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Experimental Rule Changes Proposed For Gaelic Football

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Replying To neverright:  "Ah! guesswork, the perfect answer to all problems."
That's the way the world works - refs call freed for infringements judged - others don't see it - everything can't depend on computer programmes.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1615 - 12/10/2018 19:14:18    2146284

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Ah you see, I think going my way you will get to see some teams playing long.

If a team is being pressed in a 4,3,2,3,2 by their opposition, they will want to try to get men forward to beat the press by using a long ball.

Transitions will continue to be important but it will be the transition from defense to attack which will be interesting."
It might make sense for teams to go long but mainly to a big man who can field the ball (if the mark is brought in) but how often would there be enough space for a ball being kicked long for a teammate to run into space to collect, as the opposition still probably have too many players blocking space. Watching a forward run out in front of the defender into space to collect a ball which has been kicked long is great to watch in Gaelic football. Encouraging kicking in football is not only about getting more high fielding back to the game but this as well (Funny enough extending the mark is a rule that I would not like to see coming in as I think that change the game into to a much more start-stop game)

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 616 - 13/10/2018 13:06:55    2146336

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "It might make sense for teams to go long but mainly to a big man who can field the ball (if the mark is brought in) but how often would there be enough space for a ball being kicked long for a teammate to run into space to collect, as the opposition still probably have too many players blocking space. Watching a forward run out in front of the defender into space to collect a ball which has been kicked long is great to watch in Gaelic football. Encouraging kicking in football is not only about getting more high fielding back to the game but this as well (Funny enough extending the mark is a rule that I would not like to see coming in as I think that change the game into to a much more start-stop game)"
You know I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I like all those things that you state also. Forwards coming out to collect the ball, maybe have a little jink then take his man on.

I think that will also happen too.

Good attacks have depth and width . Variety. Different options, to be flexible to be able to play against different styles. To be able to find solutions to win.

You need to have a long option and it's good to have an option moving towards the ball.

You need to have forward options. At the minute the top teams are still working through how to transition from everyone behind the ball to having a functioning attack. Teams are way better now at not being counter attacked, so you're going to send much more of teams getting stable possession and getting themselves into attacking shape as Dublin do.

The extreme blanket is very different to the Armagh/Tyrone style sweeper system.

It is pretty much the recognition that managers can't waste their players not contributing in as much of the game as possible.

The focus has definitely been on defense but managers also shouldn't be wasting their defenders not attacking.

The game is certainly out of balance at present but I really feel we are close to having an incredible game.

Players are critical of the new rules and I think that speaks volumes.

Spectators probably don't like what they see at the minute but the most important stakeholders should be the players. Gaelic football is for me more rewarding than it used to be to play because you're more involved in the game at all times.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2645 - 13/10/2018 14:20:35    2146349

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "It might make sense for teams to go long but mainly to a big man who can field the ball (if the mark is brought in) but how often would there be enough space for a ball being kicked long for a teammate to run into space to collect, as the opposition still probably have too many players blocking space. Watching a forward run out in front of the defender into space to collect a ball which has been kicked long is great to watch in Gaelic football. Encouraging kicking in football is not only about getting more high fielding back to the game but this as well (Funny enough extending the mark is a rule that I would not like to see coming in as I think that change the game into to a much more start-stop game)"
A defensive team can't have everyone back if the 'no backwards pass inside your own half' rule was introduced as they have nowhere to play the ball if they win it back. That one simple rule forces teams to keep a few players forward without losing any of the flow of the game but it's not part of the changes at all for some reason.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2283 - 13/10/2018 14:30:28    2146350

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Replying To Soma:  "A defensive team can't have everyone back if the 'no backwards pass inside your own half' rule was introduced as they have nowhere to play the ball if they win it back. That one simple rule forces teams to keep a few players forward without losing any of the flow of the game but it's not part of the changes at all for some reason."
That's actually a really great rule change.

It also makes encourages teams to press higher as they'd have more chance of bottling a player up and turning over possession.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2645 - 13/10/2018 16:05:41    2146358

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When this process is over you will end up with Rugby or something close, why do we need to change any rules at the moment? Players and managers can manipulate new rules anyway.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 956 - 13/10/2018 16:29:40    2146363

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Replying To Soma:  "The Kilmacud 7s have a rule that you can't pass the ball backwards in your own half. It's simple to understand and officiate and it overcomes most of the ills of the modern game. It would be surely worth trying more than a whole host of complicated changes."
I would suggest a maximum of 3 Hand passes per possession unless the receiver is inside the opposition 45. This would be similar to the Kilmacud sevens rule (of no passing backwards) but not be quite as restrictive.

It basically means that if you want to play keep ball you can only kick pass it making it easier to dispossess the keep ballers.

Allowing unlimited handpassing inside the 45 allows attacking play to develop

This would have a similar effect to shot clock with no need for a timekeeper.

shaneShankill (Dublin) - Posts: 26 - 13/10/2018 23:07:51    2146405

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's actually a really great rule change.

It also makes encourages teams to press higher as they'd have more chance of bottling a player up and turning over possession."
The truth is I have a feeling that not all the proposed rule changes will actually be trialled. I think what would have greatest positive impact of the ones suggested would be making players line up in their 'areas' for the kickouts and the kickouts having to be kicked as far as the midfield 'area'.
There is nothing wrong with your suggestion regarding handpasses rule not being allowed to go backwards in your own half. From what I read on players/managers reactions to the proposals on the rte website they were mixed, some positive, some negative with most liking some of them and disliking others.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 616 - 14/10/2018 08:32:56    2146420

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Re:
Spectators probably don't like what they see at the minute but the most important stakeholders should be the players. Gaelic football is for me more rewarding than it used to be to play because you're more involved in the game at all times.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2129 - 13/10/2018 14:20:35 2146349

I think the game should be fot all stakeholders - players, coaches,fans and media. I think the Aussie AFL has it right - they have 9 rule changes for 2019 after consultation with all parties. When does the GAA listen to fan input - try sending them the best of our ideas here.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1615 - 14/10/2018 16:27:17    2146454

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "When this process is over you will end up with Rugby or something close, why do we need to change any rules at the moment? Players and managers can manipulate new rules anyway."
This sounds like we should not encrypt code because the hackers will break in anyway - or do you prefer, lax rules to let the inmates take over the asylum. Tweaks for improvement should trump heads in the sand - people disagreeing is healthy.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1615 - 14/10/2018 16:36:06    2146456

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Replying To omahant:  "This sounds like we should not encrypt code because the hackers will break in anyway - or do you prefer, lax rules to let the inmates take over the asylum. Tweaks for improvement should trump heads in the sand - people disagreeing is healthy."
my concern is that the cure is worse than the disease. The Americanization of the game would be a disaster, a stop start grid mess like yankie football or something. Maybe we should keep 4 players in opponent half at all times with a penalty kick as a punishment for a breach. Lets see what the powers in charge come up with.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 956 - 15/10/2018 21:44:36    2146703

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I thought this made some very good arguments against these new rules link

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2389 - 21/10/2018 17:46:39    2147489

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Just ban boots as bed room slippers would do anyway for the amount of kicking that is done.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 623 - 22/10/2018 11:10:20    2147627

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It's seems now they are going to change the proposed kickout changes again after trialling in some college's games did not work. Now there is no limit on how many can be between both lines but the kick still has to reach the 45m line kicked from the 20m, which means the minimum kick is 25m which is not much different to now.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1243 - 07/11/2018 11:19:23    2150030

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "It's seems now they are going to change the proposed kickout changes again after trialling in some college's games did not work. Now there is no limit on how many can be between both lines but the kick still has to reach the 45m line kicked from the 20m, which means the minimum kick is 25m which is not much different to now."
What a non-surprise. It was a really dumb idea for a rule.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 316 - 07/11/2018 11:51:36    2150036

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Replying To omahant:  "This sounds like we should not encrypt code because the hackers will break in anyway - or do you prefer, lax rules to let the inmates take over the asylum. Tweaks for improvement should trump heads in the sand - people disagreeing is healthy."
Keep Trump out of it. We have enough trouble.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1585 - 07/11/2018 15:23:10    2150068

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So now all the opposition has to do is withdraw all 15 players back over the 45..if a goalkeeper can only kick 40-50 yards imagine the congestion in that 20 yard band between midfield and the 45...rewarding high fielding?...what a joke...do the people who came up with these rules have any idea at all about Gaelic football?

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1715 - 07/11/2018 21:39:52    2150129

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Side lines: good change.
Hand pass : Who is going to count and how often will this be got wrong? First a striking action demonstrated by the elbow moving back creating a gap between the ball and the hand. Probably all ready there but not enforced. Number of hand passes restricted by a simple rule if you receive one you can not give one.
Sin Bin: All infractions other than red cards punished by three minutes in the box (bin). The team plays short until the penalty is over. If the same player continues to foul (may be third trip to the box) red card and no substitution. Get rid of black cards.
Kick outs: Not bad except as said cluttering of the space where the ball will land. May be could be controlled by the six backs and six forwards required inside the two 45 meter line until the ball goes beyond that line on the kick out side. Would certainly make mid fielders an important position with good fielding skills. Forget about the stupid mark stopping and slowing down the game. Belongs to another sport anyway.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 623 - 13/11/2018 22:32:26    2151038

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All stupid rules bar the sin bin. Will just lead to more congestion around the goals.
From the kick out every player will filter back to clog the space to make a clean catch impossible.

From the sideline ball everyone will filter back and clog the space, as the ball can only go forward.

Three hands passes is simply stupid and result in more bodies behind the ball, as teams cant hand pass the ball up the field.

The forward mark will lead to players clog the space in front of the 20 metre line, so no marks will he even harder to get.

The suits want to destroy the game altogether.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1823 - 13/11/2018 23:57:57    2151051

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Replying To Canuck:  "Side lines: good change.
Hand pass : Who is going to count and how often will this be got wrong? First a striking action demonstrated by the elbow moving back creating a gap between the ball and the hand. Probably all ready there but not enforced. Number of hand passes restricted by a simple rule if you receive one you can not give one.
Sin Bin: All infractions other than red cards punished by three minutes in the box (bin). The team plays short until the penalty is over. If the same player continues to foul (may be third trip to the box) red card and no substitution. Get rid of black cards.
Kick outs: Not bad except as said cluttering of the space where the ball will land. May be could be controlled by the six backs and six forwards required inside the two 45 meter line until the ball goes beyond that line on the kick out side. Would certainly make mid fielders an important position with good fielding skills. Forget about the stupid mark stopping and slowing down the game. Belongs to another sport anyway."
Can you expand on how the new sideline rule is a good change? It will encourage teams to get players behind the ball when defending a side line kick because the ball has to be kicked forward for some reason. Imagine you get a sideline ball just inside the oppositions 45, you aren't able to take it quickly because a player from their team decides to stand in front of you until the ref tells him to retreat by which time they will have everyone back and you can't get it to teammates free standing around the 45m line as the ball has to go forward.....insane rule change and can't see it staying after being trialed.

Like you, I'm not a fan of the restriction on the hand pass rule as like the sideline ball rule it favours the defending team rather than the team in possession. I understand why they've introduced it as they are trying to get rid of the slow possession play out around the middle of the pitch but I'm not sure this will happen as it's easy for players in possession to keep count of hand passes when the play is slow and labored but it will impact teams that run the ball at speed to create openings for scores. I'm thinking of goals scored by my own county over the years where you end up with someone like Ryan McHugh palming the ball to an empty net after a great hand pass move. Do they want to lose this part of our game?

I see no harm in trailing the sin bin rule just to see how it pans out. It might work out better than the existing black card if implemented well.

I just don't understand why they've tampered with the kickout. At least they decided to get rid of the crazy idea of having just 2 from each team inside the two 45's. With the recent changes to the kickout made in the last 2 years I think the current kickout set up is one of the most interesting things to watch in modern day football. Teams are finally brave enough to close down the oppositions kickouts and there is severe pressure on keepers to find their targets and we've also had a lot of kickouts going long than previous years. I'm just concerned that moving the kickout now from the 13 to the 21 may force teams to reconsider pushing up on kicks because if the keeper goes long they could be left exposed badly at the back because the ball will be landing closer to their own 45. It could work though and we'll just have to see how it goes but I don't really see the point in the change.

The change I'm looking forward to seeing most is the new mark. This will definitely encourage teams to work on game plans to getting players in attacking zones to kick passes into them. As a Donegal supporter I'm excited of the thought of Michael Murphy, Patrick McBrearty and maybe Odhran MacNillias as a three man full forward line at times in a match....hard not to see a few marks each there.

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 431 - 14/11/2018 09:35:48    2151086

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