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So it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 20/09/2018 17:30:32
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It's the right move. There's less of a need for a competitive league given the format of the championship.
It's a good move for the best of the rest. 2 tier 2 teams a season will get 5 division 1 league games.
Divisions 2 and 3 should follow suit and have equal standard groups.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 20/09/2018 19:29:26
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Replying To legendzxix: " linkSo it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well."
Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail.
It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 20/09/2018 19:41:04
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So it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5665 - 20/09/2018 17:30:32league's role shouldnt ever be to experiment and prepare for championship. the season does still need to change even with change of format of provincail championships
This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money.
Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail.
It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 332 - 20/09/2018 19:41:04 Getting rid of the league would be madness even with the format of the provincial championships. Counties can and should still be able to start championships in July(and earlier) regardless of when the counties are playing until. 4 months of a closed season is far too long. 1 third of a year as a closed season? Madness. Playing provincial club championships every second year would also be a major backwards step.
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 20/09/2018 20:30:49
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Replying To DonaldDuck: "link
So it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5665 - 20/09/2018 17:30:32league's role shouldnt ever be to experiment and prepare for championship. the season does still need to change even with change of format of provincail championships
This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money.
Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail.
It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 332 - 20/09/2018 19:41:04 Getting rid of the league would be madness even with the format of the provincial championships. Counties can and should still be able to start championships in July(and earlier) regardless of when the counties are playing until. 4 months of a closed season is far too long. 1 third of a year as a closed season? Madness. Playing provincial club championships every second year would also be a major backwards step." DonaldDuck maybe one third of the year is too much but having players involved with the club championship who also play club football and hurling while part of their county team running around on Christmas day is far more ridiculous. Let alone county managers doing the same with the rest of the team. Maybe one third of the year to spend with their families, deal with personal life, work on their studies without other pressures, party, get married, have kids mix with their friends and school mates is not too long. Injuries might heal up better and the players come out more refreshed ready to play with more hunger, getting more enjoyment.
If there was a formula/shedule that would allow counties to accommodate and protect the players who are caught up in this full time demand, surly it would have accidentally been stumbled on by now. The reason is no such formula exist with the current competition structures. A player who plays club football, hurling senior, under age, inter county (one sport) under age ,senior and his club qualifying for club championship is over played. They may not be playing all at the same time but are involved in competition or training 53 weeks of the year. If there are just one player in this situation ( there are more) he or she deserves to be protected. Anyway at the end of playing days (value) not too many outside of family will care about him/her.
The bottom line is a truly closed season should mean that. No team training, no club activity and no county activity. Everyone knows that is not the case and that is where the real madness is my friend.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 20/09/2018 21:47:46
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Replying To Canuck: " Replying To legendzxix: " linkSo it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well." This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money. Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail. It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many."
johnwhite12 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 306 - 20/09/2018 22:36:26
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Very good posts Canuck. I 100% agree that league should be scrapped. Never mind Ormo. He is just wrong. Science is on your side. Report today shows that inter County scene is too long and players are suffering mentally, financially etc. Therefore the only logical, common sense approach is to shorten the season significantly.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 20/09/2018 22:39:28
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Replying To Canuck: " Replying To legendzxix: " linkSo it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well." This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money. Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail. It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many."
This year there were no gaps so no club hurling was played in the marble city.
The downside of the new format.
bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 20/09/2018 22:40:11
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DonaldDuck maybe one third of the year is too much but having players involved with the club championship who also play club football and hurling while part of their county team running around on Christmas day is far more ridiculous. Let alone county managers doing the same with the rest of the team. Maybe one third of the year to spend with their families, deal with personal life, work on their studies without other pressures, party, get married, have kids mix with their friends and school mates is not too long. Injuries might heal up better and the players come out more refreshed ready to play with more hunger, getting more enjoyment.
If there was a formula/shedule that would allow counties to accommodate and protect the players who are caught up in this full time demand, surly it would have accidentally been stumbled on by now. The reason is no such formula exist with the current competition structures. A player who plays club football, hurling senior, under age, inter county (one sport) under age ,senior and his club qualifying for club championship is over played. They may not be playing all at the same time but are involved in competition or training 53 weeks of the year. If there are just one player in this situation ( there are more) he or she deserves to be protected. Anyway at the end of playing days (value) not too many outside of family will care about him/her.
The bottom line is a truly closed season should mean that. No team training, no club activity and no county activity. Everyone knows that is not the case and that is where the real madness is my friend.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 333 - 20/09/2018 21:47:46 You simply need a proper off season with all competitions finished.
There is no club rugby in June or July and very very little in May and August. But for inter county level you cant expect standards to remain as they are if you have an off season as long as you suggest. Name other sports with that
Yes playing around christmas is ridiculous
But what also is ridiculous is some players who're u18 or u20/21 playing on 8-10 teams.
You need to cut that down for a lot of players.
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 20/09/2018 23:01:32
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Replying To johnwhite12: " Replying To Canuck: "[quote=legendzxix: " linkSo it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well." This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money. Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail. It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many."
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 20/09/2018 23:06:02
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Its a bit odd, in the quote from the article, the President says 'so relegation wouldn't be a factor' for teams in Division 1 (a+b). But there would still be a relegation play-off between the bottom teams in 1a and 1b, so relegation would still be a factor. And it should be, just like promotion from div 2 should still be a factor.
Its weird, it seems like the whole enterprise is aimed at reducing the status of the league to a series of friendlies. Which maybe is the right idea, I don't know. But if thats the attitude/ approach, is it worth playing the league at all?
I think the romance/excitement generated by teams playing in this years championship, has papered over alot of cracks in the format. My own opinion (and thats all I can offer), is that the success of hurling this year was due to the teams involved (and supporters), not the format. But the new championship format was always going to have implications for the league, as it was essentially duplicating the league format.
If they are going to make these changes, I think they should introduce them for 2019. And I think if they are going to have 2 equal groups of 6, they should dispense with quarter and semi finals, and just have the winner of 1A play the winner of 1B. And if they truly want the league to be a development championship, they should increase the number of teams being promoted to division 1 (and demoted to division 2) from 1 to 2.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 21/09/2018 00:53:35
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Yes, I think it's a good idea to give all NHL teams a chance to try out new players. I would go with -
15 teams in 3 seeded pots of 5.
Draw 5 mixed groups of 3.
Group A hosts B; B hosts C; C v D; D v E; and E v A.
After all have played 6 matches - 4 of 5 best group winners play SFs - e.g. A v C and B v D (or other non-repeats, better records host).
Or, just have top 4 of 15 from combined table (allows wild cards).
Also, worst 2 records of 5 group 3rds go down.
Group position determines next year's pots.
Play similar 12-team Div 2, with 3 pots of 4.
Top 4 of 12 to SFs, Finalists goes up. Rest in Div 3 - Only Champ goes up / worst 3rd Div 2 goes down.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2591 - 21/09/2018 01:50:58
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I don't think the league should be scrapped.
But I think there are too many games.
It should start 1st of March, 3 x groups of 4. 3 games, top 2 ranked teams make the final (score difference if 100% records come in to it).Final 4th week of March.
Job done. April for the clubs.
Championship in May.
Yes it is that simple. No player wants to be slogging around a pitch over Christmas because the league starts in January.
Our players are being flogged to death, they deserve December off at very least. Most of us are unfit and enthusiastic in January.....
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 21/09/2018 09:04:07
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@Canuck (Waterford) - Totally agree with everything you are saying. Makes full sense and the Hurling world would be far better off if implemented
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 23/09/2018 22:02:11
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Replying To Canuck: " Replying To legendzxix: " linkSo it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well." This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money. Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail. It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many."
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 23/09/2018 23:40:01
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Replying To Canuck: " Replying To legendzxix: " linkSo it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well." This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money. Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail. It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many."
Hurling is the jewel in the crown for the GAA and your proposing to not have a single intercounty game during the summer months practically if we start the championship in April!!
The summer is all about hurling, what do we do for the summer months when the best hurling should be taken place?
Theres too much blame being put on the GAA as a whole when individual county boards are the problem when it comes to the club scene imho.
There was only 3 hurling counties hurling in august this year so in reality there should be no excuses for all the rest and i include my own county in that also when it comes to getting club games rolled out.
Reduce the league games and scrap the silly pre season tournaments would be a bigger help.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 24/09/2018 14:38:17
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Replying To tearintom: " Replying To Canuck: "[quote=legendzxix: " linkSo it's official. 1B teams through the opportunity of developing players in the league have an advantage come championship on their 1A rivals. While a competitive league has been great, it's official role is to provide opportunity for experiment as well." This is competition that has out lived its time and one of the reasons the club fixtures is messed up. Get rid of it. Start the championship in April as it is now a league anyway. July should be the start of the club scene. Nurture the club scene because this is where it all begins for players and supporters. This will probably not happen because of MONEY. Always follow the money. Closed season from end of October to end of February. Something has to give. Maybe just provincial club championship or every two years if at all. The inter county game is to play outside your own county if good enough. Trying to juggle fixtures to accommodate so many competitions is a joke and all attempts have and will fail. It becomes annoying to hear every retired county player moaning about the club scene, including Henry. Did he not know or care about the plight of his Ballyhale school mates while he was racking up all those All-Ireland medals. Not picking on Henry he is just one of many."
Hurling is the jewel in the crown for the GAA and your proposing to not have a single intercounty game during the summer months practically if we start the championship in April!!
The summer is all about hurling, what do we do for the summer months when the best hurling should be taken place?
Theres too much blame being put on the GAA as a whole when individual county boards are the problem when it comes to the club scene imho.
There was only 3 hurling counties hurling in august this year so in reality there should be no excuses for all the rest and i include my own county in that also when it comes to getting club games rolled out.
Reduce the league games and scrap the silly pre season tournaments would be a bigger help."]Agree with the scraping of those other competitions. Hurling and football belongs to the clubs not to the county teams. Make the club scene more appealing which would happen because up goes the standard.. The opposite has occurred because they are trying to play in the mud. Yesterday is an example. There can be county games up to the middle of July and launch the club scene straight away. The club players should have been in training and the county players coming back ready to go. Penalise county boards who do not get their act together (or reward the ones that do) and have them stop allowing clubs getting games cancelled because someone's aunty Josey is gone to America.
You can slice it or dice it anyway you want but there is too much demand on players with "too many grades and competitions." The research and stats are there to prove that.The number of players in this situation does not matter. One is one too many. Some of this insatiable desire we have for these great games could be channeled back into the club game.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 24/09/2018 20:41:42
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Who's for the 'Prov 10' playing a 9-match round robin leading to the AI KO Last 6 ?
With 5-Inter Prov matchups replacing the league and the 4-Intra Prov pairings staying in the schedule, the 'round-robin' playing time could remain the same.
The 'top 6' earn AI QFs, while the top 2 of 10 from the respective Provs play in Prov Finals.
The two Prov Champs, most likely also in the 'top 6', get byes to the AI SFs instead. If in the most unlikely event, a Prov Champ also finished 7th in the table, they would earn only an AI QF berth in a 7-team AI KO (the other Prov Champ getting the sole bye to the AI SFs).
Now, i just need to figure out a 9-round schedule, where each team plays a maximum two matches on consecutive weekends - stay tuned !
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2591 - 27/09/2018 00:28:29
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i like the league.i think it is the best run gaa competition.
i love when 1st jan comes around,you know league is not far away.
id rather be freezing in wexford park roaring on the team,than sitting on my tubby any day.now i am often working sunday,but you know what i mean.
my only question is should the league be played on more all weather pitches,how feasible that is though would be hard to know.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 28/09/2018 12:01:23
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So, here it is - to create a 9-round schedule, played over 15 weeks, with a team playing no more than 2 in a row - make the 'bye' schedule as follows -
ABCD EFGH IJAB CDEF GHIJ
ABCD EFGH IJAB CDEF GHIJ
ABCD EFGH IJAB CDEF GHIJ
That is a 15-week schedule, with 3 matches played and 4 teams off each week.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2591 - 29/09/2018 03:16:17
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