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Replying To MesAmis: "There is no way that that is true.
It's an even more ridiculous idea that the one about the team getting their food delivered to them for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday." Mesamis it's not inconceivable up get your meal plans delivered. I'm sure the Dublin setup includes nutritionists that could make up meal plans for the players.
Smiler21 (Tyrone) - Posts: 46 - 09/09/2018 15:16:35
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Replying To TheUsername: "Not sure both things need to be mutually exclusive, there is definitely a place in this community for those who have experience of the past to share that knowledge and wisdom and analysis of how it applies to the current context. Particularly the analysis on reaction on how success is digested in the regular GAA mindset. I dont always agree with Furlong, but he wrote some terrific stuff and provides great back up for his analysis, i really enjoy his posts." I don't think the past exploits of teams does apply to the current context, its a very different GAA today. That's my point. The GAA landscape is very different now with S&C, championship structures, finances and sponsorship. How things were run in the past has to correlation to the modern game. I can't see the point in navel gazing so much when we have moved into a modern era very different to what went before. With falling interest,showing itself in lower attendances, i think we should be looking at how to keep the game fresh and attractive around the country and not glorying achievements from a bygone era. The future needs to be looked after, not the past. If you are always looking backwards you can never see where you are going.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 09/09/2018 16:47:25
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Replying To Jackeen: "More fake news I'm afraid. Not in my club which is one of the larger clubs in Dublin too." Fair enough. It's what I was told but hardly worth arguing if I wasn't there.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 09/09/2018 17:15:07
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Replying To TribalThing: "Of Course it is not.
Dublin have More money than the rest of the counties alrite, but when would this ever not have been the case.
Dublin as a GAA organisation would always have had more club members and more sponsorship. This never transferred to AI titles directly.
What Dublin have done is invested in underage structures. Its quite simple. And to invest in underage structures in Dublin is a lot more difficult than in any other county in Ireland.
Take population and multi culturism alone.
Its time to stop the whinging and look up to the dubs for showing everyone else what hard work, commitment and talent can do.
Money never bought an all Ireland before, and it aint going to start now." Did Dublin win any minor title in recent years its
not all going into underage
wfkerry (USA) - Posts: 933 - 09/09/2018 18:53:41
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Did Dublin win any minor title in recent years its
not all going into underage
wfkerry (USA) - Posts: 891 - 09/09/2018 18:53:41You can invest heavily in underage for help for future senior etc and not necessarily win anything at minor level. Though Dublin have won quite a few u21 titles in recent years
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 09/09/2018 19:47:17
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Minor for me is not as important as under 20/21.
It is given more importance becuase the Final is coupled with the senior but the reality is that U20/U21 is were a player can make the jump from this group to senior.
Highligh been Dublin winning for 4 titles in the last few years
I would argue that till Kerry are winning U20/U21 titles they they will have issues becuase after minor lads go to univeristy, hit the drink, etc and so it not till you are producing strong U20/U21 teams can you really get the measure of lads.
And on this point I have now idea why footbal has gone to U20, should be brought back to U21
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 10/09/2018 08:40:44
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Replying To witnof: "Minor for me is not as important as under 20/21.
It is given more importance becuase the Final is coupled with the senior but the reality is that U20/U21 is were a player can make the jump from this group to senior.
Highligh been Dublin winning for 4 titles in the last few years
I would argue that till Kerry are winning U20/U21 titles they they will have issues becuase after minor lads go to univeristy, hit the drink, etc and so it not till you are producing strong U20/U21 teams can you really get the measure of lads.
And on this point I have now idea why footbal has gone to U20, should be brought back to U21" Yes u20 is the feeder club for senior football. They brought it back to 20 from 21 to allow 21 year olds play only for Seniors. 20 have to nominate one or the other as far as I know. Burnout and injury the reason
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 10/09/2018 09:20:50
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Replying To Smiler21: "Mesamis it's not inconceivable up get your meal plans delivered. I'm sure the Dublin setup includes nutritionists that could make up meal plans for the players." Huge difference between a nutritionist making up menu/meal plans and actually making 30+ meals for breakfast dinner and tea 24/7. I have no idea were these urban myths are being created, but they are getting ever more bizarre and silly.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 10/09/2018 10:04:41
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Does that figure include free helmets and hurls for every under age player in Dublin? Just asking because a friend of mine needed both for his son and it was gona cost him £70. He has a friend in Dublin who told him he'd get him sorted. When he asked how much it would cost his friend told him not to worry, under age players in Dublin get them for free. That would be quite an annual bill." What a gross exaggeration! Certain larger Dublin clubs will provide young kids with a hurley and a helmet when they turn up. They do not get these items for free - they are given back at the end of training / matches. This is purely an effort to get more kids involved in the sport and not to exclude kids whose families might struggle to provide such items. Quoting a "friend of a friend" will invariably result in spouting nonsense - "free helmets and hurls for every under age player in Dublin", my eye!
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 10/09/2018 11:24:14
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Replying To legendzxix: "Dublin GAA representative in 2011 - "From a financial point of view we do need to be pushing for provincial status. Right now we have about 20% of the country's population...So it doesn't make sense that we should still be considered one 32th of the country, rather than 1/5"
This is the same argument I've made regards provincial status and the traditional values of the Railway Cup." No link provided, no identifiable source quoted -> no attention paid.
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 10/09/2018 11:25:29
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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu: "The current Dublin team is truly exceptional and I am sure all of the players have worked incredibly hard to earn their success. When I saw the headline, I initially rolled my eyes and dismissed the article as begrudgery. But when I actually read it, this sentence blew my mind:
Between 2010 and 2014, in central games development money, per registered player, Tyrone got €21, Mayo €22, Kerry €19, while Dublin got €274.40..
Of course Dublin should get more money in total since it has far more players and clubs to cater for than other counties. But why on earth should there be such a huge discrepancy in the amount per registered player? Surely the amount per player should be roughly the same for all counties. This situation is completely unfair and clearly favours Dublin significantly. I don't know how anyone can defend such a lopsided funding formula." The problem with the findings is the metrics used. Using registered players as the divisor produces incorrect results. For example, if you divided the Dublin pot by total population, you would get a low figure per head but it would be inaccurate as not all persons in Dublin are i) of an age / ability to play gaelic games or ii) interested in the GAA, no matter how much money is thrown at it, so this divisor produces results skewed in favour of those arguing that Dublin has appropriate funding or needs more etc. If you divide by registered player, this also produces inaccurate results as the funding is primarily towards games development - i.e. to fund those who are not registered and to get them on board with the GAA. Using this metric "proves" that Dublin is overfunded. Its a question of using the correct metric - something like: (total fund) - (that which is not used for development) / (all Dublin kids not currently playing) - (those who have no interest and never will) - (those who can't play for whatever reason) - (other). There's probably loads of factors I've omitted from both the dividend and the divisor but using a single figure as the divisor is way too simplistic and is a lazy means of both sides "proving" their opinion is "correct".
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 10/09/2018 11:50:24
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: " Replying To Gaillimh_Abu: "The current Dublin team is truly exceptional and I am sure all of the players have worked incredibly hard to earn their success. When I saw the headline, I initially rolled my eyes and dismissed the article as begrudgery. But when I actually read it, this sentence blew my mind:
Between 2010 and 2014, in central games development money, per registered player, Tyrone got €21, Mayo €22, Kerry €19, while Dublin got €274.40..
Of course Dublin should get more money in total since it has far more players and clubs to cater for than other counties. But why on earth should there be such a huge discrepancy in the amount per registered player? Surely the amount per player should be roughly the same for all counties. This situation is completely unfair and clearly favours Dublin significantly. I don't know how anyone can defend such a lopsided funding formula." The problem with the findings is the metrics used. Using registered players as the divisor produces incorrect results. For example, if you divided the Dublin pot by total population, you would get a low figure per head but it would be inaccurate as not all persons in Dublin are i) of an age / ability to play gaelic games or ii) interested in the GAA, no matter how much money is thrown at it, so this divisor produces results skewed in favour of those arguing that Dublin has appropriate funding or needs more etc. If you divide by registered player, this also produces inaccurate results as the funding is primarily towards games development - i.e. to fund those who are not registered and to get them on board with the GAA. Using this metric "proves" that Dublin is overfunded. Its a question of using the correct metric - something like: (total fund) - (that which is not used for development) / (all Dublin kids not currently playing) - (those who have no interest and never will) - (those who can't play for whatever reason) - (other). There's probably loads of factors I've omitted from both the dividend and the divisor but using a single figure as the divisor is way too simplistic and is a lazy means of both sides "proving" their opinion is "correct"."
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 10/09/2018 12:40:59
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I think that Dublin should get a lot more than other counties, the problem how much that should be. not one person here would be arguing if they were on the receiving end of the funding.
The biggest gripe I have in all this is the fact that the GAA is solely focused on money generation at all costs that fairness in the organisation.
whenever there is a change to anything be it the rule / fixture / squad sizes you can be sure the top teams are looked after and the weaker counties have to make do.
ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 259 - 10/09/2018 13:33:59
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: " Replying To Gaillimh_Abu: "The current Dublin team is truly exceptional and I am sure all of the players have worked incredibly hard to earn their success. When I saw the headline, I initially rolled my eyes and dismissed the article as begrudgery. But when I actually read it, this sentence blew my mind:
Between 2010 and 2014, in central games development money, per registered player, Tyrone got €21, Mayo €22, Kerry €19, while Dublin got €274.40..
Of course Dublin should get more money in total since it has far more players and clubs to cater for than other counties. But why on earth should there be such a huge discrepancy in the amount per registered player? Surely the amount per player should be roughly the same for all counties. This situation is completely unfair and clearly favours Dublin significantly. I don't know how anyone can defend such a lopsided funding formula." The problem with the findings is the metrics used. Using registered players as the divisor produces incorrect results. For example, if you divided the Dublin pot by total population, you would get a low figure per head but it would be inaccurate as not all persons in Dublin are i) of an age / ability to play gaelic games or ii) interested in the GAA, no matter how much money is thrown at it, so this divisor produces results skewed in favour of those arguing that Dublin has appropriate funding or needs more etc. If you divide by registered player, this also produces inaccurate results as the funding is primarily towards games development - i.e. to fund those who are not registered and to get them on board with the GAA. Using this metric "proves" that Dublin is overfunded. Its a question of using the correct metric - something like: (total fund) - (that which is not used for development) / (all Dublin kids not currently playing) - (those who have no interest and never will) - (those who can't play for whatever reason) - (other). There's probably loads of factors I've omitted from both the dividend and the divisor but using a single figure as the divisor is way too simplistic and is a lazy means of both sides "proving" their opinion is "correct"."
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/09/2018 13:40:44
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Replying To kildare73: " Replying To Kurt_Angle: "[quote=Gaillimh_Abu: "The current Dublin team is truly exceptional and I am sure all of the players have worked incredibly hard to earn their success. When I saw the headline, I initially rolled my eyes and dismissed the article as begrudgery. But when I actually read it, this sentence blew my mind:
Between 2010 and 2014, in central games development money, per registered player, Tyrone got €21, Mayo €22, Kerry €19, while Dublin got €274.40..
Of course Dublin should get more money in total since it has far more players and clubs to cater for than other counties. But why on earth should there be such a huge discrepancy in the amount per registered player? Surely the amount per player should be roughly the same for all counties. This situation is completely unfair and clearly favours Dublin significantly. I don't know how anyone can defend such a lopsided funding formula." The problem with the findings is the metrics used. Using registered players as the divisor produces incorrect results. For example, if you divided the Dublin pot by total population, you would get a low figure per head but it would be inaccurate as not all persons in Dublin are i) of an age / ability to play gaelic games or ii) interested in the GAA, no matter how much money is thrown at it, so this divisor produces results skewed in favour of those arguing that Dublin has appropriate funding or needs more etc. If you divide by registered player, this also produces inaccurate results as the funding is primarily towards games development - i.e. to fund those who are not registered and to get them on board with the GAA. Using this metric "proves" that Dublin is overfunded. Its a question of using the correct metric - something like: (total fund) - (that which is not used for development) / (all Dublin kids not currently playing) - (those who have no interest and never will) - (those who can't play for whatever reason) - (other). There's probably loads of factors I've omitted from both the dividend and the divisor but using a single figure as the divisor is way too simplistic and is a lazy means of both sides "proving" their opinion is "correct"."
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 10/09/2018 13:49:19
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "What a gross exaggeration! Certain larger Dublin clubs will provide young kids with a hurley and a helmet when they turn up. They do not get these items for free - they are given back at the end of training / matches. This is purely an effort to get more kids involved in the sport and not to exclude kids whose families might struggle to provide such items. Quoting a "friend of a friend" will invariably result in spouting nonsense - "free helmets and hurls for every under age player in Dublin", my eye!" I had a look at Dublin commercial figures a while back and i was shocked about a lack of fundraising by the county board in comparison to Mayo and Kerry in particular. mayo for example were 70k short of Dublins commercial figures and the bulk of that was made up of fundraising as opposed to commercial revenue in Dublins case.
I queried this with someone in the know on these matters as i assumed it was the lazy end of the spectrum. I know im quoting a friend of a friend. But the answer i got is that it is a purposeful approach by the DCB not to fund raise for the County teams as so much of the club revenue comes from fundraising. Its a point i hadn't considered and actually does make sense when you consider the 50/50 method employed by Dublin clubs in funding coaching, the development of facilities and the great development work done by some clubs, also it makes huge sense in cultivating the big population that is here in Dublin that can be tapped into.
During the conversation I had in my head clubs like Castleknock, Crokes, Culala and Ballyboden as examples and their huge development in a relatively short space of time, imagine fundraising in some of those areas.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/09/2018 14:22:07
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: " Replying To legendzxix: "Dublin GAA representative in 2011 - "From a financial point of view we do need to be pushing for provincial status. Right now we have about 20% of the country's population...So it doesn't make sense that we should still be considered one 32th of the country, rather than 1/5"
This is the same argument I've made regards provincial status and the traditional values of the Railway Cup." No link provided, no identifiable source quoted -> no attention paid."
Link: http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/the-blue-wave.pdf
Andy Kettle's Blue Wave document.
From page 29:
The Strategic Committee believes that there should be a mutual recognition
of the interdependent relationship between Dublin's ambitions for the GAA
in the capital city and the overall wellbeing of the Association. It will require
Dublin County Board to step up to its responsibility to implement the
strategic initiatives recommended in this review. It will also require Central
Council to embrace a different funding model, one which addresses the
strategic significance of Dublin.
One way of addressing this issue is for the GAA to extend Provincial status
to Dublin for certain purposes including:
■ providing a long-term commitment to an agreed minimum annual
level of funding, commensurate with the development challenge for
the GAA in Dublin, to support games development, and club and
county infrastructure development.
■ affording the Chairman of the Dublin Co Board permanent
representation on Coisti Banaistí.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 10/09/2018 14:31:43
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Replying To TheUsername: " Replying To Kurt_Angle: "What a gross exaggeration! Certain larger Dublin clubs will provide young kids with a hurley and a helmet when they turn up. They do not get these items for free - they are given back at the end of training / matches. This is purely an effort to get more kids involved in the sport and not to exclude kids whose families might struggle to provide such items. Quoting a "friend of a friend" will invariably result in spouting nonsense - "free helmets and hurls for every under age player in Dublin", my eye!" I had a look at Dublin commercial figures a while back and i was shocked about a lack of fundraising by the county board in comparison to Mayo and Kerry in particular. mayo for example were 70k short of Dublins commercial figures and the bulk of that was made up of fundraising as opposed to commercial revenue in Dublins case. I queried this with someone in the know on these matters as i assumed it was the lazy end of the spectrum. I know im quoting a friend of a friend. But the answer i got is that it is a purposeful approach by the DCB not to fund raise for the County teams as so much of the club revenue comes from fundraising. Its a point i hadn't considered and actually does make sense when you consider the 50/50 method employed by Dublin clubs in funding coaching, the development of facilities and the great development work done by some clubs, also it makes huge sense in cultivating the big population that is here in Dublin that can be tapped into. During the conversation I had in my head clubs like Castleknock, Crokes, Culala and Ballyboden as examples and their huge development in a relatively short space of time, imagine fundraising in some of those areas."
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 10/09/2018 14:56:05
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Replying To Greenfield: " Replying To Kurt_Angle: "[quote=legendzxix: "Dublin GAA representative in 2011 - "From a financial point of view we do need to be pushing for provincial status. Right now we have about 20% of the country's population...So it doesn't make sense that we should still be considered one 32th of the country, rather than 1/5"
This is the same argument I've made regards provincial status and the traditional values of the Railway Cup." No link provided, no identifiable source quoted -> no attention paid."
Link: http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/the-blue-wave.pdf
Andy Kettle's Blue Wave document.
From page 29:
The Strategic Committee believes that there should be a mutual recognition
of the interdependent relationship between Dublin's ambitions for the GAA
in the capital city and the overall wellbeing of the Association. It will require
Dublin County Board to step up to its responsibility to implement the
strategic initiatives recommended in this review. It will also require Central
Council to embrace a different funding model, one which addresses the
strategic significance of Dublin.
One way of addressing this issue is for the GAA to extend Provincial status
to Dublin for certain purposes including:
■ providing a long-term commitment to an agreed minimum annual
level of funding, commensurate with the development challenge for
the GAA in Dublin, to support games development, and club and
county infrastructure development.
■ affording the Chairman of the Dublin Co Board permanent
representation on Coisti Banaistí."]Seriously? Did you even read what you copied and pasted or did you just put in the first item that had a key word search including "provincial status"? Firstly, the provided quotes are different so I'm not sure why you've included these as a way to corroborate the original post. Secondly, the quotes just refer to a suggestion to extend provincial status to Dublin for funding purposes and to support the overall GAA strategy- no aspect refers to Dublin competing on a provincial level. Can you please explain what point exactly you were trying to make with the provided quotes as I am genuinely lost?
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 10/09/2018 15:13:07
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "What a gross exaggeration! Certain larger Dublin clubs will provide young kids with a hurley and a helmet when they turn up. They do not get these items for free - they are given back at the end of training / matches. This is purely an effort to get more kids involved in the sport and not to exclude kids whose families might struggle to provide such items. Quoting a "friend of a friend" will invariably result in spouting nonsense - "free helmets and hurls for every under age player in Dublin", my eye!" I already said fair enough. Some of you lads need to wind the neck in. You'd think you owned Hoganstand as well as the GAA ;)
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 10/09/2018 16:17:09
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