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Interesting article in media over the weekend on my own county (Offaly) and the reality that they might not win an All Ireland again/near future, just seen another post here saying about football decline in Cork and Meath, the latter whom I fear are slipping at an alarming rate also...anyone out there have fears for their own or any other county who may have won an All Ireland in either code previously but who now appear unlikely to win one again anytime soon or indeed ever again...
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 11/11/2018 21:31:10
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "Interesting article in media over the weekend on my own county (Offaly) and the reality that they might not win an All Ireland again/near future, just seen another post here saying about football decline in Cork and Meath, the latter whom I fear are slipping at an alarming rate also...anyone out there have fears for their own or any other county who may have won an All Ireland in either code previously but who now appear unlikely to win one again anytime soon or indeed ever again..." Mayo...
I don't believe it, just thought I'd get in there before any other comedians.
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 497 - 11/11/2018 22:11:34
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In football I can think of 6 counties who have won the All Ireland but barring a Foinavon Grand National type of circumstances will not win the title in the next 100 years at least and another 2 who are most unlikely to achieve another victory in that period of time.
In hurling I could name 4 counties who won't add to their list of senior hurling All Ireland's in the next 100 years. Will leave it to people from those counties to name them if they want. The only one I'll name is London cos I think we'd all agree on that one.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1904 - 11/11/2018 22:23:36
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Louth.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/11/2018 23:40:13
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Louth
Cavan
Wexford
Tipperary
Limerick
and very possibly
Meath
Offaly
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 12/11/2018 00:13:45
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Replying To streaker: "Mayo...
I don't believe it, just thought I'd get in there before any other comedians." You beat me too it!
The_DOC (Galway) - Posts: 709 - 12/11/2018 08:19:14
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I'd unfortunately agree with many of the above picks having practically no chance of winning another AI title under the current format.
The question that's coming is would the same counties prefer to continue with their current reality (having zero chance) while playing very little football or would they prefer playing in a competition with the promise of additional Inter county games against teams of a similar standard who all have a realistic chance of winning silverware. Once again very importantly enjoying vital game time to encourage progress and further their efforts to get back to a place where they'll be challenging once again
It's a sad fact that many teams have zero chance, would a new competition benefit teams and hopefully grow expectation and belief to a point that encourages progress back to the top table?
It would be a great thing to be able to shorten the above list of counties and for me the key to that is for struggling county teams to be playing more games and winning more games. Winning breeds winning but you have to start somewhere.. as it stands a lot of counties are going nowhere fast and it's blatantly obvious that something needs to be done.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 12/11/2018 12:11:32
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I think its unlikely youll see a novel win again for a long long long time
Dublin/kerry to dominate
222 (UK) - Posts: 695 - 12/11/2018 12:27:33
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Replying To jimbodub: "I'd unfortunately agree with many of the above picks having practically no chance of winning another AI title under the current format.
The question that's coming is would the same counties prefer to continue with their current reality (having zero chance) while playing very little football or would they prefer playing in a competition with the promise of additional Inter county games against teams of a similar standard who all have a realistic chance of winning silverware. Once again very importantly enjoying vital game time to encourage progress and further their efforts to get back to a place where they'll be challenging once again
It's a sad fact that many teams have zero chance, would a new competition benefit teams and hopefully grow expectation and belief to a point that encourages progress back to the top table?
It would be a great thing to be able to shorten the above list of counties and for me the key to that is for struggling county teams to be playing more games and winning more games. Winning breeds winning but you have to start somewhere.. as it stands a lot of counties are going nowhere fast and it's blatantly obvious that something needs to be done." Yep. It has always baffled me that players up and down the country have no qualms about there being junior, intermediate and senior grades at club level. County hurling has no such qualms either but if you dare mention it in a county footballing context it's almost blasphemous (or not, given the recent political results!)
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 12/11/2018 12:38:55
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yep. It has always baffled me that players up and down the country have no qualms about there being junior, intermediate and senior grades at club level. County hurling has no such qualms either but if you dare mention it in a county footballing context it's almost blasphemous (or not, given the recent political results!)" I absolutely agree with you. I was expecting down thumbs if I'm honest for posting that
PS nice gag! Haha
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 12/11/2018 13:06:17
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yep. It has always baffled me that players up and down the country have no qualms about there being junior, intermediate and senior grades at club level. County hurling has no such qualms either but if you dare mention it in a county footballing context it's almost blasphemous (or not, given the recent political results!)" And look at the respect these lower level competitions are being shown in hurling.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 12/11/2018 13:12:09
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Ah but lads, look at the crowds the lower level of hurling attracts, well actually you can't because they get almost no air time. I don't want to go too far into this because it's a seperate topic, but we already have a competition where teams play at their own level = the league. What's the point in having a league and then a championship which is effectively another league, where's our cup competition under that structure?
As for who will never win another All-Ireland, honestly it's just pure speculation, granted some giants have gone asleep and don't look like waking up anytime soon but who knows what the future holds. I certainly don't, if I did, I'd be straight down to do the Euromillions!!
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 12/11/2018 13:17:55
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Replying To realdub: "Louth
Cavan
Wexford
Tipperary
Limerick
and very possibly
Meath
Offaly" Limerick, Tipp and Wexford?
Football maybe that is true....small ball I would have my doubts.
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 12/11/2018 13:28:56
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My own county Roscommon. At best in my remaining lifetime we might reach Monaghan's level of reaching AI semi final in the years to come. We last reached the All Ireland final in 1980 and were inches away from reaching the AI final in 1991. We had two recent U21 teams that reached AI finals, our U17s reached the AI final last year and our 2006 minors that won the AI while we had many club teams that reached AI finals in the last decade but the days of small counties like ourselves reaching AI senior finals is sadly over by the looks of it.
ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2487 - 12/11/2018 13:29:40
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Replying To seanfinn: "Limerick, Tipp and Wexford?
Football maybe that is true....small ball I would have my doubts." Yes sorry, in football.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 12/11/2018 14:32:22
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Replying To Htaem: "Ah but lads, look at the crowds the lower level of hurling attracts, well actually you can't because they get almost no air time. I don't want to go too far into this because it's a seperate topic, but we already have a competition where teams play at their own level = the league. What's the point in having a league and then a championship which is effectively another league, where's our cup competition under that structure?
As for who will never win another All-Ireland, honestly it's just pure speculation, granted some giants have gone asleep and don't look like waking up anytime soon but who knows what the future holds. I certainly don't, if I did, I'd be straight down to do the Euromillions!!" Yeah that's true. The GAA are a disaster at marketing in fairness. They're not so slow when it comes to organising a junket to the other side of the world though. I don't think a 3 tier football championship would work. But with the right people promoting a properly structured and rewarded B competition I think a 2 tier system has potential to work. It would take a bit of dynamic thinking but wouldn't be totally unfeasible.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 12/11/2018 15:27:12
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Replying To Htaem: "Ah but lads, look at the crowds the lower level of hurling attracts, well actually you can't because they get almost no air time. I don't want to go too far into this because it's a seperate topic, but we already have a competition where teams play at their own level = the league. What's the point in having a league and then a championship which is effectively another league, where's our cup competition under that structure?
As for who will never win another All-Ireland, honestly it's just pure speculation, granted some giants have gone asleep and don't look like waking up anytime soon but who knows what the future holds. I certainly don't, if I did, I'd be straight down to do the Euromillions!!" Would agree with this. A second tier would only serve to widen the gap that is already there. Would reduce interest/support which in turn would reduce finances which already under pressure. In 2010 if you said sam would be in donegal in 2 years you would be laughed out the gate.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 12/11/2018 15:47:15
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Interesting topic but even more interesting is the number of posters who apparently can see what will happen over the next hundred years. Such a gift could be invaluable.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 12/11/2018 16:11:35
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It impossible to speculate.
But one thing I noticed is that there is still a bigger chance of teams not winning Sam if say the weight of history is on their shoulders eg a couple of generation gaps between All Ireland wins . This is a obstacle for teams.
Look at Mayo . When a county has not won an All Ireland in a couple of generations or a county hasnt won an All Ireland in 50 years plus this becomes an issue.
For example no football county has closed a 50 year plus gap between All Ireland wins. The biggest gaps we had between All Ireland wins recently was Galway in 1998 when they closed a 32 year gap.
The Longest gaps between sucessive All Ireland wins r
1 Louth 45 years (1912 to 1957)
2 Cork 34 years (1911 to 1945)
3 Galway 32 years (1966 to 1998)
4 Cork 28 years (1945 to 1973)
5 Down 23 years (1968 to 1991)
6 Wexford 22 year (1893 to 1915)
7 Cork 21 years (1890 to 1911)
So only Down in 91 and Galway in 98 have closed big gaps in modern times and no county in football has ever closed a 46 year plus gap between All.Ireland wins.
It seems to me when a county has not won an All Ireland for 40, 50 or 60 years plus this becomes an issue. Look at Mayo. That weight of history going back to 1951 does a play a role. Its not just football its even professional sports.
In hurling the only two counties to close massive gaps where Galway in 1981 , which was a 50 year plus gap and Clare in 1995 which was 70 to 80 year plus gaps. And it took extraordinary figures like Ger Loughnane to do this. Look at the Irish rugby team look at how hard it took them to win Grand Slam in 09. We had a better team then Wales in 00s, but Wales could look back to the 70s for Grand Slams , Ireland had to look back to 1940s. Wales found it easier to win Grand Slams in 00s. Ireland struggled with the weight of history.
Look at soccer Chelsea r only team that have closed a 50 to 60 year gap between league wins. And took Mourinho when he used to be one of the greatest managers ever to achieve it. Look at how Spurs have failed to win league title since 1960s or Newcastle since 1920s. It even has a weight of history in professional sports.
When a county or team dont win a top title for a couple of generations eg 50 years plus it becomes a massive obstacle to get over. The team that won in the past, becomes legendary and immortal eg Mayo 1951 , and following teams are always compared and find the weight of history an issue.
If people say it is not , well two points, look at Mayo, I gurantee if Mayo won Sam in 60s or 89 or 96 they would have won an All Ireland in this decade. And my second point no team has even closed a 50 year gap in All Ireland wins in football. Its never been done . So it clearly hasnt been done.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 12/11/2018 16:27:08
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yeah that's true. The GAA are a disaster at marketing in fairness. They're not so slow when it comes to organising a junket to the other side of the world though. I don't think a 3 tier football championship would work. But with the right people promoting a properly structured and rewarded B competition I think a 2 tier system has potential to work. It would take a bit of dynamic thinking but wouldn't be totally unfeasible." I know what you're saying Lockjaw and I prefer not to dismiss something completely, I think people should be open to new suggestions.
Sadly though all previous evidence points to the fact that Gaa just doesn't care about 2nd tier competitions. I'll give them credit enough to say that they want and try to care but it just never works out. Also the media who are under no real obligation to the Gaa would focus almost exclusively on the top tier, a tiered championship could end up doing more damage that in the long run.
Maybe if the the top 3 or 4 teams from the 2nd tier were guaranteed a route to the main championship KO in the same year that might ignite interest. But team in div3 and 4 would be very silly to roll over and play dead if a 2nd tier is introduced, they should fight their corner every step of the way.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 12/11/2018 16:57:50
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