National Forum

Brolly's Exclusion Zone

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https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/exclusion-zone-can-destroy-blanket-joe-brolly-outlines-his-plan-to-make-football-a-skillbased-spectacle-once-again-37368216.html

I like Brolly's idea - would it not improve the football spectacle enormously ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1356 - 01/10/2018 12:03:02    2144557

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Something has to be done , game not worth watching at present. Attendance and TV viewers way down

culmore (None) - Posts: 1295 - 01/10/2018 12:26:13    2144563

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So how does this get implemented at club games? Can't see it working if im honest and don't see the point for it. I noticed that Donegal club football was throwing up drab games at the weekend....

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/scoreline-donegal-sfc-179421

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4862 - 01/10/2018 13:09:17    2144567

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There should be an Exclusion Zone between Brolly and any type of media!

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1369 - 01/10/2018 13:13:57    2144568

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I think its quite innovative. Whats the harm in trying it?
More one on ones, more scores, less chance of swarm defences and drab games we're getting these days

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 811 - 01/10/2018 13:19:53    2144570

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Another suggestion without thinking it through. Makes as much practical sense as all kick outs beyond the 45
1/ if forwards withdraw outside exclusion zone no short kick outs are possible and the middle area is over crowded
2/ it would result it a series of sprints from the edge of the zone, hardly appealing.

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 386 - 01/10/2018 13:48:54    2144576

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interesting in theory, in practice this would be impossible to police. I mean how do you define how close a marker is standing next to a forward for him to be a man-marker.
What happens when attacking players are constantly sprinting in and out of this exclusion zone in a matter of seconds, who is going to be able to keep track of how many defenders are allowed in and out as the situation changes in a micro-second.
It just seems like it would become impossible to police very quickly.
I'm all for change that brings back core skills like kick passing and rewards attacking talent (these are things that would certainly benefit Kerry's style of football) but I just don't think this idea is a practical runner.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 3995 - 01/10/2018 13:55:43    2144577

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Replying To TheHermit:  "interesting in theory, in practice this would be impossible to police. I mean how do you define how close a marker is standing next to a forward for him to be a man-marker.
What happens when attacking players are constantly sprinting in and out of this exclusion zone in a matter of seconds, who is going to be able to keep track of how many defenders are allowed in and out as the situation changes in a micro-second.
It just seems like it would become impossible to police very quickly.
I'm all for change that brings back core skills like kick passing and rewards attacking talent (these are things that would certainly benefit Kerry's style of football) but I just don't think this idea is a practical runner."
I think it is an excellent idea.

It doesn't matter how far you are away from your marker. Two attackers means two defenders. A third attacker goes in & a third defender can join him.

The attacking side is dictating how many players go in there.

It would also mean less short kick outs, not a bad thing in Gaelic Football.

The only downside is that with their players, Dublin would probably still win things as the game would suit their fast free flowing style. Nothing against the Dubs, just the same team dominating is not healthy. But at least we would have a spectacle.

Good stuff Brolly. Thumbs up!

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6063 - 01/10/2018 14:22:17    2144588

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It would be a novelty idea to use in a local tournament for a bit of fun.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1362 - 01/10/2018 15:06:51    2144599

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Replying To slayer:  "I think it is an excellent idea.

It doesn't matter how far you are away from your marker. Two attackers means two defenders. A third attacker goes in & a third defender can join him.

The attacking side is dictating how many players go in there.

It would also mean less short kick outs, not a bad thing in Gaelic Football.

The only downside is that with their players, Dublin would probably still win things as the game would suit their fast free flowing style. Nothing against the Dubs, just the same team dominating is not healthy. But at least we would have a spectacle.

Good stuff Brolly. Thumbs up!"
Would you not end up with hordes of players hovering just outside this exclusion zone though? Would it not create a situation where the middle of the pitch becomes a massive scrimmage with 11 or 12 players each side basically converging on the ball?

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 3995 - 01/10/2018 16:02:22    2144615

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No harm throwing new ideas out there to see how the sound but I just don't see how Joe's idea works at club level and i'm not sure it would be great at inter county level either. Just sounds a bit complicated to employ.

Two rule changes that I would like to see given a go would be the introduction of a 2 point scoring zone from say 35 meters plus out . With this I'd also introduce an attacking mark where any long ball kicked in from outside the 45 is cleanly caught inside an attacking mark zone (maybe a 20 meter zone). These two changes would give attacking teams extra options and force defending teams to close down long range efforts and as a result leave more space in their full back line for the attacking teams to kick into.

Both the rule changes would be very easily implement and would encourage long range shooting and kick passing.

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 345 - 01/10/2018 17:31:50    2144635

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The rules need to be simplified and made enforceable, not more complicated. But changes are needed.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3842 - 01/10/2018 17:54:57    2144641

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Would you not end up with hordes of players hovering just outside this exclusion zone though? Would it not create a situation where the middle of the pitch becomes a massive scrimmage with 11 or 12 players each side basically converging on the ball?"
I'm not sure it would. There would be pressure to take responsibility of your marker in case he makes a quick break for the exclusion zone. Also if possession is turned over it would mean following one man each in case they make that run for the zone at the opposite end. Blanket defending would be a bit reckless under this format. I think it has merit but I'd like to see it in action over a sustained period before giving my verdict.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1662 - 01/10/2018 18:16:23    2144643

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To address some of the points made -

Short Kick Out - Point was made that if Forwards stay outside zone, it would lead to midfield crowding. Solution - exclusion applies only AFTER the ball leaves the defensive zone, that is, allow one or two short passes before the ball must leave and exclusion applies.

Long Range 2 Pts Score - I feel this value is outsized relative to the 1 and 3 point scores. For me, 1.5 is about right (same as basketball ratio). The scale could be adjusted to get rid of the fractions - or just give 3 points for a pair of long range scores.

Club Implementation - Would a straight line in lieu of the arc be easier to police ? I'd go with the line (yes, bright yellow) for all grades.

Dubs Domination - This would increase but is a different problem seeking a solution, Add more teams Dubs B, Dun Laighaire etc.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1356 - 01/10/2018 19:14:34    2144655

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Replying To arock:  "The rules need to be simplified and made enforceable, not more complicated. But changes are needed."
Not just enforceable but enforced with consistency.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1362 - 01/10/2018 19:26:38    2144657

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Current club player here.
I genuinely am excited about the idea of this. It is a change that indirectly means the only way you can defend is to go man to man.
The main issue people seem to have is how can it be reffed at club level? Well I think you underestimate how easy it would be to spot an extra man in the zone. If the extra man is an attacker play on. If the extra man is a defender who has drifted in without his forward because he was ball watching and not man marking then it is a free in.
Few other things to note.
Forwards now gain an advantage by not going into the zone. If they hold their position outside of the zone it means their defender can't go in and help the defence. Holding your position wide actually makes space inside.
Imagine how successful a tactic it would be for a full forward line to start in front of the goals and sprint out side of the zone. The full backs have to get out with them. Suddenly half forwards have the entire zone to run into with a clear run at goal.

If a back turns over a ball in the zone. They have to carry it out themselves as an extra defender can't drop back into the zone to collect an easy handpass off them to relieve them. The only option would be to run it out themselves. Kick it long out of defence to midfield. Or pass it to the goalkeeper who will then have to kick it to midfield as there won't be any extra player back for him to give a handy handpass to.

Short Kickouts are dead since the forwards can pull out of the zone and then a defender can't go in it to collect an easy ball. The ball has to travel outside the zone. In fairness I think most goalkeepers now train to be able to put a ball anywhere in their 45 so this shouldn't be an issue.

This rule puts a huge amount of power back into the forwards hands as they can drag defenders around the pitch.

If you are struggling to picture how it could work, that is probably because we all can't imagine football without sweepers anymore. We have been living with them for nearly 15 years.

How can a ref spot if a defender is in the zone when he shouldn't be?

Just look to see where his man is, just like we all used to do 10 years ago when we saw a defender standing not marking anyone.

Juniorbleague (Westmeath) - Posts: 12 - 01/10/2018 20:46:34    2144670

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To Juniorbleague -
Before Brolly's Idea, I was all for kick outs beyond the 45, as certain players would be in their defensive/attacking zone.
With Brolly's idea, I take the point made by a poster earlier that with nobody in the exclusion zone at kick outs, outside the zone/ midfield is crowded.
That's why I say - let the exclusion kick in ONLY AFTER the kick out team leaves the zone. Now, there's a bit of finesse - go long or short with the kick out. You could limit the in-zone plays at two before the ball needs to come out.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1356 - 01/10/2018 21:11:31    2144679

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oh sweet lord....the clowns have taken over the circus!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1599 - 01/10/2018 23:28:16    2144713

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I agree with witnof (Dublin)
There should be an Exclusion Zone between Brolly and any type of media!
Anyone that listens to him needs their head examined, this would be totally unenforceable by already overworked referees.

2leftfeet (None) - Posts: 129 - 02/10/2018 09:21:01    2144723

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Would an easier to police simpler rule not be that all teams must leave at least 3 or maybe even 4 forwards with 3 or 4 markers inside the 45 at all times?

Simply put a team cannot bring all 15 players behind the opposition 45 at all.

A Gaa pitch is still a big pitch so even if you have 10 men between their 45 and your goal there is still plenty of room for skilled and well drilled teams to work through for a score. Ball is turned over and its quick ball into the forwards, coming off the shoulder interplay at speed attacking.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 742 - 02/10/2018 10:31:06    2144733

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