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Again follow the rules when it comes to the tackle which really does not exist anymore. Allow the tackle and penalize the third man in tackle. The tackle will be more successful if a proper hand pass is enforced as per the rules. Actually throwing the ball is worse in hurling. The only way to dispossess in either codes is to swarm and form rucks. If two players are contesting a ball and a third man comes in pawing and pulling etc. consider it a third man tackle. We don't need to go back or invent new rules. Apply more stringent the rules that exists. These rules were abused in the past but not like today as the players are faster, stronger, fitter, smatter and more devious. No disrespect to the players of yesterday but this is how things have evolved.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 26/11/2018 21:46:44 2152531 Link 1 |
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Why Are We Changing Our Game?! Kingdomson (Kerry) - Posts: 244 - 26/11/2018 23:08:10 2152546 Link 2 |
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You are right of course but if a referee tries to do that he'll be accused of "being finicky and not letting the game flow". Every pundit worth his salt will pound him. Everyone wants the rules enforced, but when they are the complaining inevitably brings us back to today's set up.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 27/11/2018 06:36:42 2152557 Link 3 |
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I see the point you're making and maybe you're right but why does GAA football have to be the only sport in the world where every team is forced to play the same way? These new rules changes that are to be trialed which have been led by the media almost have a feel of a spoiled child that is crying and unhappy because the other kids they're playing hide and seek with are hiding in new places unknown to the spoiled child who tells the grown ups and the grown ups then limit the number of places kids are allowed to hide going forward. There has been plenty of poor games of football in the last 6 or 7 years but were there not before this? There has also been plenty of good games played in the last few years but these games seem to be ignored more so that an ultra defensive game. There has been weekends where there has been several good game but the focus goes to the crap game and the outcry for rule change takes over. People say viewing figures and attendances have dropped this year. There are many factors for this with the 2 main reasons being the fixture layout of the super 8's and obviously to no fault of their own but Dublin's dominance. After Tyrone were unable to beat Dublin in Omagh we knew it was unlikely they would beat them in Croke Park. Galway lost badly at home to Monaghan in the last game of the super 8's and then had to play Dublin 1 week later in an all ireland semi final. It was nearly impossible to get excited by this as we all knew Galway were not going to beat them. The other semi final between Tyrone and Monaghan wasn't of the highest quality but semi finals often aren't but even with the exciting ending of the game you knew neither team were going to challenge Dublin in the final so again it led to a low key build up to the all ireland final. There are 5 or 6 teams at a very similar level and if Dublin were not so far ahead then you'd have a very exciting championship so until these teams get up to Dublin's level it's hard to get overly excited by the latter stages of the championship but this has nothing to do with rule changes. Another reason I think there is uproar about the restriction of the hand pass rule is some counties and club teams within that county have always had a traditional running game. Look at my own county, look back at highlights of the 1992 season and you'll see plenty of free flowing moves through the hands. A lot of the traditional clubs in Donegal especially in the south west of the county have always played running football and still do. People have to understand that a running game, runs off the shoulder at full speed and hand passing the ball is very skillful and if you can't kick the ball over the bar at the end of the move then it's pointless. There should always be contrasting styles allowed in GAA. The most recent example of this was Gweedore v Crossmaglen a couple of weeks ago. Gweedore has a powerful running game and Cross played a more direct style. It was great to watch. I'm not against a few rule tweaks but these proposals are too extreme. Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 27/11/2018 09:59:42 2152570 Link 0 |
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Would you go for these changes instead ? As here is near Civil War between those in favour, and those against, the 5 football rule changes - why not make things simple - and hopefully effective (taken and modified from my Simple Rule Changes thread) - Have '3 easy-to-implement' rule changes - 1) Sin-Bin - implement as proposed; and 2 other changes that ONLY apply within the defensive 45 - 2) Handpasses are allowed 'normally, hand to hand' when lateral or backward - forward movement within Own 45 is allowed via a 'handpass, on the bounce' or any kick; and 3) Progress 'Out of Own 45' is only via a kick to 'Beyond Attacking 65' (any progress to 'Between Own 45/ Their 65' via a kick, handpass or solo is illegal and results in a '45'to the opposing team). Play between 'Own 45/ Their 65' results from kicks behind Own 20 - following short kick outs or the initial kick out itself (latter allowed from the hand, AFL style, to speed things up), and attacking team is not allowed retreat to this zone once they are Beyond Their 65. That's it - no restrictions on sequential handpasses, nor kick outs, nor sideline plays; and no need for an attacking mark (as attacking play is now required). Also, the 'bounce' requirement or lateral passes should naturally impair handpass chains. I don't feel this changes the game too much - just opens it up. What do you think ? omahant (USA) - Posts: 2584 - 27/11/2018 12:09:55 2152588 Link 0 |
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Anyone ever play "no mans land" as a kid/coach of kids? ^^^
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 27/11/2018 12:59:09 2152600 Link 0 |
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Yes you are right the referees get pounded for applying the rules but that wears thin also after awhile. What makes us think by adding more rules for him that will change? If the hand pass comes in there will be a pundit specially to count them and decide if that really was a hand or just an attempt.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 27/11/2018 14:11:00 2152606 Link 1 |
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What does the Louth manager mean when he says "Everything you know and love about the game is just thrown out the window" like what exactly? An awful lot of whinging without specifying what you whinging about. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 27/11/2018 16:12:51 2152620 Link 3 |
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Strong heading for sure. The baby is still there and the bath water will be replaced. Is he for or against ? For God sake get off the fence or else do not comment at all.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 27/11/2018 17:11:40 2152625 Link 0 |
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It's Ireland. It's winter. We need something to whinge about. witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 27/11/2018 17:12:30 2152626 Link 0 |
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Exactly. Give them a chance at least before dismissing them. None, some or all of them might survive after the league but at least they're trying to make the game better for spectators. Not convinced fairly negative coaches will change their methods but surely some coaches and players are excited by these proposed changes.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 27/11/2018 19:08:32 2152636 Link 3 |
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Why??? because any game constantly need to evolved whether by rules or other means. ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 540 - 27/11/2018 20:40:10 2152649 Link 3 |
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Maybe a reduction in cost for National League games should be implemented, as the games will be played under bastardised rules. shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 27/11/2018 23:40:30 2152670 Link 0 |
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I totally agree, the game has evolved but the rules haven't simple as that. I do think that trialing so many changes at once is challenging. They possibly could have brought in some for the pre-season games McKenna, O'Byrne etc seen how they went and added others for the league depending on how the trials went, but I definitely think something had to be done.
cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 28/11/2018 12:05:44 2152703 Link 0 |
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Player bulk and upper body strength, blanket defenses and sweepers. Yes these are dramatic changes and people say teams now would wipe the field with teams of 25 years ago. Yes with today's ref but if they were playing with a ref of 25 years ago they might find the going much tougher than expected. Pretty much every time they run with the ball or try to tackle they would be blown up. Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 28/11/2018 17:47:31 2152747 Link 0 |
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Thats a very true point you make about some counties having a traditional running game. Its no coincidence that the most sucessful counties since early 00s have had always played a more traditional running game. 1 The possession game really with sweepers etc begins around 2003. Since 2003 the two most sucessful counties are kerry with 5 Sams and Dublin with 5 Sams. Kerry and Dublin have played since 1970s a mixture of hybrid of a style that mixes handpassing and more direct kicking game. 2 Ulster teams have always had a strong tradition of a running game. The first team to play a possession game , less direct game was Antrim of 1940s..Since 2003 Ulster has won 5 All-Irelands. 3 Donegal would have had a tradition of playing short passing hand passing game. 1992 Donegal team were brillant at it. 4 Tyrone the most sucessful county have Dublin and kerry since 2003 have always had a tradition of hand passing game. 5 In the west the most sucessful team has been Mayo reaching 6 All Ireland finals since 2003. Galway have not reached 1 final.since 2003. Mayo have a tradition of playing more handpassing game then Galway. Galway would have been a more direct kicking game county. The team of 98 and 01 played a very direct game. So did the Galway team of 60s. Last year was first time in 120 years plus that Galway had some sort of sucess without playing their traditional kicking game. 6 Another county with a tradition of hand passing possession football would be Cork. The teams of 1973 and 1989 1990 All Ireland winners all play a fast hand passing game. Yes Cork have fallen badly in last 4 or 5 years. But i put that down to not making John Cleary manager more then anything. Up to 2010 Cork played in 6 All Ireland semi finals in a row and only for kerry beating them in Croker would have won another All Ireland. 7 kildare also are a county that plays a hand passing game tradionally. Dwyer influence on their style of play since early 90s. While kildare have not won titles and have a very poor record in leinster championship since 2009. They do have an excellent record in backdoor And when u see them away down the country in qualifiers they always play a fast sucessful hand passing game. While counties like Meath ( No All Ireland final since 2001) , Galway ( No All-Ireland final since 2001 , first win in Croker in championship in 17 years last year ) Down ( Yes Ulster county but teams like 91 and 94 played a direct style , No Ulster title since 1994) , Armagh ( Yes Ulster county but 02 played a direct game , Crossmaglen play a direct game , havent won a match in Ulster in 5 years ) and Offaly ( 1 leinster title in 35 years ). All these traditional kick and catch counties all of them have had failed to adapt to a more running game. And all have had little or no sucess since 2003. Its no coincidence that the most sucessful counties since 2003 when tactics went up a level in football that the most sucessful counties have tradition of playing hand passing possession football. These are the most sucessful counties in last 15 years 1 Dublin - 5 All Irelands- Dublin always played a mixture of hand passing and kicking game 2 kerry - 5 All-Irelands- Kerry always played a mixture of handpassing and kicking game 3 Tyrone - 3 All Irelands-A tradition of handpassing 4 Donegal - 1 All Ireland- A tradition of handpassing 5 Cork- 1 All Ireland - A tradition of handpassing 6 Mayo - 6 All Ireland finaliat - A tradition of handpassing. Every county that has won Sam since 2003 all have tradition of running handpassing possession game it is no coincidence. One final thing for me sweepers and blanket defences have destroyed the skill of defending. The art of defending is dying. Now a defender has a sweeper or midfielder or blanket defence to cover his back if he makes a mis Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 04/12/2018 13:56:42 2153306 Link 1 |
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Thats a very true point you make about some counties having a traditional running game. Its no coincidence that the most sucessful counties since early 00s have had always played a more traditional running game. 1 The possession game really begins with sweepers etc begins around 2003. Since 2003 the two most sucessful counties are kerry with 5 Sams and Dublin with 5 Sams. Kerry and Dublin have played since 1970s a mixture of hybrid of a style that mixes handpassing and more direct kicking game. 2 Ulster teams have always had a strong tradition of a running game. The first team to play a possession game , less direct game was Antrim team of 1940s..Since 2003 Ulster has won 5 All-Irelands. 3 Donegal would have had a tradition of playing short passing hand passing game. 1992 Donegal team were brillant at it. 4 Tyrone the most sucessful county after Dublin and kerry since 2003 have always had a tradition of hand passing game. 5 In the west the most sucessful team has been Mayo reaching 6 All Ireland finals since 2003. Galway have not reached 1 final.since 2003. Mayo have a tradition of playing more handpassing game then Galway. Galway would have been a more direct kicking game county. The team of 98 and 01 played a very direct game. So did the Galway team of 60s. Last year was first time in 120 years plus that Galway had some sort of sucess without playing their traditional kicking game. 6 Another county with a tradition of hand passing possession football would be Cork. The teams of 1973 and 1989 1990 All Ireland winners all played a fast hand passing game. Yes Cork have fallen badly in last 4 or 5 years. But i put that down to not making John Cleary manager more then anything. Up to 2010 Cork played in 6 All Ireland semi finals in a row and only for kerry beating them in Croker would have won another All Ireland. 7 kildare also are a county that plays a hand passing game tradionally. Dwyer influence on their style of play since early 90s. While kildare have not won titles and have a very poor record in leinster championship since 2009. They do have an excellent record in backdoor And when u see them away down the country in qualifiers they always play a fast sucessful hand passing game. While counties like Meath ( No All Ireland final since 2001) , Galway ( No All-Ireland final since 2001 , first win in Croker in championship in 17 years last year ), Down ( Yes Ulster county but teams like 91 and 94 played a direct style , No Ulster title since 1994) , Armagh ( Yes Ulster county but 02 team played a direct game , Crossmaglen play a direct game , havent won a match in Ulster in 5 years ) and Offaly ( 1 leinster title in 35 years ). All these traditional kick and catch counties all of them have had failed to adapt to a more running game. And all have had little or no sucess since 2003. Its no coincidence that the most sucessful counties since 2003 when tactics went up a level in football that the most sucessful counties have a tradition of playing hand passing possession football. These are the most sucessful counties in last 15 years 1 Dublin - 5 All Irelands- Dublin always played a mixture of hand passing and kicking game 2 kerry - 5 All-Irelands- Kerry always played a mixture of handpassing and kicking game 3 Tyrone - 3 All Irelands-A tradition of handpassing 4 Donegal - 1 All Ireland- A tradition of handpassing 5 Cork- 1 All Ireland - A tradition of handpassing 6 Mayo - 6 All Ireland finaliat - A tradition of handpassing. Every county that has won Sam since 2003 all have a tradition of running handpassing possession game , it is no coincidence. One final thing for me sweepers and blanket defences have destroyed the skill of defending. The art of defending is dying. Now a defender has a sweeper or midfielder or blanket defence to cover his back if he makes a mistake. In the past a defender had no one to cover him. So a defender had to become good at defending or not play. There has been a massive increase of great defenders lately. Dublin have great defenders so do Mayo. After that there is some good defenders in Ulster. But there is a decline in defending. Look.ay kerry. A county with great tradition of defenders. Dont have one top class defender. Look at the defenders that played between mid 90s and mid 00s say from 1993 1994 to 2003 2004. Great defenders like Seamus Moyihan Tomas O Se Marc O Se Aidan O Mahoney Tom.Sullivan Stephen O Brien Tony Davis Niall Calahane Anthony Lynch Graham Canty Sean Og De Poar Tomas Mannion James Nallen K Mortimer Henry Downey Tony Scullion Sean Marty Lochard DJ Kane Glenn Ryan Anthony Rainbow Davy Dalton Robbie O Malley Martin O Connell Darren Fay Mark O Reilly Kieth Barr Eamon Heery Paul Curran Paddy Christie . The list goes on. Also where have all the great play making centre forwards gone. The possession game you no longer see the great player makers anymore. Again between 1993 to 2003 you saw great centre forwards who were playmakers who could open up a defence with 30 metre pass like Grey Blaney Trevor Giles Larry Tompkins Dermot McNicholl Brian McGuigan and Ciaran McDonald. The new game has led to the ying of the art of defending and great player maker centre forwards. The only modern centre forward wud be a Ciaran Kilkenny and he wud be a great all rounder and is a brillant footballer, a future footballer of the year, a great player in any era. But in terms of player makers centre forwards he wouldnt be in the league of Blaney Giles McGuigan or McDonald. The player maker centre forward is a thing of the past also. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 04/12/2018 14:17:56 2153307 Link 3 |
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The only rule change i agree with is the Sin Bin. There's enough rules in Gaelic Football as it is, the refrees can't keep up with the existing rules now never mind adding new ones. If the existing rules were enforced and called correctly and consistently it would open up the game. Enforce the 4 step rule, enforce the barging rule and call correctly the tackle rule. The tackle rule is simple, it's either shoulder to shoulder or strikuing the ball with the open hand. The rules don't doesnt allow softners, swing with the fist if you miss the ball you'll get the man. The refs can't keep up with the game now and we are giving them more rules to keep track of. Let the bitching begin. cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 04/12/2018 16:51:32 2153321 Link 1 |
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I know i said the only rule change i liked is the sinbin, but how are they going to time it. For it to be fair they'll have to bring in a game clock. Will someone be timing the ball in play. Otherwise the team that is a man down will waste time. 1 player could be in the bin for 5 minutes of football while another could be in for 8 minutes of football. cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 04/12/2018 16:59:40 2153322 Link 1 |
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There is loads of time wasting by teams down a player in other sports where the sinbin is used, I have no idea why the GAA want to introduce it. The pressure a club referee will be under monitoring the time for maybe 3 players in the sinbin and still reffing what's happening on the pitch will be ludicrous.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 04/12/2018 19:07:55 2153330 Link 0 |