National Forum

Why Are We Changing Our Game?!

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Replying To hurlorhurley:  "The problem is not the rules the problem is coaches and managers sending out teams not to lose game, instead of sending them out to win games."
This ignores the reality that in all competitions, at all levels, you have a small number of strong teams and a big number of relatively teams. Weaker teams have to try any way they can to reduce the advantage the stronger teams have - otherwise they take a hammering. Look at what happened to Roscommon in the Super 8s.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1400 - 21/11/2018 13:52:39    2152000

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an absolute disgrace what happened today...apart from the stupid rule changes, now central council has decided to de-base the national league...what a joke!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1614 - 24/11/2018 19:58:30    2152316

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Overall a great day. Good to see the changes coming into force. Personally anything that changes the game has to be good. The game is crying out for a tackle ,a proper take down tackle but that's for another day. The sin bin rule should be simplified and copied straight from Rugby.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 762 - 24/11/2018 20:12:39    2152319

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There is two options left to stop these shambles coming into effect in the next few weeks.
One the inter county referees could say we aren't not implimemting the new rules, as it is making their job even more difficult.
Or the most likely option is the the Inter county players going on strike.
I would be in favour of both options, the suits are ruining or bastardising our game.

It's my understand the new rules was one motion and not five separate motions.

Shambles

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1763 - 24/11/2018 20:36:36    2152320

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There is two options left to stop these shambles coming into effect in the next few weeks.
One the inter county referees could say we aren't not implimemting the new rules, as it is making their job even more difficult.
Or the most likely option is the the Inter county players going on strike.
I would be in favour of both options, the suits are ruining or bastardising our game.

It's my understand the new rules was one motion and not five separate motions.

Shambles

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1759 - 24/11/2018 20:36:36
Calling them a shambles is a bit OTT. Why not trial them and see them in action before judging them?
Inter county players wont strike and refs are not going to not impliment the rules.
Saying suits are ruining the game is nonsense. These so called suits are club people as much as me or you.

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 417 - 24/11/2018 21:20:33    2152324

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Changes caused the demise of a once great game. Anyone who says its is fine is in denial. More tinkering in the wrong direction and counting hand passes is the most ridiculous thing of all. "Oh was that the second one or third one ?" " Ya but the first one was only an attempted pass that failed " "The referee lost count and a goal was scored after three passes said the pundit causing team X to lose the game" " The referee consulted with the lines man but he shrugged his shoulders he was not counting.
Not a cynic but slow down here. A broken record again. Penalize hand passes that are not a striking action with separation between the ball and hand demonstrated by the arm travelling back. While the player is executing this he will often get drilled with a fair shoulder and will use the hand pass less frequent. Rip up those stupid black cards. (may be the others also) Penalize persistent fouling by dismissal, once, twice and side line. If a scoring chance or effort to make a pass is denied inky a foul inside 21yds point to the penalty spot.
As much as I would like to go back 50 years it is not going to happen. Stop tinkering, enforce the rules that exist and meaningfully punish cynical fouling. Then lets see where we are. In my opinion football will break out. O send the mark back to the two sports it came from and ban pundits.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 407 - 24/11/2018 21:43:23    2152328

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Overall a great day. Good to see the changes coming into force. Personally anything that changes the game has to be good. The game is crying out for a tackle ,a proper take down tackle but that's for another day. The sin bin rule should be simplified and copied straight from Rugby."
Yeah. Maybe change the shape of the ball as well. And get rid of goalkeepers.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 905 - 24/11/2018 22:25:56    2152332

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Replying To DonaldDuck:  "There is two options left to stop these shambles coming into effect in the next few weeks.
One the inter county referees could say we aren't not implimemting the new rules, as it is making their job even more difficult.
Or the most likely option is the the Inter county players going on strike.
I would be in favour of both options, the suits are ruining or bastardising our game.

It's my understand the new rules was one motion and not five separate motions.

Shambles

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1759 - 24/11/2018 20:36:36
Calling them a shambles is a bit OTT. Why not trial them and see them in action before judging them?
Inter county players wont strike and refs are not going to not impliment the rules.
Saying suits are ruining the game is nonsense. These so called suits are club people as much as me or you."
Trialling them in the national league is a disgrace, it's the most important competition for the vast majority of counties and only realistic chance to win a trophy.
Its completely unfair on team preparing for the championship in 2019 as it reverts back to the status quo after the league.It will lead to reduced attendances and more defensive football.
Most people in the suits are people on ego trips who don't represent the vast majority of the gaels as was seen by the voting down of the transparency motion at congress.
The players put them money in the kitty.

Only rule that will be kept is the sin bin.
Well back to the good old days of hoofing the ball away.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1763 - 24/11/2018 22:58:47    2152333

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Replying To Canuck:  "Changes caused the demise of a once great game. Anyone who says its is fine is in denial. More tinkering in the wrong direction and counting hand passes is the most ridiculous thing of all. "Oh was that the second one or third one ?" " Ya but the first one was only an attempted pass that failed " "The referee lost count and a goal was scored after three passes said the pundit causing team X to lose the game" " The referee consulted with the lines man but he shrugged his shoulders he was not counting.
Not a cynic but slow down here. A broken record again. Penalize hand passes that are not a striking action with separation between the ball and hand demonstrated by the arm travelling back. While the player is executing this he will often get drilled with a fair shoulder and will use the hand pass less frequent. Rip up those stupid black cards. (may be the others also) Penalize persistent fouling by dismissal, once, twice and side line. If a scoring chance or effort to make a pass is denied inky a foul inside 21yds point to the penalty spot.
As much as I would like to go back 50 years it is not going to happen. Stop tinkering, enforce the rules that exist and meaningfully punish cynical fouling. Then lets see where we are. In my opinion football will break out. O send the mark back to the two sports it came from and ban pundits."
Absolutely agree . Couldn't put it better .
Leave our game alone tactics will come and go . Stop inventing new rules or will will be left with a shadow of the sport we know .

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 28 - 24/11/2018 23:15:19    2152336

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I rarely comment anymore but on this topic I will only say that the GAA is tinkering around the rules BECAUSE it covers and hides the fact that the MAIN problem is the disparity and gap between Dublin and the rest. If the media and GAA convince the fans that the problem is tactics, too much hand passing, not enough kicking etc THEN the masses will be deflected away from the reality that what is REALLY destroying Gaelic football is the fact that we have ONE team that is professional in all but name and who will dominate for years to come. However if you tell people a different thing and focus away from the reality then many will eventually accept and believe it. I like Dublin, I ALWAYS have BUT these 'rule changes' are Emperor's New Clothes nonsense to take the focus and truth away from the FACT that ONE county now totally dominates AND Croke Park is largely responsible for that.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9104 - 25/11/2018 01:04:24    2152342

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These are trials not rule changes, how else are you going to evolve a game? You fail to change at your peril let us look at what is proposed and then make a judgement. Saying No for No sake is simply dumb.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3870 - 25/11/2018 11:15:17    2152347

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Replying To DonaldDuck:  "There is two options left to stop these shambles coming into effect in the next few weeks.
One the inter county referees could say we aren't not implimemting the new rules, as it is making their job even more difficult.
Or the most likely option is the the Inter county players going on strike.
I would be in favour of both options, the suits are ruining or bastardising our game.

It's my understand the new rules was one motion and not five separate motions.

Shambles

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1759 - 24/11/2018 20:36:36
Calling them a shambles is a bit OTT. Why not trial them and see them in action before judging them?
Inter county players wont strike and refs are not going to not impliment the rules.
Saying suits are ruining the game is nonsense. These so called suits are club people as much as me or you."
the rules have already been trialled in college challenge games and they were a complete shambles...the teams who were not in possession soon learned to drop everyone behind the ball because after two handpasses the ball had to be kicked...the result?..teams kicking ball to a crowd of defenders inside the 45...also the advance mark...ball kicked to one attacker surrounded by defenders looking to break the ball....sideline kick...defending team all retreating behind the ball.....the rules actually ENCOURAGE getting 14 and 15 men behind the ball...it is a shambles!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1614 - 25/11/2018 12:13:49    2152352

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I don't like the new rules and believe they will cause confusion and anger. Are they going to put a referee in each half because how in the name is a ref to keep track of all these rules?

Pat Spillane and his ilk yearn about the catch and kick days of the past but a look online and at results show you football was crap enough back then in many games and there were many one sided hammerings but sure when Kerry were dishing them out it was all ok.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 9371 - 25/11/2018 12:57:05    2152357

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "I rarely comment anymore but on this topic I will only say that the GAA is tinkering around the rules BECAUSE it covers and hides the fact that the MAIN problem is the disparity and gap between Dublin and the rest. If the media and GAA convince the fans that the problem is tactics, too much hand passing, not enough kicking etc THEN the masses will be deflected away from the reality that what is REALLY destroying Gaelic football is the fact that we have ONE team that is professional in all but name and who will dominate for years to come. However if you tell people a different thing and focus away from the reality then many will eventually accept and believe it. I like Dublin, I ALWAYS have BUT these 'rule changes' are Emperor's New Clothes nonsense to take the focus and truth away from the FACT that ONE county now totally dominates AND Croke Park is largely responsible for that."
Its quite amazing and coincidental the number and frequency of rule changes and trials of new rules since Dublin have been "gifted" their dominance, would make you think.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1893 - 25/11/2018 14:06:40    2152360

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Just my own opinion, the game is on life support. Its been mostly poor since the early noughties when a few select sides discovered flooding defence and playing cynical games based around stopping the opposition works. They won All-Irelands out of nowhere and the game changed to suit that trend. Fast forward 10/15 years and traditional powerhouses are disinterested at best, former upcoming counties have dissapeared, and a phenomenol Dublin team now dominates whilst everyone else plays a mish-mash game of basketball/rugby league that is about as boring as any field game. I love this game, but something has to give and it must adapt to change because the jig is up and has been for years. It needs radical reform.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 22 - 25/11/2018 14:21:10    2152361

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right now Ballintubber are playing corofin....when corofin are in posession, ballintubber have 14 men behind the ball thus forcing corofin into endless hand passing, and kick passing across the pitch...these new rules will encourage more of this...corofin are trying to break down a packed defence, but they will be penalised for trying to find a way through it...CRAZY!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1614 - 25/11/2018 14:22:24    2152362

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Replying To arock:  "These are trials not rule changes, how else are you going to evolve a game? You fail to change at your peril let us look at what is proposed and then make a judgement. Saying No for No sake is simply dumb."
the rules have already been trialled in college challeng games and were shown to be a shambles...why are we still trialling them in one of our most important inter county competitions?...a disgrace!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1614 - 25/11/2018 14:34:05    2152364

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Replying To arock:  "These are trials not rule changes, how else are you going to evolve a game? You fail to change at your peril let us look at what is proposed and then make a judgement. Saying No for No sake is simply dumb."
Sorry to disagree. As much as I preferred the game of 50 years ago all sports evolve naturally with time. The problem with Gaelic Football as it evolved bad changes were made period. Even if they were for the best intentions. We know the kicking out of the hand was to try and compensate for the often bad winter conditions looking for a place to put the ball down and supposedly speed up the game. It was never intended for to allow a free 21 yds out to the left but by the time the player kicks the ball he is 14 yds out in front of the goal. Implement the rules first and punish cynical play properly. As soon as players are sent off regular or 3 penalties a game called against them the nonsense will stop.
If you are going to tweak the rules it has to be minor, seamless and administrable. Counting hand passes? If any tinkering is seen to have major impact on how the game is played it is probable doomed to fail. Why ? Because it is going to be exploited. Reluctantly I would suggest a small tweak that the ball should be dead ball kicked for frees and sideline inside the 50 yd line by the attacking side. I know this is tinkering but minor.
You are right these are trials. However doing so many makes it difficult to evaluate and I guarantee will end up in more bad permanent rules that can not be or won't be. enforced. Again enforce the rules, punish bad behaviour/professional fouling and tweak with a light hand if at all.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 407 - 25/11/2018 14:39:03    2152365

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The administration around this is a mess as well. Announce it 1 week before county training camps begin.

Put a whole winter into refining skill sets around this, not knowing whether these rules are going to stick for the championship or not, probably until Congress in February.

Just think it messes around with preparation and oaks any long term clarity.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1893 - 25/11/2018 15:27:03    2152367

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "right now Ballintubber are playing corofin....when corofin are in posession, ballintubber have 14 men behind the ball thus forcing corofin into endless hand passing, and kick passing across the pitch...these new rules will encourage more of this...corofin are trying to break down a packed defence, but they will be penalised for trying to find a way through it...CRAZY!"
I wouldnt be so sure. The idea of kicking the ball would be that there would more turnovers as kicking is less accurate than handpassing. Just becasue there is a limit of 3 passes doesnt mean you need to use the 3 passes evrey time you gain possesion. The rule will need time but already its doomed to failure by many. Give it a chance to change the game. Thats is what most fans want from what I hear.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 516 - 25/11/2018 16:12:39    2152368

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