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Reginonal Teams In All Ireland Hurling Series

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "Your previous post you didn't seem to understand how a player could play for both his club team and an amalgamated regional team in the Kerry club championships. I was explaining that this is possible as the amalgamated regional team does not compete in the junior/ intermediate ranks where they draw the players from. Actually read my previous post again, I then said if something similar was set up for intercounty competition the practicalities of training for their counties/ amalgamated teams simultaneously would be where the issue would be."
To be fair, you also said 'in theory it sounds like a great model for the inter county championship.', which I was trying to address in my response, but fair enough, you did address the training issue as well, I didn't mean to ignore that. But its a pretty fundamental issue.

And full confession, I've been on your side of the fence on this one previously. On this very forum, probably going back years, I've mooted an all Ulster team competing in the Liam McCarthy, as many other have. I thought it seemed like a good idea at the time, but the more I've thought about it, the less of a good idea it seems. For one, any time a thread was started on the subject, most of the posters from actual Ulster counties thought it was a bad idea, which says a lot. Many reasons were given, including that its more of a sticking plaster that avoids addressing the real issues faced by Ulster counties.

And what was also said on those threads, if memory serves, is that people have an affinity for their own counties, that they wouldn't have for an amalgamated team. The more I thought about it, the more I agreed. Would I identify as much with an amalgamated Tipp/Waterford/Clare team, as I do with Tipp as is? Not really. I know thats not whats mooted here, but its best to try and imagine it as being applied to your own county, even if your county is a 1A team, before its hoisted on counties like Down, Derry, Armagh etc.
All that is apart from how such a team would even co-exist with its constituent county teams, and how it could ever get to a stage of cohesiveness to compete with the Kilkenny, Galway, Limerick etc

As for buy in, look at Meath. If the goal is to play at Liam McCarthy level, they don't need to be part of an amalgamated team. They need to win the Christy Ring next year, and then do well in the McDonagh cup the following year, which is very possible. Wouldn't Meath hurling supported prefer that? I know I would. And if I was a Meath hurling fan, I'd want all our best players committed to the Meath team to make that a reality.

But all that said, I do actually get why people support the amalgamated team idea, and agree with the sentiment expressed by liam500 above, re players in most counties never having the chance to play at the top level, due to not being from the right county, no matter how good they are. I think this can be better addressed through reform of the tiered system, rather than amalgamated teams. Amalgamated teams are a good idea in theory, but in practice

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1690 - 21/10/2018 22:03:12    2147555

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Ye do realize these are amateur players and now your asking them to play for another team,thats there club which could be both codes,there county and now some mixed team,it could never work.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 328 - 24/10/2018 19:27:47    2148190

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MayCommonTrimGo

Sounds like a Brexit strategy!

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3687 - 24/10/2018 22:22:41    2148203

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Replying To cityman73:  "Ye do realize these are amateur players and now your asking them to play for another team,thats there club which could be both codes,there county and now some mixed team,it could never work."
Yeah, I didn't even think about players playing dual codes at club level. It'd place crazy requirements on the players involved. They'd have to be training with 2 inter-county squads from January, presumable playing league and championship with both squads, and training with the amalgamated squad to the level to compete with the Galways and Kilkennys of the world. Thats on top of playing club, possibly in both codes.

We have the secondary competitions in hurling already, they just need to get some attention, and be reformed so its maybe not so striated, and teams have a clearer route to the top tier as they improve. 5 tiers is too many. i.e.
- Absorb Meaghar competition (it just consists of 4 teams now) into Nicky Rackard
- move top 2 Rackard teams into Ring, so both comps have 10 teams (so 2 groups of 5, instead of the 2 groups of 4 they had this year)
- have proper promotion/relegation, obviously, all the way to the top (and yes, incl. Munster)
- maybe play Ring/Rackard finals as double headers with provincial finals? Better than playing in an almost empty Croke Park.

I dunno, but there's alot that could be done with those competitions to improve things

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1690 - 25/10/2018 20:43:52    2148327

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "Yeah, I didn't even think about players playing dual codes at club level. It'd place crazy requirements on the players involved. They'd have to be training with 2 inter-county squads from January, presumable playing league and championship with both squads, and training with the amalgamated squad to the level to compete with the Galways and Kilkennys of the world. Thats on top of playing club, possibly in both codes.

We have the secondary competitions in hurling already, they just need to get some attention, and be reformed so its maybe not so striated, and teams have a clearer route to the top tier as they improve. 5 tiers is too many. i.e.
- Absorb Meaghar competition (it just consists of 4 teams now) into Nicky Rackard
- move top 2 Rackard teams into Ring, so both comps have 10 teams (so 2 groups of 5, instead of the 2 groups of 4 they had this year)
- have proper promotion/relegation, obviously, all the way to the top (and yes, incl. Munster)
- maybe play Ring/Rackard finals as double headers with provincial finals? Better than playing in an almost empty Croke Park.

I dunno, but there's alot that could be done with those competitions to improve things"
You are 100% spot on with this post.

3 tiers is enough.

12, 12 and the remaining 11 or so teams.

Put it in place and don't touch it after.

The Provincial championships can be played alongside the group stage competition. The group stage should be national so that you wouldn't have the stupid relegation and promotion problems.

Top 2 from each group into playoffs. Provincial champions not in the top 2 play a preliminary semifinal against a 2nd placed team.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2147 - 25/10/2018 21:32:06    2148332

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Replying To Pinhead:  "Realistically there are only 5/6 teams that will realistically compete for the Liam McCarthy in the next few years. I don't understand why some counties don't come together to be competitive. All counties have some great individual hurlers that deserve to play at the highest level. The idea is similiar to what happens in Senior hurling in Cork and Senior Football in Kerry. Why not see what a combined Offaly/Meath/Westmeath team would do or a Carlow/Kildare/Wicklow team. It would definitely create the interest in those counties and help improve the standard and the Leinster championship."
"only 5/6 teams" that can win the all Ireland in hurling, that's pretty good. There's only one county can win the football, how's about amalgamating some teams in that?!

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 735 - 26/10/2018 05:04:03    2148344

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Replying To ballydalane:  ""only 5/6 teams" that can win the all Ireland in hurling, that's pretty good. There's only one county can win the football, how's about amalgamating some teams in that?!"
Very well said

PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 234 - 26/10/2018 21:10:44    2148400

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Replying To Pinhead:  "Realistically there are only 5/6 teams that will realistically compete for the Liam McCarthy in the next few years. I don't understand why some counties don't come together to be competitive. All counties have some great individual hurlers that deserve to play at the highest level. The idea is similiar to what happens in Senior hurling in Cork and Senior Football in Kerry. Why not see what a combined Offaly/Meath/Westmeath team would do or a Carlow/Kildare/Wicklow team. It would definitely create the interest in those counties and help improve the standard and the Leinster championship."
Divisional sides are in Cork Football championship as well, Duhallow a divisional team are the County final this Sunday, as for going back to the topic i think combining counties sounds good but i dont think it will create buzz around in the counties thst it would happen, they might not see the same pride as they would supporting there own county, football should consider this route as well but cant see it happening

PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 234 - 26/10/2018 21:16:51    2148401

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Replying To ballydalane:  ""only 5/6 teams" that can win the all Ireland in hurling, that's pretty good. There's only one county can win the football, how's about amalgamating some teams in that?!"
And there's actually 8 or 9.....5 in Munster plus KK , Wex, Galway ....and probably in the near future, Dublin.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1101 - 27/10/2018 00:36:12    2148409

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Could even expand further amalgamating a couple of so called stronger teams and maybe moving forward give it a new name something like maybe railway cup. Should create great interest with massive numbers turning up

madbull (Westmeath) - Posts: 191 - 29/10/2018 11:54:34    2148576

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Replying To madbull:  "Could even expand further amalgamating a couple of so called stronger teams and maybe moving forward give it a new name something like maybe railway cup. Should create great interest with massive numbers turning up"
Ha, well yes, fair point. While not exactly and apples to apples comparison (the status of the competition is also a factor), it does give an indication of what buy in for a 'supra-county' inter-county side may be. If people can't get behind a province, which is an actual geographical and historical unit, I'm not sure how they'd identify with a more random amalgam of counties.

I always thought the Railway cup, or some inter-provincial competition may still have had legs, if it was mandated that squads must include a player from each county in the province (although I'm not sure if that would just some provinces at an advantage or disadvantage). The Fenway classic might have been a good format/platform for such an inter-pro competition for hurling, as people are going for the spectacle anyway, rather than the particular counties involved (in my experience anyway). But maybe that could take the bite out of that competition, it does seem to be working well as it is.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1690 - 29/10/2018 21:16:19    2148648

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Amalgamated teams would work and could be done geographically in every province but Munster (hurling). Kerry been isolated. The answer to that with Cork being such large county once they name a panel of 35 Kerry be allowed to pick 7 or 8 players from there who are interested in playing inter county and against their own county. These players could return to Cork after three years if requested or desired to.
If and when these amalgamated became competitive the interest would be there to support them.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 361 - 02/11/2018 21:32:00    2149328

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Offaly won an AI 20 years ago so Im sure they wont be looking for a partner to win their next one. The other teams you mention are progressive hurling counties so I would be inclined to leave them alone. Whats important is that the progress continues and in time one of these will join the top group.
I think a rest of connacht team and maybe 1 or 2 regional teams in Ulster would be a better place to start, but if it fails it will probably fail badly due to lack of interest in these counties."
Offaly won an AI 20 years ago... :D Look at the state Offaly hurling is in now though.
It should be a reason to merge with other counties not a reason to dust off the reeling in years highlights.
Trading on past glories is no good, swallowing a bit of pride and merging with other counties would make sense.

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 941 - 04/11/2018 20:54:35    2149547

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Replying To Canuck:  "Amalgamated teams would work and could be done geographically in every province but Munster (hurling). Kerry been isolated. The answer to that with Cork being such large county once they name a panel of 35 Kerry be allowed to pick 7 or 8 players from there who are interested in playing inter county and against their own county. These players could return to Cork after three years if requested or desired to.
If and when these amalgamated became competitive the interest would be there to support them."
Just now have Cork all these very good players to effectively discard. This year they had to bring back on Seamus Harnedy against Limerick, when it was blatantly obvious he was injured and the other subs were hardly impressive.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 1694 - 04/11/2018 23:21:33    2149572

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