playing for their county. The GPA seem to think they can run the GAA to suit their agenda.
Now they are unhappy with some of the proposed rule changes, including the limit of 3 hand passes.
Anyone who is forced to endure that turgid boring, of keepball passing for Gaelic football can see the need for change, apparently not the elitist GPA.
It shows how out of touch they are with supporters, who pay good money to watch this muck." Good point, the GPA click their fingers in relation to the new rules & are granted a meeting & discussion on the matter, the tail wagging the dog ! The CPA can't get any recognition from the GAA but once GPA demanded a meeting, hey presto.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 28/11/2018 00:21:57
2152673
Link
0
|
|
Few responses to me getting bogged down in some small details of what I am saying.
The main point is organisations are groups of people banded together to achieve a common goal.
A GAA club is an organisation to further the promotion of GAA within its location/run the teams and other club activities to the best of its ability.
An individual club as an entity doesn't have much incentive to fix a national fixtures schedule at the expense of trying to raise its own finances say or build a new pitch or organise a new juvenile team.
The CPA is an entity with a common broad goal of improving fixtures.
Currently they want the issue brought to the table and have a say in it.
Their intent then would be to reach out to their members for feedback/guidance/ideas, priorities. They are looking to operate with the GAA structures and are doing that through representatives within the system, but they have their own narrow mandate and don't need to be fully integrated for their purpose.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 28/11/2018 12:25:38
2152704
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Good point, the GPA click their fingers in relation to the new rules & are granted a meeting & discussion on the matter, the tail wagging the dog ! The CPA can't get any recognition from the GAA but once GPA demanded a meeting, hey presto." The GPA spent many years fighting for players rights before they were officially recognised.
It was a long time before the GPA had such access.
The CPA are already further down the road compared to the early progress made by the GPA. It'll take time for the CPA but patience is a great thing and the GAA will eventually have no other option but to officially recognise the CPA.
It'll take time but if the CPA are as committed and as dogged as the early GPA then good things will eventually come. They've far too many members to ignore for much longer
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 28/11/2018 17:19:56
2152740
Link
1
|
|
I am at a bit of a loss to why two organizations are required to represent the same players. However it seems when the player moves up to inter county he forgets his club and that is why two organization are required. It is sickening when some of these players come back to hear them complaining about the club scene and how great it is to win with your club. Hypocrite players who jump through hoops for the county manager. Hypocrite managers who are talking from both sides of their mouths about protecting the club game.
Totally agree with player representation as in my opinion the GAA hierarchy are out of control and are structured so that they are only democratic in name.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 28/11/2018 18:50:23
2152752
Link
0
|
|
I am at a bit of a loss to why two organizations are required to represent the same players. However it seems when the player moves up to inter county he forgets his club and that is why two organization are required. It is sickening when some of these players come back to hear them complaining about the club scene and how great it is to win with your club. Hypocrite players who jump through hoops for the county manager. Hypocrite managers who are talking from both sides of their mouths about protecting the club game.
Totally agree with player representation as in my opinion the GAA hierarchy are out of control and are structured so that they are only democratic in name.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 28/11/2018 19:08:43
2152757
Link
1
|
|
The big issue I have with the CPA is that they complain about club fixtures. How it's all Croke Park/GAAs fault.
Then someone explain to me how 24 counties were finished Inter-County championship but still cannot run off county championships till.end September or October?
They are barking up the wrong tree
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 28/11/2018 19:51:24
2152761
Link
0
|