jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/09/2018 14:07:09    2140132

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 07/09/2018 14:29:40    2140140

Not false.
Not tarnished.
Not bought unless you mean bought with blood sweat and tears.
All that said I accept that we got more than our fair share of cash from the GAA over the last 10 years.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 07/09/2018 14:31:07    2140141

All this talk this week is only going to solidify this current Dubs team.

They know the 100's of hours they've put in and the absolute dedication to the cause on and off the pitch.

All this chatter is making Jim Gavin's task in 2019 that bit easier

It's a hugely disrespectful assertion on many levels and it must be a hugely motivational factor for the Dublin panel.

I've no dobut about that.

Keep fueling the fire!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/09/2018 14:36:15    2140143

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 07/09/2018 14:58:53    2140153

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/09/2018 15:15:37    2140157

Kilmacud have a bigger pick than Leitrim
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4836 - 07/09/2018 12:33:19 proof?

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 07/09/2018 15:27:24    2140160

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 07/09/2018 15:49:05    2140172

Alan Brogan feels insulted that it should be suggested that Dublin success is simply down to money. He makes the point that it is down to hard work and committment etc. I can understand his point. However, how does he think footballers around the country feel when it is implied (in articles such as his) that they simply need to be more committed and work harder to gain success? Not alone do these players put in the required time and effort in the gym and on the training pitch but may also have to put in anything up to 5 or 6 hours travelling time for each session. Yes Allan, you have a right to feel insulted but that doesn't mean that you have to insult other players around the country who don't have All-Ireland medals dangling around their necks.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 07/09/2018 16:05:43    2140178

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7870 - 07/09/2018 17:39:41    2140193

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 07/09/2018 17:58:59    2140198

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 07/09/2018 18:07:05    2140202

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 07/09/2018 18:11:25    2140205

Dublin are to be congratulated - their achievement is incredible - putting 4 together is just fantastic and all credit to them.
Their achievement is not tarnished by anything - in fact the players are really well grounded and do not have a 'big head' at all!
They are a credit to themselves and to their county. They are a credit to each other and the bond that has been built up in this team is remarkable.
I think there is nothing about their achievements to date that has tarnished anything. A credit is what they are.
People throwing the 'money' argument at their achievement is to be honest a slight on their achievement and is most disappointing but as many will say - begrudgery is not far from the surface in Ireland.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 07/09/2018 18:12:30    2140206

Kilmacud have a bigger pick than Leitrim
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4836 - 07/09/2018 12:33:19 still waiting on the proof that Kilmacud have a bigger pick than Leitrim gotmilk. Can you prove it?

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 07/09/2018 19:01:52    2140217

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 996 - 07/09/2018 19:59:20    2140224

Have Dublin bought their Sucess?.

I am a Meath man and if I thought Dublin bought their last few All-Irelands I would have no problem telling them so. However fair is fair. And for me there is no question or doubt that they didnt.
For me its starting to turn into u r in the Dublin camp or the anti Dublin camp. Things in life are never black and white. I have a few criticisms of Dublin GAA which I will put up later but in terms of their greatness, there is no question we are looking at an incredible team.

The reasons why Dublin didnt buy sucess

1 The main reason why Dublin have been sucessful has been down to two men Pat Gilroy and Jim Galvin building a team in the image of Heffernans team. Let me explain.

In the 80s 90s and 00s Dublin were probably one of the most difficult oppnents to beat. There is coincidence that so many teams that defeated Dublin went onto win Sam afterwards. Playing in front of a packed Croker was the closed thing to an All-Ireland final.

Dublin teams in 80s 90s and 00s were always in the top teams in the country , full of skill and great players. Look at the Dublin team in early 90s late 80s eg Hargan Kennedy Barr Curran Heery Sheedy Farrell Sherlock Duff Rock McNally Redmond Galvin. Thats a serious team of players. But there was a soft under belly.

In so many matchs in 80s 90s and 00s v Meath kerry and Ulster teams Dublin were beaten. Dublin won 1 All Ireland in 26 years between 1984 and 2010. They reached 0 All Ireland finals between 1996 to 2010. In many close matchs Dublin would lose eg Meath 86 87 88 90 91 96 99 01. Kerry 84 85 01 09, Armagh 02, Tyrone 05 and 08, Donegal 92, Derry 93 , Down 94. One reason for was the whole Hill 16 image / idea.

Let me explain. Hill 16 is one of the great sights in Irish sport. It has intimated many teams in the past. But Meath kerry and Ulster teams used the Hill 16 to beat Dublin. There mantra was silence the Hill , beat the Dubs. In Meath Sean Boylan who defeated Dublin a remarkable 9 times and had 4 draws in championship v Dublin. His philosophy was stop Dublin getting a goal. Silence the hill. You will win. The Dubs would feed off the hill. The hill would go ballistic if Dublin scored a goal. The Dubs got a lift. Remarkably in those 9 victories over Dublin in over 10 years in the championship in every single of those 9 victories Boylan achieved ,Dublin did not score 1 goal. Every time in last 35 years Meath have stopped Dublin scoring a goal, kept them goal ess in a championship game. Meath won. The only game that this didn't happen was in the 2007 replay when Dublin defeated Meath with 20 points and 0 goals.

The Dubs played to the hill. There was a swagger to Dublin. In 00s it went up a level. Running onto the field clapping to hill 16, raising fists to the hill. This was not Heffernans Dublin. Heffernan Dublin was built before Hill 16. Modern Hill 16 was created after and during Heffos sucess 74 to 77. That Dublin team did not play to the hill. There was no clapping to the hill when they came on the field.

The feeling was in Meath if u kept Dublin goaless and really put it up to Dublin. They would be very difficult to beat. And they were .But there was a soft underbelly. Silence the Hill. Defeat the Dubs.

The reason why Dublin have been sucessful they have best players in the country but because Gilroy and Galvin and Farrell brillant management. They stopped all this clapping to the hill. This team was built more in the image of Heffernans teams. Mickey Whelan and Pat Gilroy built this modern sucessful Dublin team in the image of Dublin/St Vincent's/Heffernan teams. They stopped players kissing crests, humility is the main characteritic of this current Dublin team. In 80s 90s 00s the Dublin swagger was the main characteristic of those teams.

Dublins sucess is so much down to Pat Gilroy and Jim Galvin. The same way Meaths sucess was down to Sean Boylan. Or Clares teams sucess was down to Loughnane. Or Man Utds sucess was down to Ferguson. Of course they had great players. But every team needs a great manager. Dubln have had two eg Gilroy and Galvin. The players had talent but remeber in 2009 and 2010 Meath hammered Dublin by 5 goals and kerry hammered Dublin by 17 points. On those Dublins team who were beaten by record scores were Bernard and Alan Brogan Cluxton McMahon Mcarthy Sullivan Maculey Flynn McMemanin Connolly Bastick. It was not til Gilroy and Galvin worked with these players and it took Gilroy 3 years to suceed.

2 The problem I have with finance arguement is when Dublin finances were been increased in late 00s, Cluxton Sullivan McMahon O Connell Connolly McMemanin Macauley Bastick Flynn Brogans Mcarthy were all on the Dublin senior team. You cannot say players the above development was down to finance when they just got on the team when increase in funds occurred. Callaghan and Fenton and future Dublin players will have come through in the period of increased funding, but these current players, no.

3 This seems to me to be a golden generation. Football goes in cycles. Dublin have a great every 40 or 50 years. Dublin had a great team in 1920s 1970s and this decade. I do believe we will see more frequent Dublin teams. Simlar to kerry. Kerry have a great team every second decade. Kerry have had great teams in 1930s, 1950s, 1970s early 80s, 00s and probaly in 2020s. Dublin should decline massively in the next decade. If they dont and continue to win three in a row or 6 All Irelands in 8 years in 2020s then finance is an issue. Finance is the reasons. Because no county in hurling and football produced their greatest team ever continued that sucess well into future. Any time a county had their greatest team. The following period they declined massively after that team broke up.

Corks hurlers greatest team was in 40s and 50s. The 60s was a poor period for Cork hurling. It was not till late 70s they produced another great team.

Tippearey greatest team was in 60s. The 70s was worst decade ever for Tipp..Tipp from 1972 to 1979 did not win a match in Munster. It was not til late 80s Tipp produced another great team

Kilkenny had their greatest team in 00s . Even under Cody kilkenny have declined since.

Limerick had their greatest team in 30s. limerick took 40 years before they ever won liam Mcarthy again.

Offaly had greatest sucess in 80s and 90s. Offaly went into massive decline after and have never recovered.

In football kerry had greatest team in late 70s early 80s. Kerry had its biggest famine afterwards. 11 years til they won Sam.

Dublin had a great team in 20s, they didnt win an All Ireland in 30s and went into decline afterwards.
Dublin had great sucess in 70s and early 80s. The next 30 years Dublin won 1 All Ireland.

Galway had their greatest/ most sucessful period with 4 Sams between 56 to 66. It took Galway 32 years to win Sam aftetwards.

Down had a great team in 90s. They havent won Ulster title sincs in 25 years.

Meath had their greatest team and most sucess in the 80s and 90s reaching 9 All Ireland finals including replays. Since Meath have declined and havent reached an All Ireland final in 19 years.

Offaly had their most sucessful period between 71 to 82 with 3 Sams. Offaly went into massive decline and never recovered.

Kildare had their greatest team/ most sucess in 1920s. kildare went into decline for 50 years after.

Louth had greatest team in 50s. They havent won Leinster title since .

Tyrone had their most successful period in 00s with 3 Sams. They havent won Sam.since.

Wexford had their most successful period in 1914 to 18. The county declined afterwards and never recovered.

So in summary every team in hurling or football who had their most successful period or greatest team went into decline in the years straight after that team broke up. Most have never really recovered. Dublin will recover. Dublin have always being strong. I can see a great Dublin team in 2030s. There is record number of youngsters in primary schools at the moment. Many in Dublin. They r watching Dublin win All-Ireland. In 2030s I can see players coming from that generation winning many Sams for Dublin.

Dublin should decline in 2020s especially in mid and late 20s. When Cluxton and Co retire. If Dublin dont then finances are the reason. For no team has ever continued with sucess after a great team broke up.

In the last 3 to 4 years at underage players coming through are in the period Dublin finance has occurred. Surely Dublin should be winning 5 minors not kerry. How come if Dublin have all this finance how come they were hammered by kildare in under 20 final and beaten by Meath at minor level 4 times in last 4 years in leinster minor championship. How come Wicklow defeated Dublin at minor level this year. Surely Dublin at underage should be hoovering up minor leinster and minor All-Irelands. These underage Dublin players will play senior in mid 20s and late 2020s. They are not as good as Connolly Cluxton and Co. I can see Dublin having a poor 2020s. I know people will not agree. But when Tipp won 4 All Irelands in 5 years in 60s no one predicted their decline afterwards. No one predicted in 86 after kerry won 8 All Irelands in 12 years , it would be 11 years again before kerry won Sam again.

Its very simple if Dublin win piles of All Irelands in 2020s especially in mid to late 2020s and that continues into 2030s , then finance is the reason. For that would mean unprecedented levels sucess in the GAA. Even kerry or kilkenny have not had that sort of sucess. But at the present it looks cyclical. Dublin just have a great team , great players and have achieved an incredible achievement.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 07/09/2018 20:13:40    2140227

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 07/09/2018 20:51:55    2140231

Dublin supporters. Welcome to Meath footballers Tyrone footballers and Clare hurlers world. There has been massive increase in criticism regards Dublin recently. This is very unusual. I cannot remember much or any criticism of the Dubs in 90s or 00s. They werent as sucessful of course. When Dublin won in 2011 there was alot of praise and people saw this as good thing. 7 years later the Dubs are being heavily criticised. I have a theory why?.

In the GAA world if anything new or unprecedented happens people are more likely to criticise. Let me explain. When kilkenny Tipp or Cork win liam Mcarthy or kerry Dublin Cork or Galway win Sam everything is rosey in GAA land. Any other county is nearly always criticised if they suceed. Anything unprecedented , outside the traditional top counties it gets more criticism. Well of course Dublin are a traditional county. When Dublin win 1 All Ireland there is no problem. But Dublin winning 6 in 8 years. That is unprecedented. When kilkenny or kerry win multiple All.Irelands there is little criticism. This is not new or unprecedented. People accept this.

Yes the Dubs are being treated unfairly. There is a definite difference in the way kilkenny or kerry or praised when they win multiple All.Irelands. The Dubs get criticised . The reason is say you are beaten by a team. You say Meath are to rough, Tyrone play puke football and underhand tactics Clare are to physical and Dublin have a money advantage. Then it gives a county an excuse. It like they were not beaten fairly. Its like they were not beaten at all. I dont know if that makes sense. But there is no doubt, people accept kilkenny and kerry winning 4 in a row. But not Dublin. The same way people accept kilkenny Tipp and Cork winning hurling titles, but not Clare.

Here is some examples
In late 80s Galway won 3 hurling titles. This was unprecedented for Galway. Galway were heavily criticised at the time for ruining hurling with their short passing possession game. 20 years later Cork won a two in a row with a more possession game. They were described as revolutionising the game and highly praised.

In late 90s Clare won 2 titles in 3 years. This was unprecedented for Clare. Clare were heavily criticised at the time for bringing to much physicality to the game of hurling. 10 years later kilkenny won 4 in a row bringing physicality to a level we had never seen before in hurling. They were called greatest team ever.

In 60s Down won 3 All-Irelands . This was unprecedented for Down and new. Down at the time were called upstarts. They were criticised at the time for ruining football by a playing a short passing possession game. In the next decade kerry and Dublin won All-Irelands with a more hand passing game. The Dubs and kerry were called grreatest teams ever.

In 1988 Meath won two in a row..This was unprecedented for Meath and new. In 88 final Meath were criticised and the final was criticised for being a rough match. It was a tough hard match between two big physical teams. Nothing more nothing less. 5 years earlier Dublin won an All-Ireland in the most violent final in Irish sporting history. The Dublin players were praised and called heroric and labeled the 12 Apostles.

In 00s Tyrone won 3 All-Irelands this was unprecedented. Tyrone had a defensive system with sweepers and blanket defence. There football was called puke football and they were criticised for underhand tactics eg sledging. Donegal won All All Ireland in 2012 with a more defensive system they were labelled as destroying gaelic football. Kerry in 2014 won an All-Ireland with a defensive system eg sweepers blanket defence. There was no criticism , they were praised.

Dublin won 6 All-Irelands in 8 years in this decade. This is unprecedented and new in the GAA world
.They are criticised about their finances and money buying All-Irelands. In 70s kerry won 8 Sams in 00s kilkenny won 6 All-Irelands they were not criticised at all.

So to Dublin supporters welcome to Meath Tyrone and Donegal footballers and Clare and Galway hurlers world. Any county that has unusual levels of sucess outside the norm are criticised in gaa land.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 07/09/2018 20:56:52    2140233

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 07/09/2018 21:01:31    2140234