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Thanks for being fair and saying Meath have potential . The rest of your post is true also. Meath cud end up going up and down. But even 1 year in divsion 1. That season wud bring us on. Listen we have to go up first. And that is going to be tough. And staying in div 1 even tougher. If we went up in 2014 2015 2017 or 2018 the years we lost at to promotion by scoring and point and head to head, we wud have went straight back down. But if we cud go up this year or next. Which is still a big task seen we have an extraordinary mind-boggling 16 or 17 of last 19 years in div 2. If cud get out of div 2. I wud have hope why? 1 If we went up in last 4 to 5 years our players were not physically strong enough for top teams. We have a small team. In last few years at minor under 21 and senior Dublin and kildare have had bigger more powerful teams physically stronger with great atleticism. Meath player have been turned over in the tackle over and over again at every age group v Dublin and kildare teams. Have ever last year our strenght and conditioning had improved. And watching our county players in club action recently they all look like tanks. Allot of our players have had 3 to 4 years of strength and conditioning. Armagh had strenght and conditioning programmes and coachs in 2002. McGeeney made sure strenght and conditioning was very important at all levels for kildare teams. And kildares sucess at underage you can see their strength and conditioning is very good. Meath have only really took on strenght and conditioning in last 4 or 5 years. So I believe our player will be physically stronger in the next couple of seasons. I hope and expect to see Meath players for the first time time since 2009 and 2010 ( when we had a big powerful team which cud hammer Dublin and lose to great kerry team of 00s by couple of points in 2009 All Ireland semi final) , I hope to see our players because of years of strenght and conditioning physically stronger in the tackle. This area had been very poor for Meath since 2010. 2 Secondly our players allot of them our hitting the mid 20s. The class of 2011 who reached All-Ireland minor final will be all reaching the age that players peak in every sport eg mid to late 20s eg players from 2011 minor finalist eg Cillian Sullivan James and Shane McEntee Harry Rooney Adam Flanagan Paddy Kennelly Barry Dardis and Brian Power. 3 Thirdly as I keep saying we do have a great tradition and record v the top and the excellent performances v Tyrone Donegal and Galway prove that. 4 Navan is still a tough place to win 5 Even reaching div 1 wud be a massive boost for Meath. The county has had a near 20 year residency in div 2. Which has meant stagnation lack of team development pickung up bad habit and poor game management. Even 1 year in div 1 wud be a great experience and bring on our players. When was the last time Meath played Kerry Dublin or Mayo in the league. Meath playing Dublin in Navan or Meath going down to Castlebar. These wud be great experiences for our players. Stuck in div 2 for near 2 decades after spending nearly 60 years in division 1 , that division 2 residency has sucked the life out of Meath football. It has meant we have stagnated as a football.county. Getting out of div 2 wud be a serious morale booster that shouldn't be underestimated. Look at how Galway adapted to div 1. And Meath have played Galway 5 times in the last 6 or 7 years and Meath were beaten only once by Galway in 5 games. Division one football wud be brillant for Meath football even for 1 year. The final point also is so true is also right. We need to find the right guy / manager. The problem is we have always had a problem producing top quality and managers. We produced one of the greatest if not the greatest manager of all time in Boylan. Other then that there have no great Meath managers and a serious lack Meath men as inter county coachs or managers managing in other counties or even in Meath. Galway have never had a great manager. Down other then Pete McGrath have failed to produce other great managers. And look at Cork. The reason they have been declined since 2010. One of the reasons is they havent had a top class manager. While Kerry Dublin and Mayo always produced quality managers and coach. Look at Mayo managers since mid 00s eg John Maughan John O Mahoney James Horan and Stephen Rochford. Look at when Galvin retire , Dublin cud pick Dessie Farrell Pat Gilroy or Tommy Conroy as manager. kildare also have produced inter county managers from Luke Dempsey to Niall Carew. And next kildare manger will be a choice between Under 21 leinster winning and under 21 All Ireland finalist and former longford manager Glen Ryan or Under 20 All Ireland winning manger Davy Burke. Meath if McEntee fails have no one to take over. The manager people are mentioning as next Meath manager was over two strong Meath underage and couldn't get eitheir of them to a leinster final. If McEntee fails and he is best manager we have by a mile. There is no outstanding candidates there are no sucessful Meath manager other then Colm O Rourke ( And o Rourke is unlikely to become Meath manager at 60 age plus ). An area we need to improve in massively is coaching and managing. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 17/11/2018 22:36:44 2151426 Link 1 |
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When if you take that logic you could say then when kildare performed well against Tyrone Donegal and Monaghan last year you could then say those other teams were having " off" days. But that wud be mean spirited and unfair to kildare. The same way saying that Meaths performances v top teams were also down to off days that wud be also unfair and mean spirited. The fact is kildares performances v Monaghan in championship Donegal in the league were because kildare played well and showed good potential. The same way if we are fair to Meath , Meaths performances v Tyrone and Donegal were down to Meath playing well and showed good potential. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 17/11/2018 22:55:30 2151429 Link 1 |
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Again I knew instead of given Meath their fair dues for strong performances, Meath good performances are always downgraded and criticised even when we won Sam . The reasons u gave for Meaths strong performances are dubious enough reasons given why Meath played well. Again you didnt answer this question, Name 1 team in div 2 , div 3 and div 4 who performed v four provicial champions in last two years well. Name one county other then Meath. Can u name one team who played well in div 2 3 or 4 v 4 top teams, seen you say teams train harder and focus when they play better teams. Surely there must be a list of top teams outside div 1 who performed well 4 times in two years v best teams in country , if we follow ur logic. Why didnt other counties train harder be the underdog and play well v top counties. Your arguement makes no sense. That wud mean all counties play better v teams in higher division if u follow your logic. How come so many teams Tyrone beat from lower divisions last year were by massive scores. Did these teams outside div 1 did they not train harder, work harder and retain better focus when playing a better team like Tyrone this year. Why did they not perform? Tyrone defeated Carlow by 10 points and Cork by 16 points and Roscommon by 19 points in the championship this year . Your logic would mean those counties would have trained harder, worked harder and retain better focus when playing a better team eg Tyrone. Yet how come Carlow and Cork and Roscommon were beating by an aggregate score of 45 points while Meath lost by 1 point. Your logic is every team train harder and work harder then play well v top teams. In every sport its obvious not every team in lower division does not always play well v top teams, even if they focus and train harder before facing opposition in an higher division . You said I cherry picked games. True. But you cherry picked also the bad performances and ignored the good performances. Yes Meath have had bad performances. Meath are inconsistent v div 2 or div 3 teams. Thats a fact. But what people ignore is Meath play v well consistently v provicial champions, some of the best teams in the country in last 2 years. That is a positive for any team. It not cherry picking, its tells the truth that Meath are inconsistent v div 2 or 3 but consistently play well v best teams. But people always ignore Meaths good performances and cherry pick the bad performances. Meath have mixed the good with the bad in last two years. To anaylsis Meath in last two years fairly you have to mention the good performances and bad performances. The bad performances are a negative and show serious inconsistency and issues Meath need to deal with. But the strong performances are a positive and show Meath are capable of performing well v top teams. That is a good sign. It depends if u ignore a fact or accept a fact. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 17/11/2018 23:49:39 2151431 Link 1 |
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God Help you if you consider Kildare a standout team....they just don't know how to win in trench warfare. Outside of Dublin the only counties that know how to win with fairly decent teams are Meath and Offaly. Forget the glamour boys of Laois and Kildare....guaranteed to flunk it. I would put more money on Wexford to stand up and be counted than them. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1066 - 18/11/2018 01:43:53 2151434 Link 2 |
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As someone who remembers the great battles of the late 1980's it is sad to see the demise of Cork & Meath. The first thing both would need to do is get back into D1 of the league. Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 18/11/2018 09:36:36 2151441 Link 1 |
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You must have missed the Mayo game. Or maybe it was too hard for you to watch it.
St.Conleth (Kildare) - Posts: 1700 - 18/11/2018 09:56:20 2151442 Link 3 |
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Kildare have got a lot of credit for beating Mayo this year...which is funny considering most people think we are finished and crap.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 18/11/2018 10:04:09 2151443 Link 4 |
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I've heard it all now.. you saying "God help you" to someone of the opinion the two teams who got to the super 8's are the standouts in division two and instead saying it should be Offaly.. or Wexford.. mother of God looking at what half the Meath men on here have to say really gives me a good laugh.
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 18/11/2018 11:16:22 2151445 Link 3 |
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Furlong jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 18/11/2018 11:38:31 2151448 Link 3 |
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Agreed. A delusional bunch. This thread about Cork and Meath being in trouble. Well we know we are and I am certainly not confident of going to Division 1. In fact I think Division 3 is a possibility next year as our set up is, staggeringly, getting more amateurish. That said, I think we will stay up. I also think Meath have a better chance of ending up in Division 3 than Division 1. That said, I think Tipperary might go down with Fermanagh. Kildare and Donegal to go straight back up with Armagh the most likely challengers.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 18/11/2018 11:41:18 2151449 Link 2 |
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Derry went from Division 1 to 4 in record time. Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 18/11/2018 12:02:31 2151450 Link 0 |
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Fact 1 Meath were 1 win away from promotion this year in 2018. If Meath defeated Cavan . Just that 1 win. Meath would have been promoted to div 1 this year. Division 2 is always a very tough division at the top of the table. But yes the truth is we defeated Cavan we were promoted. 1 victory away from promotion . Sinilar to 2014 2015 2017 also. Thats a fact. That is ignored. Why not mention that. Any positives must be ignored. Again more examples of attempting to downplay strong Meath performances v top teams. When other certain counties play well v top teams they r praised..When Meath play well v Tyrone and Galway it is completely ignored and everyone just mentions longford and Cavan loses..If we anaylsis all counties , every county outside div 1 who have good performances v strong opposition should be praised and deservedly so, Meaths are ignored and excuses are made for the opposition. I have heard this before for decades. Meath All Irelands , they were downplayed or downgraded. We won double in 88. Never got proper praise for that. Another example. Meath won an All Ireland in 1996 with 7 under 21. The youngest team to lift Sam in 40 years. The only other young team to win Sam with under 21s was Kerry in 1975. In both finals in 1996 a bunch of Meath kids were 6 points down in both finals.Yet at the ages of 20 , the Meath youngsters ,showed remarkable courage to draw the first game and win second game after being 6 points down in both game. It was the greatest performance of bravery and never say die spirit and holding ones nerve by a young team in an All Ireland final ever. Brendan Reilly scored the greatest score in last 50 years to win an All-Ireland final in dying minutes in 1996 . (.Cluxtons was from a free , Reilly was from play , he recieved the ball.at the sideline at an awkward angle . He slipped past the defender and scored an exquisite point from a very tight angle to win Sam). No one ever mentioned that or any of the above. All that is mentioned after and since was the ball bouncing over the bar, the franca and McHale sending off..We never got proper praise when we some Sam Maguire , we are not going to get fairness in analysis now. Now let's look at your excuses or attempts to downgrade Meath performances 1 Galway. Yes Galway are better this year. But Galway were not bad last year..Galway this year are in the top 3 or 4 teams. Last year Galway were in the top 5 6 or 7 teams in country when we defeated them. Last year in 2017 when we defeated Galway 1 Galway won division 2 national league title 2 Last year in 2017 Galway defeated Kildare twice and have done that 4 times in two years 3 Last year in 2017 Galway defeated Mayo All Ireland finalist in the championship for the 3rd time in last few years 4 Last year in 2017 ,Galway reached the last 8 , quarter finals last year. So in summary Galway were stronger this year but last year they were division 2 champions, defeated the All Ireland finalist and second best team in country Mayo in the championship and Galway reached the quarter finals and defeated kildare twice last year. Galway were no mugs last year. Galway were in the top 6 or 7 teams in the country last year. There was a bad Connacht final v Roscommon last year. But Galway have defeated Roscommon twice in the last 3 Connacht finals. And Roscommon with a good young team.were always going to win 1 title after winning 5 Under 21 Connacht titles in a row recently. In their last 2 years the most consistent two teams in the national football league have been Galway and Dublin. 1 Galway topped div 2 in 2017 and won div 2 final in 2017. Galway topped div 2 in 2018 but lost div 1 final to Dublin. 2 Galway played 8 games in div 2 last year in 2017 including the final . Galway won 7 games out of 8 the only loss was to Meath. Galway played 8 games in div 1 this year in 2018 including final. Galways only loss was to Dublin. So in 16 league games in last two years Galway lost only twice once to Dublin and once to Meath. Galways league record 2017 and 2018 16 games 13 wins 1 draw 2 loses. The only teams to beat Galway in the league in last two years were Meath and Dublin. Galway defeated in 2017 and 2018 in the league kildare three times, Cork , Cavan, Derry , Fermanagh, Clare , Kerry, Monaghan, Mayo, Donegal , Tyrone and drew with Dublin. The only teams to beat Galway in national league football in last two years, in 2017 and 2018 was Dublin and Meath. Facts. So in summary Meaths victory in Galway in last years league wasnt a bad result at all. It depends if you downgrade Meath victories it becomes not a great win. 2 Let's take Donegal. Donegal this year were stronger. But last year they were still in top 6 or 7 teams country. 1 Donegal were a top division 1 team in 2017. Donegal finished 3rd in divsion 1 in 2017. Donegal were very unlucky not to reach national league div 1 final in 2017. 2 In 2017 Donegal in div 1 defeated Tyrone and drew with Dublin in Croke Park. Donegal in 2017 drew with one of the greatest teams ever in Croke Park. This shows Donegal were one of the better teams in the country last year , definatly in the top 8 teams. 3 Donegal championship form dipped in the championship but they had one of toughest draws in the country v Tyrone in the earlier rounds. And of course within 12 months they were Ulster champions. 4 Donegal v Meath in 2017 was proper championship match. Both teams tore into each other. Donegal played well and Meath played well. Meath were ahead with 10 mins to go. And both teams were level at beginning of injury time. Magic point from McBreaty won the game. The fact is Donegal last year in 2017 were a division 1 team . As they drew with the best team in the country Dublin in Croke Park. Last year Donegal in 2017 were not div 4 team, not a div 3 team or div 2 team. They finished 3rd behind kerry and Dublin in league division 1 last year. Yes they had bad performances v Galway and Tyrone in 2017. But the fact is in 2017 Donegal were in the top 8 teams in the country. A division 1 team . Fact. 3 Roscomon in 2018. Lets look at the facts. Yes Roscommon are not top 4 or 5 team. But they are around top 8 team around 8th place in standings or so. They are not div 4 3 or 2 team. This year Yes Roscommon struggled in Super 8. But they are not a top 5 or 6 team. They are just outside the top 5 or 6 of Dublin Galway Tyrone Mayo kerry Monaghan Donegal. But they are not div 2 3 or 4 team. They are in top 8 teams in country this year and last year. They have achieved more then say kildare eg stayed in div 1 , and defeated Galway and won provicial title. This year in 2018 1 Roscommon won division 2 title. Topped Division 2 and won the title in div 2 Croker. Which means after next years league Roscommon wud have spent 3 of the last 4 years in div 1. 2 Roscommon reached the quater final/ last 8 in championship in last two years in a row , meaning they have to be considered a top 8 team if u look at achievements. In last two years Roscommon have beaten Galway in a Connacht final , drew with Mayo in Croker in quarter final in championship , reached 2 quarter final / last 8 and won division 2 title and after next year they would have spent 3 of last 4 years in div 1.Yes they have mixed the good with the bad. Bad loses to Mayo and Tyrone. Because Mayo and Tyrone are better. And Roscommon are not a top 4 or 5 team. But they are somwhere around 8th or 9th in All Ireland standing and do derserve the title a top 8 team after winning provicial title and national league div 2 titles and reaching last 8 two years in a row and beating Galway and drawing Mayo in championship in last two years. 4 Tyrone are multiple Ulster title winners , All Ireland finalists and in top 2 or 3 teams in country and are along with Mayo and kerry the only credible challenge to Dublin. So again Meaths performances were against 4 provicial champions, 4 top teams , 4 of best teams in the country . Eg 2 Galway in 2017 were in top 8 teams in the country, Meath defeated them Donegal in 2017 were in top 8 teams in the country, Meath level at injury time Roscommon in 2018 are in top 8 teams in the country, Meath drew with Roscommon in Roscommon Tyrone in 2018 are in top 8 teams in the country and in top 3 teams in country , Meath were ahead of Tyrone in 6th min of injury time in a championship game. In sumary Meath have only played 4 top 8 teams in last week 2 years , 4 provicial champions, Meath performed very strongly and could have won all 4 games , obtaining results in two of the 4 games. Thats a fact. It depends on if you accept that fact or ignore that fact. But those performances did happen. But instead of given Meath praise. Negative and unfair and mean spirited comments like Tyrone have an off day are used. Yet when one of the GAA media darlings plays well.against top team and loses sometimes heavily against top teams (eg by 9 points in a provicial final) they are praised as future All Ireland champions in waiting. Meath performances have ALWAYS being downplayed degraded and criticised. The same as it ever was. But I have facts above. If u dont like facts or something positive to say about Meath u wouldnt like reading the above. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 18/11/2018 17:47:15 2151502 Link 1 |
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Not sure what you want people to acknowledge here mate, Meath played 4 top eight teams in two years and lost two , drew one and won one. Ok well done Meath. Great achievement. P.S. The Donegal and Dublin draw wasn't in Croke Park. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/11/2018 18:22:58 2151512 Link 3 |
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I am going to leave it there. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 18/11/2018 18:49:04 2151516 Link 1 |
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Ha Ha Ha, good man Yew
Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 19/11/2018 14:05:12 2151635 Link 3 |
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It would be foolish of any Kildare person to say look at mayo game. Be equivalent to Meath saying look at Tyrone game. While forgetting about longford game. Same applies to Kildare and the Carlow game. The truth lays somewhere in between. Kildare didn't win a competitive game in almost a whole calendar year, in championship league and O'Byrne cup. Both Meath and Kildare need CONSISTENCY. Without it neither will do anything in division 2. So please don't say mayo game blah blah blah, as someone can always say Carlow. While you should take positives from it (same as we will from Tyrone) until both counties produce that level of performance match after match, NEITHER will be a stand out team. royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/11/2018 14:56:47 2151837 Link 0 |
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Mostly fair arguments, I see where you're coming from but as much as you're quoting the Tyrone game as a once off good performance for Meath and Mayo for Kildare, we came just as close against Tyrone as ye did in the league, as we did Donegal.. and Monaghan.. could've beat Galway and Kerry in the championship too and DID beat Mayo, so I'd argue, despite the results, our good performances were much more consistent than Meaths last year and I would expect us to stand out in division 2, but I concede that we have the potential to completely fall flat.
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 20/11/2018 16:22:56 2151859 Link 2 |
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I don't know the story about Cork but with Meath it's the Paddy Keenan curse put on them from the monks in Collon after the fiasco of the Leinster Final in 2010. If you don't believe me here is a few things that happened to Meath since 2010: OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 20/11/2018 18:04:12 2151874 Link 0 |
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Nah Ollie we are in the process of getting the curse lifted. We have it all organized apart from one detail, you see the plan is to have 12 virgins dance around the hill of Tara , everything is in place, ..... apart from we having awful difficulty getting the twelve virgins from Meath no point asking the dubs the lend us some as they completely out, Louth won't /can't do it. Anyone know if Kildare has any??
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/11/2018 19:59:03 2151891 Link 0 |
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Royaldunne if you are looking for 12 virgins I would suggest to go up to County Cavan and pick a virgin from one of the following places: Cavan Town, Virgina, Baileborough, Ballyjamesduff, Kingscourt, Ballyconnell, Belturbet, Cootehill, Shercock, Mullagh, Swanlinbar and Blacklion. That's your magic 12 plus I heard that they are tight in every way.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 20/11/2018 20:24:25 2151899 Link 2 |