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Whats gone wrong with these former giants? Seven All Ireland football titles between them over the past thirty one years. But both their county champions hammered this afternoon by their Dublin and Kerry counterparts. A combined total of 37 points the difference. Worrying times for the Royals and Rebels. Triple H (Meath) - Posts: 551 - 11/11/2018 16:21:51 2150590 Link 1 |
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Meath never made an impression in the Leinster Club. Only something like 4 titles ever. So today's loss means nothing. witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 11/11/2018 16:47:16 2150597 Link 0 |
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I don't know much about Cork football. Meath I do know and there are too many clubs in Meath and not enough good ones. Possibly having a lot of clubs was a good thing in the past and created a good club scene. The very strong large Dublin clubs are just operating a completely different level to any club in Meath. These clubs have such a pool of talent and there's some very strong underage games being played in Dublin. Meath underage structures are a problem for them. There's so many underage divisions good talent in smaller clubs don't get exposure to quality games. You see that in the fall of north Meath clubs. Dunboyne are going to be a force in Meath for a long time, they've had a long run of underage success but they are still competing in just a completely less demanding environment than the Dublin clubs. Nemo did win Munster last year in defense of Cork. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 11/11/2018 16:57:46 2150604 Link 3 |
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realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 11/11/2018 17:15:23 2150608 Link 4 |
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could have started this thread 7 years ago in fairness. waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 11/11/2018 17:50:07 2150616 Link 7 |
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There have been at least two attempts to streamline the Meath Senior Championship over the last few years but all have failed because of self interests and a lack of leadership from the top table to properly sell the required motions. Part of the problem was that the streamlining applied to all grades rather than one grade at a time. To put it simply changes at senior level fed through all grades without a proper analysis of the knock on effect to even the Junior B Championship so delegates did not "buy in". One reform that applies to the Junior Championship that was more or less forced through and was ruled out of order on appeal to the Leinster Council. It is depressing that the Leinster Council have ruled against our County Board because of the Bord's inability to properly run competitions over the last few years. MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1066 - 11/11/2018 17:58:27 2150618 Link 0 |
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Not sure about that, cork reached semi final in 2012 and Nemo made all ireland final last year PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 11/11/2018 17:58:31 2150619 Link 0 |
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I think cork are definitely in trouble with the football..always were a top 6 or 7 team,they are well down on that now and today saint finbars a team who once won the all Ireland were out of their depth...having said that cork did look in trouble with the hurling a few years ago but they have stabilised and looks like they will be a force again preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 740 - 11/11/2018 17:59:01 2150620 Link 0 |
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All very valid points, but it's not just in comparison to Dublin club football that Meath has fallen short over the last 15 years. Kildare, Westmeath, Laois and Offaly clubs have all performed much better in Leinster over this period.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2049 - 11/11/2018 18:03:55 2150626 Link 1 |
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Nemo beat Crokes well in the Munster Final last year to be fair. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 11/11/2018 18:58:50 2150637 Link 2 |
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Underage structures definitely were a problem but back to back 17's Leinsters show that at least at county level there is improvement. Overall schools and clubs strength I'll agree though. Pats Navan have gone miles back since the Hogan Cup final in 2013. Tough to gauge underage though. Meath have beat Dublin at 98, 00 twice and 01 age groups in championship since 2016 but who knows if that will translate
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1464 - 11/11/2018 19:07:01 2150641 Link 2 |
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Don't know a lot about Meath football but there are good clubs and good players in Cork. I'm not quite sure who is to blame with their county team but the team that played kerry this year were a shambles, well off in terms of fitness and generally way out of their depth against what transpired to be a fairly average Kerry side. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 11/11/2018 19:34:08 2150644 Link 3 |
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Everytime a Meath club is knocked out of the leinster club senior championship, its seen as a sign of trouble in Meath football. Everytime a journalist or pundit talks about problems in Meath football they bring up Meaths record at club level in leinster. I can give 30 reasons why Meath have declined and not one mention of Meaths record at leinster senior club level. In the future it would be a boost to see Meath team doing better at leinster club level , but the fact is Meath have always done poorly at club level in the provience. Some counties like Dublin kilkenny and kerry are strong at inter county and club , while Meath and say Tipperary hurlers are another county that struggles outside their county at club level. Anyway a few stats and facts tell the full story. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 12/11/2018 08:15:05 2150706 Link 2 |
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Jesus wept lads do we have to go down this road, it's not today nor yesterday that Meath and Cork fell away from the top table and now just because the Meath champions are beaten in Leinster, which they have been by and large for the history of that competition, we are heading down the post mortem route again, people are very selective at times with regard to what's happening overall in Meath football and I did one am certainly not pushing any panic buttons after yesterday. Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 12/11/2018 13:31:12 2150770 Link 3 |
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I think people are being a bit selective here. I would change the title to is Football in Trouble or is Meath Cork Down Derry Armagh Laois Offaly and a couple more strong counties in trouble. There is a massive group of very strong football counties who are going through collectively bad periods. 20 years ago these counties were producing their best teams and best players ever . For example in this decade 4 teams have won Sam In the 1990s 8 teams won Sam In the 1990s you had 1 The greatest Cork team ever ( Only Cork team to do the double) eg Tompkins Davis Barry 2 The greateat Derry team ever eg Tohill Downey eg 93 3 The greatest Down team of last 50 year eg Linden Blaney Mcarten eg 91 94 4 The greatest or second best Donegal team ever eg McHugh Bonner Boyle eg 92 5 The greatest Galway team of last 50 years and best team from Connacht in last 50 years eg Joyce Donnellan Fallon De Paor eg 98 6 Two great Meath teams eg early 90s - Greatest Meath team ever and in late 90s best young team of last 40 years , by winning Sam with 7 under 21s eg Fay Giles in 96 7 You also had in 90s A kerry team that would soon become one of the greatest kerry teams ever eg Fitzgerald Moyihan D O Se in 97 8 A brillant Dublin with players like Barr Heery Curran Stynes Farrell Sherlock Redmond Rock Duff McNally who would have won a couple All Irelands in any other era eg 95 9 And an Armagh team which would soon become the greatest Armagh team ever eg McGeeney McEntee McConville eg 99 10 And players who would soon become greatest Tyrone team ever eg Cavanan Dooher 95 96 Also in the proviences in 90s you had 1 The greatest leitrim team of last 80 years winning their only Connacht time in that period eg 1993 2 The best Clare team of last 70 years winning their only Munster title in that period eg 1992 3 The best Cavan team of last 50 years winning their only Ulster title of that period eg 1997 4 The greatest Kildare team of last 80 years winning two leinsters and reaching their first final since 20s eg 1998 5 The best Offaly team of last 35 years winning leinster and their only league div 1 title eg 97 98 5 And in early 00s you had best Westmeath team ever and best laois of last 60 years Now all these counties have had a poor era recently 1 Cork have always being in top 5 or 6 teams in country every year in last 50 years. Cork are currently outside the top ten teams. You have to go back to 1950s for Cork football to be so low. 2 Meath , this has been Meath worst decade since 1920s..This is the first decade since 1920s that Meath have never reached senior final or won league 1 final or played in div 1 final or played consistent div 1 football since 1920s. Meath loss to Dublin in 2014 is Meath worst defeat along 1955 to Dublin since 1920s eg first time Meath v Dublin game was over by half time since 20s. Meath have spent every year of this decade in div 2 ( exception 2013 in div 3. 3 Down have not won an Ulster title in 24 years and are currently in div 3. You could say that this is Down worst period since 1950s 4 Derry are in div 4. Derry won Ulster titles and had in Ulster in 70 80s 90s and 00s. This is the first decade since 60s Derry havent won Ulster title. 5 Armagh have spent 3 of the last 4 years in div 3. Armagh won Ulster titles in 70s 80s 90s 00s. This is Armaghs first decade they havent won Ulster title since 1960s. Armagh havent won a senior championship match in Ulster in 4 years. 6 Offaly reached leinster finals in 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s ( winning titles in 60s 70s 80s and 90s). Offaly have spent most of this decade in div 3 or 4. It will Offalys first decade to not win leinster final.since 1950s. Offaly went 4 or 5 years without winning a championship match in leinster recently 7 Laois were in div 4 last year. Laois defeated Heffernans Dublin in leinster in 80s and won national league div 1 title. In 90s they were always difficult to beat also. They won leinster and reached div 1 final in 00s. The last time laois were in div 4 was 1970s. 8 Galway have shown real progress last year and are team with potential. But if Galway dont reach All Ireland final next year it will be first time since 1900s Galway havent reached All Ireland final . Galway reached finals in 20s 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. This at the moment is Galways worst decade since 1920s. 9 kildare have shown potential and won a brillant under 20 title last year. But this decade along with 80s is kildares worst in 100 years. kildare have reached 1 leinster final in this decade ( they reached 4 in 70s and 3 in 90s). They have a good record in back door but currently are fourth or fifth most sucessful county in leinster championship in this decade behind Dublin Meath and Westmeath respectively. They havent won in Croker since 2013 and have lost 7 times in row in Croker in 3 years. Kildare have potential but this still has been a very poor era for kildare. So if all these strong great football counties had great teams and players 20 years ago and now r all collectively bottoming out together , is the question not Is Football in Trouble?.Any why have all these counties struggled together since 2010. Thats a very difficult question to answer. And many many many complicated and multi faceted reasons why. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 12/11/2018 15:00:11 2150789 Link 1 |
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Ahh will you go away out of that. Meath clubs have a horrendous record over the years. And yet could string together plenty of all ire senior minor titles as well. Nonsense to equate the two.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/11/2018 15:18:06 2150793 Link 1 |
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So as furlong put it, it's always been like this. The only gauge I will use is when and if both counties meet this year. That is all that matters. And should that come to pass, I doubt the gap will be as wide as it is in club. Also let's not forget Meath have won back to back Leinster minor titles at the new grade. royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/11/2018 15:24:41 2150796 Link 1 |
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How many full time club coaches in Meath? valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 12/11/2018 16:39:07 2150816 Link 0 |
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Up to recently there was 3 full time coachs in Meath and 4 full time coachs in kildare. Dublin have 60 plus full time coachs. I can give 30 reasons why Meath declined and no mention of Dublin. But you asked how many full time coachs Meath had and thats the fact. Meath could become the new Cavan..Take the road Cavan did after 1950s. We might not eitheir. We dont know. What I will say Meath have a long tradition of upping their game when Dublin go up level. The Meath v Dublin rivalry in the past has driven Meath teams sucess. But that rivalry is dead now. And if Meath are to be sucessful they need to have a strong rivalry with Dublin. In many ways Meath have overachieved in last 80 years. When you look at the counties it is surrounded by and the area of Ireland it is situated and stature in Irish society. Cork Dublin and Galway should be in top 5 football counties , most sucessful counties . They are our 3 most famous counties and political socially culturally economically centre in each region in Ireland. Meath is somwhere from 15th to 20th in Irish society. But in football terms Meath are jiont 4th. Meath has overachieved in football terms. So like Cavan that could be it. Meath cud be in permanent decline. But there is a chance Meath might not eitheir go in permanent decline. Dublin going up a level has meant Meath and kildare have had get their act together at underage. Kildare have won 3 of the last 6 or 7 minor and are current leinster and All Ireland under 20 champions. Meath need to improve at under 20 ( We were the only team to beat All Ireland u20 champions last year). But overall at underage Meath have definately improved. Meath have put two leinster minor titles back to back at minor age 2017, 2018 ( Under 17) And at minor Meath have beaten Dublin 4 times in last 4 years in the minor leinster championship. Its a long time at any grade that any county has beaten Dublin 4 times in 4 years in intercounty All Ireland championship . I would put that down to work done at ground level , better coaching, better players, but also Meath v Dublin rivalry. Its dead at senior but not minor. And with Meath minors winning Gerry Reilly cup this year ( last time we won Gerry Reilly cup ( a competition for counties in north leinster and mid Ulster. )We won the following leinster minor title with that team. Monaghan won Gerry Reilly cup last year and that team followed it up with an winning the Ulster minor title this year. I know this can be wrong. So many counties have labelled an underage team as a strong team. And that team fails. But this years minor Meath team could be stronger then last years and what I have been told 2020 minor team is the best minor Meath team of the last few years. You never know with young lads. Many a highly fancied underage never suceeded in every county. But Dublin next year minors went down to kerry for challenge game recently and kerry beat them by a cricket score. And in kerry they were shocked in the gap in both teams. I have a feeling Dublin wouldnt be strong at minor next year again. And Meath and kildare will be main contenders. Time will tell. What we can see at minor was Dublin were dominate force at minor level in leinster in early part of this decade, kildare were the dominant force in the mid part of this decade. And Meath have been recently the most sucessful at minor. There cud be 2 more strong minor Meath teams..Most counties in recent times have 4 to 5 year sucess period and then decline. So if Meath were to decline in 2 years time at minor , which is the usual outcome. It will be interesting to see who takes over at minor. Dublin or kildare or Offaly or louth or loais or Westmeath. Dublin should. But minor championship has been more competitive then senior leinster. Meath definitely need to improve at under20. If Meath can start winning leinster under 20 titles that could be the game changer. Meath havent won leinster under 21 title since 2001 , the last time Meath reached All Ireland senior final its linked. So Meath are working hard at the ground. But its a long way back. And there are no guarantees. It's hard to say. But work is been done and sucess at underage is occurring. But nothing is guaranteed. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 12/11/2018 17:14:26 2150827 Link 1 |
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A few years ago it was Meath and Galway football in trouble. Now its Meath and Cork. In a few years Meath and (insert football power in decline) in trouble. RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 13/11/2018 15:27:59 2150969 Link 2 |