Replying To bdbuddah:  "Regarding splitting Dublin. Traditionally less people played GAA sports in Dublin compared to more rural parts of the country. About 15 years ago the GAA decided that Dublin because of its huge population would be treated as a special case to promote the games and huge funds were put in on games development in Dublin to increase the numbers playing there. The money invested in Dublin was way above what would have been justified based purely on playing numbers ( I think at the time Cork had more playing numbers by a bit). The GAA as a whole bought into this as putting rivalries aside it was good for the game. Ultimately if the success of growing the GAA in Dublin continues it will be untenable to have only one intercounty team representing the boundaries of county Dublin as Dublin is a special case (ie. Population of about 1.25m) I can eventually see Dublin being split into its current administrative boundaries (ie. Fingal/South Dublin etc.). Dublin GAA will find this hard to resist if the GAA as a whole comes around to this view as they originally looked to be treated as a special case when it came to funding. There is a precedence for this in the GAA, I believe at one time the Kerry county board ordered a club in Tralee to be split into 3 separate clubs. Personally I don't think we have arrived at the moment where Dublin should be split as it is hard to say for certain if Dublin's domination of football is a golden era or the new norm. Regarding the possible amalgamation of counties. I can eventually see some counties coming to this conclusion themselves. Something along the lines of the divisional set up for junior club teams in Cork and Kerry to play in the senior club championship. This could be part if a new tiered football championship."

Replying To TheUsername:  "I always find these arguments very contradictory, like in your post you say its a massive advantage that Dublin have a population of 1.298 million. Then on the other hand people bemoan the fact that the size of the population is funded to participate in Gaelic games. Its not treating like for like really. It boils down to cutting the funding for 1.345 million,

If population is the advantage then that is the metric that has to be looked at he dictating factor for GDF:

Here is the breakdown:

2017 games devlopment funding (source below):

Population of Dublin: 1.345 million, Games Development Funding: 1.298 million, Ratio per head of population: 96 cent

Population of Kerry: 140.600k, Games Development Funding 197.600k, Ratio per head of population: 1.40 euro.

Population of Mayo: 130k, Games Devlopment Funding: 127.98k, Ratio per head of population: 98 cent.

Population of Donegal: 158k, Games Devlopment Funding: 132.000K Ratio per head of population: 83 cent.

Population of Galway: 258,552, Games Development Funding: 178.400k Ratio per head of Population: 69 cent.

Population of Tyrone: 177.986k, Games Developmet Funding: 119k, Ratio per head of population: 66 cent.

Population of Monghan: 60,483k Games Devlopment Funding: 122.500k, Ratio per head of population: 1.99 euro.

Population of Cork: 542,196k, Games Development Funding: 249k, Ratio per head of population: 45 cent.

Population of Kildare: 222,130, Games Developemnt Funding: 226.428k, Ratio per head of population: 1 euro.

Population of Meath: 194,942, Games Development Funding: 267.421k, Ratio per head of population: 1.37 euro.


Page 67. http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/...18_English.pdf

Note the additional allocation given to the provinces at the top of the page, this is divided by the provincial council to all the teams in the province for coaching. The only team not to get this is Dublin.

I get that many make an arguement about registered players but i take issue with that method for the following reasons:


1). Games development money doesn't go to registered players. The intention of the money is to attract players to Gaelic games rather then fund those already registered.

2). The reason why the Dublin ratio figures are so high is Dublin have woeful registered player numbers, essentially the ratio of registered players to population is 39k registered players to 1.345 million people. To me that highlights and justifies why the battle to attract people to Gaelic games is a greater need in Dublin for the GAA then any other county in the country. Surely the GAA should target the greater amount of people as opposed to jingoism or county boundary. The registered player measure actually justifies the need for the level of funding as opposed to unravelling it in my opinion.

3) Comparison studies are ridiculous when comparing Dublin, essentially people compare huge figures like 16 mill, or 1.2 million, its not like comparing like for like. As my figures illustrate many counties for no rhyme or reason do pound for pound better then Dublin in GDF.


I haven't met anyone yet who counter logically with analysis or with evidence base (figures) any of the above.

Essentially people who advocate, for a Dublin split are doing it on the basis of splitting a playing cohort of 39k registered players. People who want the funding cut of 1.2 million people want it done even though euro for euro Dublin arent the most well off county in the country for GDF. The ratio of 39k registered players out of population 1.2 mill lclearly indicates the poor take up of Gaelic games in Dublin and highlights the need to grow the games in the biggest population centre in the country.

Ti be fair if Dublin had playing numbers of 75k - 100k i would be wholly in agreement of redistributing some of the funding. Fact is though per percentage of registered players to population Dublins numbers are one of the worst."

Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Why are the registered players numbers so bad Username? Is there bottlenecks, I.e. not enough clubs? It does seem very low. I'm genuinely curious."

Replying To bdbuddah:  "All things being equal in most sporting organisations funding would follow where people are playing. Had you looked at things this way statistics would have looked very different and Dublin would have looked way way over funded. I agree Dublin should get more funding than their playing base suggests based on the population and therefore potential to grow the game. But surely if they then succeed in growing the games its fair to look again at the competition structures ?. Say if football becomes as popular in Dublin per capita as it is nationally per capita could that make current competition ridiculous ?"

Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "1918, was there a call to split Wexford in 2? No instead the country was, it was a disaster. This obsession of splitting in 2 is ridiculous, Dublin have 15 men on the pitch like everybody else. Right now the 2 hypothetical Dublin teams would meet in the final, then what? Copy the hurling with groups and let the best team win."

Replying To TheUsername:  "There are many contributing factors in my opinion Gerry. I know there is narrative out there that the DCB do a wonderful job with any finance given, im not really sure they do and certainly its something that needs to be questioned.

To answer your question in my opinion, its very difficult to look at dublin through the same lens that might exist in other counties. In most other counties the parish or town tends to be that little bit more distinct and the club is a huge part of the identity of the parish or the town. It also acts as a social hub with a well trodden path as a priority for the parish almost as an unconscious pathway. Ive played club football both in Dublin and in rural Ireland and the level of priority given to each in the different areas is very different. When i played club football down the country everyone in the town knew, when i played in Dublin very few in the area bar others who played for the club would know and if im being honest most wouldn't know where the grounds were. It would be important to say i didnt play for a club in Dublin who would be one of the traditional big GAA areas like on the north side or Crokes or Ballyboden. These clubs act liek a satellite for anyone interested in Gaeilc games and attract players from different areas, again undermining the parish or small community representation.

You often hear the argument of competing sports in Dublin and that is very true, but to share my experience and unpack that a little bit i grew up playing Gaelic football, soccer and rugby. There were about 10 of us at school who probably were on the three club sides as well as the school team. What that meant practically for me, was that training for those three sports often clashed and there was huge pressure from each of the three club sides in particular not the play the other sport, coaches, trainers even sometimes parents. If i played for the soccer or Rugby team i often wouldn't be picked for the Gaelic football team and vice versa. So there is a pressure very early on to nail your colors to one of the sports. Now i happened to better at soccer and Rugby then i was at gaeilic football so i shelved Gaelic football for maybe about five years in crucial years, before starting to play it again rurally, that is what often happens in Dublin. Of the group of ten of us that played each of the three sports, one is a current Irish international Rugby player, who was plucked from our school by Leinster rugby and was given a pathway to a Rugby playing school and eventually the Leinster academy and has a brilliant career. Another went on to play in the Championship and PL in England and went on to represent Ireland. so as a youngster in my experience there are huge pressures to make choices at an early age, that are sometimes based on logistics, pressures and social group and a pathway and opportunity that may be presented to you. One of the reasons i shelved gaelic football for a few years was the dogmatic attitude of the GAA coaches to other sports and playing them and not being picked then for the football team even if you attended traing etc. My experience rurrally was completely different. The Gaa club team was priority no 1 for everyone in the parish and while soccer and rugby were played they always seemed like lower priorities or a bit of messing in a parish or played by lads who couldn't play GAA. Parishes or areas in Dublin simply arent distinctive in Dublin and perhaps the sense of community of a distinct area doesn't exist in the same way in does in the country perhaps due to proximity over such a small land mass.

The other reason i think number are low is due to make up of Dublin, we have a big yet transient population, many economic migrants from other counties who tend to be transient and migrants from other other countries who dont have a tradition in GAA or any particular affiliation to the country never mind a club. One example i happened to be out in Dublin for a pretty big club championship match the same night as Croatia beat england to get to the semi final the scenes ofn the street were incredible but not because the club had won the big match it was the coration community celebrating and the scenes were incredible. I dont think that would happen anywhere else but Dublin.

Lastly i think the DCB have dont some terrific work in raising the profile of the game on the southside of the county, for me their has always been a strong sense of GAA on the Northside, if you look at strong Dublin teams from the eras gone by they are almost exclusively made up of Northside club men. Now the games profile on the southside has become attractive and if you look at the current Dublin team many are from the southside, this is the biggest reason for me for Dublin success. However Dublins success is very centered around satellite clubs in the "general area". You will find that not many of the Kickham lads arent from Ballymun, Bally boden necessarily from Rathfarnam or Crokes necessarily Stillorgan. These clubs have huge numbers at underage but to state the obvious only 15 can play at Senior. For me there arent enough clubs in Dublin and we loose players that way who might get fed up in the age groups because the bar is so high to make the sneior club teams.

Lastly i think the are huge growth areas of the City that remain uncatered for, i often hear it said on here that Tallaght has more of a population then Louth. Wheich i think is true, but i cant remember a Gaelic footballer from Tallaght since Keith Barr. Ultimately i believe that GAA, the club scene in particular isnt developed in the outer suburbs were the youth is, Tallaght, Lucan, Clondalkin Balnchardstown, and then new sprawling sububs, this is the growth areas of Dublin and where the youth is. Yet you may have one club for the whole area. There have been over 40k homes built in Lucan alon e in the last ten years and 60k more planned. Sarsfilds remain the only club and equally Towers in Clndalkin. So hugh swaths of the population still go uncatered for or the profile of GAA remains undeveloped. These areas are consistently churning out international sports stars who never played GAA.

So ultimately i think the problem is multifaceted, its about the right approach to attracting youth in competition with other sports, i think its about embracing a diverse population and being creative, it think there needs to be more clubs for lads to play senor in a starting 15 and the lower the bar a bit rather then just a few high profile satellite clubs and think there needs to be huge work done on the profile of the game n West Couty Dublin were much of youth will be in tallaght, Clondalking, Lucan And Blacnhardstown, those areas really need a lot of work.

I think if we up our numbers of registered players up to 70k-100k thats the point were you can say the funding has been a success and needs looking at."

Replying To Kurt_Angle:  ""...I cant remember a Gaelic footballer from Tallaght since Keith Barr"

Keith or Erin's Isle wouldn't thank you for that statement :-)

You are right, though, that Tallaght has been poorly represented on the Dublin team given the population of the area, though soccer is king out there. There have been a few in my time following the Dubs, though not too many in recent memory. Some notable Tallafornians include:

Paul Curran
Dave Foran
Paul Nugent
Paul Hudson
Dotsy O'Callaghan
Joe McNally
Lorcan Molloy

Apologies to those omitted."

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "dublin could easily have 4 teams due to their population, what about the fellas who break their arses for their clubs and would be good enough to play intercounty football but because of Dublin only having 1 team they'll never get the chance?"

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "dublin could easily have 4 teams due to their population, what about the fellas who break their arses for their clubs and would be good enough to play intercounty football but because of Dublin only having 1 team they'll never get the chance?"

Replying To bdbuddah:  "I think many debates on Dublin's funding/ success misses the reason why Dublin got funding in the first place. The GAA with the buy in of the other counties agreed to increase Dublin's funding to try to counter the fact that Gaelic sports traditionally were not as popular in Dublin as most other counties. Considering Dublin have such a huge proportion of the national population this was a huge issue. If the extra funding is successful at increasing the popularity of the sports hugely in the city then a by product may be the knock on effect of making inter county competition's no longer fit for purpose due to Dublin's huge population (I don't think we actually are at that point yet but the GAA can still get more popular in the city). Dublin got more money as it was the obvious area for the GAA to focus on if they wanted to grow the games. I remember recently talking to someone who laughed how he now sometimes sees people in Dalkey with hurls and how unheard of that would have been years ago. It would be ridiculous in the future if funding was cut to Dublin to even up inter county competitions, surely it would be better to continue growing the games here but split Dublin into constituent areas ? (again as I said I don't think we are at the point where Dublin may need to be split but we may be getting close to it)"

Replying To yew_tree:  "No appetite for it among fans or players."

Replying To cavandub:  "Just out of curiosity what is there an appetite for amongst fans and players?

The fans are dissinterested and turning away in droves and the players are bemoaning the fact that they can't compete with the Dubs, but they don't want a second tier championship to give them more games.

So what are they looking for?"

Replying To cavandub:  "Just out of curiosity what is there an appetite for amongst fans and players?

The fans are dissinterested and turning away in droves and the players are bemoaning the fact that they can't compete with the Dubs, but they don't want a second tier championship to give them more games.

So what are they looking for?"

Replying To TheUsername:  "Id take issue with you points mate.

I think there is argument there to be made that lower attendances are down purely because the entertainment of the games has been low, apart form Dublin and Kerry and one or two others who are in the minority, i cant think of teams who have gone and tried to play expansive football. Im not sure falling attendances are due t one team who happen to play 8 games when there is 100 in the championship. In essence no one wants to go and watch good teams try and break down a defensive shell, or two defensive shells cancel each other out. The problem with falling attendances is the lack of entertainment as opposed to the country waving a white flag at it in my honest opinion.

Has a player come out and said they cant compete with the Dubs?"

Replying To kerryhound:  "I don't understand why there would be no appetite among fans and players for merging teams. At the moment good players from weaker counties have little or no chance of ever competing, let alone winning at the highest level. As a result many don't even bother making themselves available for their counties which further weakens them. Could you imagine if the best players from Dublin, Kerry or Mayo wouldn't make themselves available to the county team. It simply doesn't happen because they have a realistic chance of success. In any other sport the best players have an opportunity to play at the highest level but not in GAA.
Merging teams is the only way this can be achieved. Furthermore, it can be achieved while still maintaining the county team. They would simply compete at their own level early in the year and merge when their own championship teir has concluded as the divisional sides do in Kerry and Cork do.
Counties merging into provincial teams would probably be the best way of ensuring they would be able to compete. The provinces could then compete against each other, thus reviving the Railway Cup, and the winning province could enter the all Ireland at the semifinal stage.
I don't think distances for players to travel to training would be a problem as it would only be for a couple of months maximum and it doesn't seem to be a problem for the Mayo players, most of whom travel from Dublin (where they are based) to train."