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Why Are We Changing Our Game?!

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I am 100% against every new rule change that is due to be trialed and introduced into our game.

Football has been around for over 100 years and just because of a 'bad' 10-15 years we are all hitting the panic button and making changes that don't improve the game.......they CHANGE the game.

I love this sport and I am genuinely worried about its future if these are introduced.

I see it as a reflection of modern society.......something is not perfect or going our way in life so let's - ban it, cancel it, change it.

Is there any thinking out there similar to me?! I really think a massive full stakeholder involvement is required if rules changes of this magnitude are to be introduced.

DontChangeAThing (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 15/11/2018 22:15:43    2151271

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100% agree. Football has changed so much because of a failure to enforce 2 fundamental rules of the game. The tackle and number of steps allowed. Yes tactics have changed a lot over the last 20 years but these are a symptom of the lax enforcement of the rules. They are not the cause. I posted the below on another thread.

I have no faith in top brass's ability to improve the game and their constant introduction of new rules will ruin the game. If they implemented the rules that are already there, and have been there since the game began, there would be no need for this constant tinkering and we would see a very different game. Two crucial rules have been ignored for at least 20 years and it has drastically changed the way the game has developed and the type of players now chosen to play. It has also drastically changed players decision making with forwards now rarely ever taking on an opponent because 9 times out of 10 they will lose the ball.
Quoted from the official GAA rule book.

When a player is in possession of the ball, it may be:-
(a) carried for a maximum of four consecutive steps or held in the hand(s) for no longer than the time needed to take four steps;

17.Football: The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play.
A tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact allowed is that in the course of a Fair Charge one player only with at least one foot on the ground , makes a shoulder to shoulder charge on the player in possession.

Failure to implement the four step rule has left legitimate tackling almost impossible. Power is now more desirable over skill and players constantly grapple arms and when behind an opponent use their body strength to leverage over the shoulder of the opponent and halt his progress and get ball side again. In their defense the opponent is usually over carrying. It would be very hard to correct this now as it has become so ingrained but a good place to start would be any contact over the shoulders and especially near the neck area when tackling should be immediately penalized. Then gradually get stricter on tackling where the sole focus is not on the ball and get stricter on steps until we get back to where players are playing by the rules intended. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 905 - 15/11/2018 23:44:40    2151275

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Replying To DontChangeAThing:  "I am 100% against every new rule change that is due to be trialed and introduced into our game.

Football has been around for over 100 years and just because of a 'bad' 10-15 years we are all hitting the panic button and making changes that don't improve the game.......they CHANGE the game.

I love this sport and I am genuinely worried about its future if these are introduced.

I see it as a reflection of modern society.......something is not perfect or going our way in life so let's - ban it, cancel it, change it.

Is there any thinking out there similar to me?! I really think a massive full stakeholder involvement is required if rules changes of this magnitude are to be introduced."
if you love the sport you are bound to realise a change is needed. Obviously, it's not what any of us want but for the game to become exciting to spectators again it needs to change.

allfermanagh (Fermanagh) - Posts: 25 - 16/11/2018 08:52:15    2151283

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If you look at the matches from the 80s, a lot of them are stop start.

Ball is kicked, player is fouled and everyone gets back into position for
the free from the ground.

The best rule change we ever made was to allow frees to be taken from the
hand as it speeds up the game.

There does seem to be too many rule changes at once but lets try them and
see which work and which dont.

We should never fear a bit of change.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 840 - 16/11/2018 09:48:59    2151287

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as carlovia said,never fear change.

change is great for every game,if i had my way we would have yearly changes where people see changes to be needed.
unless you see something different,the product of gaelic football is now terrible to watch.

i would even propose changes in hurling,in spite of the hurling snobs insisting the game is perfect.for example,throwing a hurl towards an opponent should be a straight red card,the number of steps needs to be policed far more rigidly than it is,i think the throw in should be replaced by a ball thrown in the air and 2 players (with hurls down) try to catch it,it would save players shins and ankles and the mess that is a throw in at this time of year.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3045 - 16/11/2018 10:14:09    2151290

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Replying To carlovia:  "If you look at the matches from the 80s, a lot of them are stop start.

Ball is kicked, player is fouled and everyone gets back into position for
the free from the ground.

The best rule change we ever made was to allow frees to be taken from the
hand as it speeds up the game.

There does seem to be too many rule changes at once but lets try them and
see which work and which dont.

We should never fear a bit of change."
If you look at games from the 80s and 90s tackling was completely different. People look back and say defending was naive but defenders were severely restricted on physical contact they could apply to man in possession. Their attention was to ball only. If they missed their tackles and held up the man they had to immediately release. Often the first challenge they made to an onrushing player was the shoulder charge to halt his momentum, as per the rules. Nowadays the player would be just held up. There was plenty of congestion in defense with men back but forwards were allowed to take their men on much more and they soloed and jinked much more because 4 steps only were permitted.
Managers nowadays look for forwards who can break the tackle. Back then there was no such thing because holding players up with no focus on the ball was a foul. It's a facet of the game that shouldn't exist but now it's a huge prerequisite when selecting players.
Here's 2 games from Ulster that are good examples of how different it was then. There are plenty more. Look at how defenders are tackling. They can only focus on the ball which makes the game much more free flowing. The rules have not changed since but application and interpretation of them are now light years away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU9q8J4xShs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxU9aCiLW3o

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 905 - 16/11/2018 12:21:31    2151305

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I am 100% against every new rule change that is due to be trialed and introduced into our game.
Football has been around for over 100 years and just because of a 'bad' 10-15 years we are all hitting the panic button and making changes that don't improve the game.......they CHANGE the game.
I love this sport and I am genuinely worried about its future if these are introduced.
I see it as a reflection of modern society.......something is not perfect or going our way in life so let's - ban it, cancel it, change it.
Is there any thinking out there similar to me?! I really think a massive full stakeholder involvement is required if rules changes of this magnitude are to be introduced.
DontChangeAThing (Meath) - Posts: 3 - 15/11/2018 22:15:43
The key thing about this is they are trials. Gaelic has been around for over 100 years and 10-15 years is a very considerable percentage.
This isnt hitting a panic button. Its a natural evolution.
The sport isnt going to be worse because of these changes.
When you say full stakeholder involvement what should that be?

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 417 - 16/11/2018 13:06:50    2151310

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The only new rules Id agree with is the mark closer to goal, it reward quick ball in, good kick pass and catching or reward a defender reading the game and making the catch. It will hopefully bring defences out, it wont suit zonal defences as players can find space to make a mark.
The sin bin is a good idea but the refs are so inconsistent with the black card, i cant see it going to well.

Other rules are not good, having to go forward from a sideline ball is a joke, its basically telling the player to kick it away, 50/50 ball most of the time. Its going to suit defensive teams cause you know they cant kick it backwards so drop everyone everyone back and wait for the 50/50 ball is coming in.
The kickout is also a joke, there be no high fielding now at all, it will all be about pace, a player running onto a kickout, so a team will probably put there 2 fastest players in the middle and tell them to run into where the space is.
The handpass rule should be at least 5 or the restriction should be when you go past halfway or something like that.

tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 219 - 16/11/2018 13:52:40    2151316

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If I had my way, we'd change a lot more than the rules. We'd change the provincial system also!

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 191 - 16/11/2018 14:55:02    2151326

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Replying To perfect10:  "as carlovia said,never fear change.

change is great for every game,if i had my way we would have yearly changes where people see changes to be needed.
unless you see something different,the product of gaelic football is now terrible to watch.

i would even propose changes in hurling,in spite of the hurling snobs insisting the game is perfect.for example,throwing a hurl towards an opponent should be a straight red card,the number of steps needs to be policed far more rigidly than it is,i think the throw in should be replaced by a ball thrown in the air and 2 players (with hurls down) try to catch it,it would save players shins and ankles and the mess that is a throw in at this time of year."
Agree with you there. Hurling needs a lot more drastic surgery in my opinion. Cody era hurling and rules has turned me off the game and many more off the game (at inter County level anyway).

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3660 - 16/11/2018 17:12:29    2151342

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Don't get me wrong it has been poor but changing the game is not the answer.

Coaches and those at underage need to promote and train the game the right way. Encourage skills, free flowing football and attacking.

Take the bandpass rule for example........i am not sure exactly how it will be policed?! Are players expected to count handpasses as they go along and how stupid will it look if a player needs the handpass to get out of trouble but is forced to just kick it to nowhere! As a Meath an, my fav goal of all timeis Kevin Foley in 1991 Game 4, to finish off that brilliant goal we had 7 successive handpasses......a goal seen as one of the best team goals ever.

If a team has worked the ball forward and a goal chance is on but the handpass limit has been reached, a team is forced to kick......do we not want to promote goals?!

Another favourite of mine is the mark (sarc).......so we are moving to playing AFL?! High fielding is superb and brilliant to watch but does that mean smaller players are not allowed display their skills. For example, not every full back is 6ft plus monster.........my team fullback is not the biggest man in the world but he is a superb tackler......if high balls are played in and he never gets to show these skills (and tackling is a skill) then what is purpose on playing. High fielding as a skill cannot be valued more than tackling or blocking.

Everyone please take a step back and really think about these rules changes......not the knee jerk reaction. This WILL NOT save our game. Better promotion of the game and coaching the game on the right way will.

DontChangeAThing (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 16/11/2018 19:12:07    2151350

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It's an over reaction to what has been a bit of a slack time for football, Dublin's dominance added to a few other big counties having leaner times has made for a more uncompetitive championship, strangely when the same happened in hurling no such rule changes were introduced and the game naturally fixed itself.
Now that's not saying that football is fine as it is played now, there have been some ugly introductions from a coaching perspective, it seems to me the more professional the coaching side of the game has become the less attractive the game is and that is down to coaches putting the % over entertainment and risk all the time. I'm not for a second suggesting we go back to the 80s or 70s as football was a horrible spectacle then but I would like to see teams play with a bit more risk to their games. I was looking at Kildare Vs Meath 97 a cpl of weeks ago, what a game, skill speed risk all to the fore, great fielding in the forward lines long accurate kicking, nice handpassing moves, great scores, somehow we have regressed from this to a game of low risk low entertainment high on caution. I'd like to see that change but I'm not sure you can engineer it. It's has to be natural and it has to change at a coaching level

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1175 - 17/11/2018 09:28:04    2151386

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "It's an over reaction to what has been a bit of a slack time for football, Dublin's dominance added to a few other big counties having leaner times has made for a more uncompetitive championship, strangely when the same happened in hurling no such rule changes were introduced and the game naturally fixed itself.
Now that's not saying that football is fine as it is played now, there have been some ugly introductions from a coaching perspective, it seems to me the more professional the coaching side of the game has become the less attractive the game is and that is down to coaches putting the % over entertainment and risk all the time. I'm not for a second suggesting we go back to the 80s or 70s as football was a horrible spectacle then but I would like to see teams play with a bit more risk to their games. I was looking at Kildare Vs Meath 97 a cpl of weeks ago, what a game, skill speed risk all to the fore, great fielding in the forward lines long accurate kicking, nice handpassing moves, great scores, somehow we have regressed from this to a game of low risk low entertainment high on caution. I'd like to see that change but I'm not sure you can engineer it. It's has to be natural and it has to change at a coaching level"
Well said.

DontChangeAThing (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 17/11/2018 09:50:10    2151389

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Replying To DontChangeAThing:  "Don't get me wrong it has been poor but changing the game is not the answer.

Coaches and those at underage need to promote and train the game the right way. Encourage skills, free flowing football and attacking.

Take the bandpass rule for example........i am not sure exactly how it will be policed?! Are players expected to count handpasses as they go along and how stupid will it look if a player needs the handpass to get out of trouble but is forced to just kick it to nowhere! As a Meath an, my fav goal of all timeis Kevin Foley in 1991 Game 4, to finish off that brilliant goal we had 7 successive handpasses......a goal seen as one of the best team goals ever.

If a team has worked the ball forward and a goal chance is on but the handpass limit has been reached, a team is forced to kick......do we not want to promote goals?!

Another favourite of mine is the mark (sarc).......so we are moving to playing AFL?! High fielding is superb and brilliant to watch but does that mean smaller players are not allowed display their skills. For example, not every full back is 6ft plus monster.........my team fullback is not the biggest man in the world but he is a superb tackler......if high balls are played in and he never gets to show these skills (and tackling is a skill) then what is purpose on playing. High fielding as a skill cannot be valued more than tackling or blocking.

Everyone please take a step back and really think about these rules changes......not the knee jerk reaction. This WILL NOT save our game. Better promotion of the game and coaching the game on the right way will."
Spot on. The current rules are positive and give us a game that's good to watch if players are encouraged to take risks and play attacking football. Changing the rules but keeping coaches with a more negative mindset won't improve things an awful lot. Negative cautious coaches will find a way to work around new rules and play negative safety first football.

I'm not convinced the state of football is as bad as many report or an awful lot worse than 15 years ago. Social and online media, more camera phones at matches, which were rare 15 years ago, have a lot to answer for. Unfortunately bad news sells.
No point in seeing if something is actually broken before trying to fix it rather than lazily go to drastic measures when there's easier ways to fix it.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 4812 - 17/11/2018 10:30:18    2151391

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While I'd be against knee jerk change I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping the rule book under review and examining what is working and what isn't.

I'm not sold on the changes being mooted at all but I do think something needs to be done with the black card and also the off the ball stuff and swarm tackle which is the ugliest thing in our game IMO.

FWIW I actually thought we saw many teams try to play more positively in 2018 but a lack of overall quality let them down. Most ambitious managers know that negative football is losing football and we'll see tactics continue to evolve in the coming years.

A far bigger issue is that our championship structure sets up lots of mismatches and poor games, that's a debate for a different day though.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 888 - 17/11/2018 11:18:01    2151394

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today in omagh we had a game where there was 83 kick passes, 23 points kicked from play and 4 goals...can someone please shout stop to these rule changes...these rule change proposals will set our game back years...already in the trials, they have found to be a complete farce...the problem is not the rules, and we have as many good games as bad games..stop the nonsense now

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1614 - 18/11/2018 23:20:45    2151569

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "today in omagh we had a game where there was 83 kick passes, 23 points kicked from play and 4 goals...can someone please shout stop to these rule changes...these rule change proposals will set our game back years...already in the trials, they have found to be a complete farce...the problem is not the rules, and we have as many good games as bad games..stop the nonsense now"
The problem is not the rules the problem is coaches and managers sending out teams not to lose game, instead of sending them out to win games.

hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 935 - 19/11/2018 09:30:36    2151586

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Replying To hurlorhurley:  "The problem is not the rules the problem is coaches and managers sending out teams not to lose game, instead of sending them out to win games."
Coaches and managers always look to innovate and take advantage wherever they can. 6/7 steps seems to be allowed now along with full body contact, grappling arms and holding up players with no pressure on the ball. Where in the rule book does it say this is ok?

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 905 - 19/11/2018 14:05:33    2151636

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I don't think changing rules is a sign of weakness tbh. Many sports have modified their rules when it became clear that teams had spotted a loophole allowing them to disrupt more attractive sides.

They used to have a free-for-all contest at the lineout in rugby union, for instance, whereas now the side in possession can lift their players. IMO it makes for a less messy spectacle. Similarly, allowing the attacking side to retain the throw-in to the lineout following a penalty rewards the team trying to play.

Soccer used to have a three man offside rule, changing it to two allowed for better attacking play.

Basketball introduced a shot clock to keep the game flowing.

There will always be teams who seek to keep the game as tight as possible in order to win, it's up to the authorities to determine whether the game is better served by keeping it open.

Whether the proposed rules will work out or not may be a different story.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1546 - 21/11/2018 11:59:01    2151974

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Replying To Gleebo:  "I don't think changing rules is a sign of weakness tbh. Many sports have modified their rules when it became clear that teams had spotted a loophole allowing them to disrupt more attractive sides.

They used to have a free-for-all contest at the lineout in rugby union, for instance, whereas now the side in possession can lift their players. IMO it makes for a less messy spectacle. Similarly, allowing the attacking side to retain the throw-in to the lineout following a penalty rewards the team trying to play.

Soccer used to have a three man offside rule, changing it to two allowed for better attacking play.

Basketball introduced a shot clock to keep the game flowing.

There will always be teams who seek to keep the game as tight as possible in order to win, it's up to the authorities to determine whether the game is better served by keeping it open.

Whether the proposed rules will work out or not may be a different story."
Of course if rule changes make for a better game then it can only be a good thing but if you're ignoring the rules already there to the detriment of the game then changes to other rules may be flawed.
It seems obvious to me that tackling has changed dramatically and over carrying is ignored. The blanket was a huge innovation to defending and made for bad spectacles but the blanket was enabled by allowing over physical tackling and holding of players up. Coaches saw this flaw and took advantage. If the tackle rule was applied to the letter of the law then the game would naturally open up. One thing countering the blanket has achieved though is a skill improvement in point taking and kick passing. But you see less of forwards taking men on and making their own scores. Scores generally come from picking out openings and getting a forward in space.
Despite all the criticisms of the game the skill levels have probably improved. And I think addressing the tackle and steps could really open it up and make for a better spectacle.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 905 - 21/11/2018 12:52:23    2151988

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